YACT: The Big 3: Ford, GM, Chrysler, and the Economy Car

[blues008]

Hi all,

Had an interesting conversation with the mechanic this morning which is leading me to ask these questions:

Have Ford, GM, and Chrysler conceded the economy size car market to foreign car makers?

Is that market not profitable, or are they simply behind the curve and thus concentrating more on SUVs, trucks, and larger cars?

Will they come out with a car to compete with the Civic, Corolla, etc. in the near future? (The Ford Focus is one example, but that had quite a few recalls).

Thanks!
blues

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Isn't the Big Three now Nissan, GM, and Toyota?

- M4H

 

[MystikMango]

Ford has the Focus as you say.

In 06 I think Ford is rolling out a replacement car called the Futura. This will replace the Tarus and compete with the Accords and other mid-sized cars.

 

[vi edit]

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons they actually do continue to put out compact cars is to help offset milage to meet CAFE standards.

 

[Quixfire]

Doesn't GM make the caviler anymore?

 

[BCYL]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Isn't the Big Three now Nissan, GM, and Toyota?

- M4H

No I think it's GM, Toyota and Ford... Nissan is not there yet

 

[LordThing]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
Doesn't GM make the caviler anymore?

I think they are moving to a new car. This might be the last year for the Cav

 

[Tipe2]

Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

 

This has been covered a million times by a million other similar threads.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Tipe2
Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

Thought it was based off the "Opel" platform they hauled over from their Euro section? Cobalt is going to cost more as well.

And then there's the Aveo, which just plain sucks.

- M4H

 

[jjessico]

Originally posted by: BCYL

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Isn't the Big Three now Nissan, GM, and Toyota?

- M4H

No I think it's GM, Toyota and Ford... Nissan is not there yet

Do you have numbers to backup putting Toyota in there?

 

[BigSmooth]

No, they're not conceding it at all. Ford has already created a new global platform for the Focus called the C1 which we are already seeing here in the Mazda 3 and new Volvo S40. They are rolling out the new Focus in Europe first because small cars have a larger percentage of the market over there and (I'm guessing) they want to make sure they do not have the same recall fiasco in the U.S. as they did last time.
The C1 platform seems to have excellent driving dynamics from what we've seen so far.

GM is also hard at work in this department. Their "Delta" platform has already spawned the Saturn Ion, and it also underpins the Cavalier replacement, the Cobalt. The Cobalt is NOT related to the Cavalier in any way and it appears to be a much more competitive product on paper. The Ion has been something of a failure so far but hopefully GM learned from it and we'll see if the Cobalt is a better car. They've also got the "Kappa" platform which sounds like it will be for smaller performance vehicles such as the Pontiac Solstice and possibly new coupes from Saturn, Chevy, or Saab. They're also getting into the uber-cheap subcompact market with rebadged Daewoos, which is a little disappointing.

I don't know what's going on with Daimler Chrysler. Rumors abound regarding a Neon replacement and a possibly a new small car for Chrysler, but we haven't seen any real concepts etc. Right now it seems like they are just trying to spruce up their small car lineup with variants like the Neon SRT-4 and the PT convertible. But I'm sure we'll see something from them soon.

Anyway, in regards to the original question, I don't think the domestics are going to let this class get away from them completely. Even though the profit margins are slim, it's still an important segment because it introduces many young people to your brand. They might have ignored it for too long to make more SUV cash cows (especially GM) but now it seems they are jumping back into the fray.

 

[RU482]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tipe2
Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

Thought it was based off the "Opel" platform they hauled over from their Euro section? Cobalt is going to cost more as well.

And then there's the Aveo, which just plain sucks.

- M4H

Aveo is something that they salvaged from the Deawoo aquisition, IIRC

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: redly1

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tipe2
Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

Thought it was based off the "Opel" platform they hauled over from their Euro section? Cobalt is going to cost more as well.

And then there's the Aveo, which just plain sucks.

