YACT: "self-learning" auto tranny's?

[LocutusX]

Hey all,

While doing some car shopping on the weekend, I was trying out two different (used) 2002 Civic EX sedans both with auto. During the test drive I took them both down straightaways and applied a fair amount of pressure to the throttle, without flooring it. What I noticed was that the first one seemed to rev until ~5000rpm before upshifting, while the second one upshifted at ~4000rpm.

Why would there be a difference? Someone mentioned that auto tranny's from 2000+ cars are usually "self-learning" meaning they adapt to the style of the driver. If this is true, then how would I get the cars to "un-learn" if I bought it, since I would want the car to adapt to *my* style?

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: LocutusX
Hey all,

While doing some car shopping on the weekend, I was trying out two different (used) 2002 Civic EX sedans both with auto. During the test drive I took them both down straightaways and applied a fair amount of pressure to the throttle, without flooring it. What I noticed was that the first one seemed to rev until ~5000rpm before upshifting, while the second one upshifted at ~4000rpm.

Why would there be a difference? Someone mentioned that auto tranny's from 2000+ cars are usually "self-learning" meaning they adapt to the style of the driver. If this is true, then how would I get the cars to "un-learn" if I bought it, since I would want the car to adapt to *my* style?

On alot of autos if you put it right to the floor automatically shift up, and if you take your foot off the gas shift down.

You do excercise a certain amount of control over gear shifting even in an auto.

 

[woowoo]

Originally posted by: LocutusX
If this is true, then how would I get the cars to "un-learn" if I bought it, since I would want the car to adapt to *my* style?

Yank the battery cable for 20-30 min.......

 

[notfred]

I'm pretty sure that no one's putting neural networks in automatic transmissions. Can you show ANY evidence at all that any transmission in any production car does this? I highly doubt that any of them do.

 

[radioouman]

Yes, they do learn how you drive. I used to drive my 2000 Saturn like a Grandma around town, and it shifted at a very low rpm, and it held a gear almost too long before it would downshift.

Chrysler's transmissions have been learning how you drive since the late 1