- M4H

Aveo is something that they salvaged from the Deawoo aquisition, IIRC

"If you can't sell it, rebadge it!"

I'm aware that of the Daewoo -> Aveo shift, but I'm just unsure on the origins of the Cobalt. Is it a new platform, or just an imported-from-overseas-and-rebadged model?

- M4H

 

[shenaniganz]

Originally posted by: jjessico

Originally posted by: BCYL

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Isn't the Big Three now Nissan, GM, and Toyota?

- M4H

No I think it's GM, Toyota and Ford... Nissan is not there yet

Do you have numbers to backup putting Toyota in there?

I read an article a couple weeks ago that Toyota just eclipsed Ford in total auto sales. I think it was a Yahoo news article.

Edit: Here's the Link

 

[iamwiz82]

The new Neon will be a shared platform with the Lancer. With the possibility of a crossover hatchback as well.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: redly1

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tipe2
Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

Thought it was based off the "Opel" platform they hauled over from their Euro section? Cobalt is going to cost more as well.

And then there's the Aveo, which just plain sucks.

- M4H

Aveo is something that they salvaged from the Deawoo aquisition, IIRC

"If you can't sell it, rebadge it!"

I'm aware that of the Daewoo -> Aveo shift, but I'm just unsure on the origins of the Cobalt. Is it a new platform, or just an imported-from-overseas-and-rebadged model?

- M4H

I know my post is kind of long, but read the second paragraph.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: BigSmooth

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: redly1

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tipe2
Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

Thought it was based off the "Opel" platform they hauled over from their Euro section? Cobalt is going to cost more as well.

And then there's the Aveo, which just plain sucks.

- M4H

Aveo is something that they salvaged from the Deawoo aquisition, IIRC

"If you can't sell it, rebadge it!"

I'm aware that of the Daewoo -> Aveo shift, but I'm just unsure on the origins of the Cobalt. Is it a new platform, or just an imported-from-overseas-and-rebadged model?

- M4H

I know my post is kind of long, but read the second paragraph.

Thought it was a whole new car, but "Opel+GM+European Source" keeps ringing a bell for me for some reason, dammit. Maybe it's the Malibu's new platform?

- M4H

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: BigSmooth

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: redly1

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tipe2
Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

Thought it was based off the "Opel" platform they hauled over from their Euro section? Cobalt is going to cost more as well.

And then there's the Aveo, which just plain sucks.

- M4H

Aveo is something that they salvaged from the Deawoo aquisition, IIRC

"If you can't sell it, rebadge it!"

I'm aware that of the Daewoo -> Aveo shift, but I'm just unsure on the origins of the Cobalt. Is it a new platform, or just an imported-from-overseas-and-rebadged model?

- M4H

I know my post is kind of long, but read the second paragraph.

Thought it was a whole new car, but "Opel+GM+European Source" keeps ringing a bell for me for some reason, dammit. Maybe it's the Malibu's new platform?

- M4H

You're not far off. Opel is one of GM's European nameplates and I believe that is where the Delta platform was engineered. Opel came out with a Delta-based version of the Astra not long after the Ion debuted.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: BigSmooth
You're not far off. Opel is one of GM's European nameplates and I believe that is where the Delta platform was engineered. Opel came out with a Delta-based version of the Astra not long after the Ion debuted.

Guess I just suck @ teh Domestics then. Thanks for clearing that up. :beer:

- M4H

 

[Cfour]

Originally posted by: Tipe2
Last year for the Cavalier, next year they will introduce the Cobalt which coincidently is based on the Cavalier platform.

You're right about the Cobalt name, but not about the platform. The Cobalt will be based off of the Delta platform, currently under the Ion here in the US. There will be more cars to follow. I'm more excited about GM's new smaller, RWD platform that they just announced (Zeta? I believe.) It's said to be under the Camaro replacement for 2007 or so, and the GTO refresh in a few years.

Tony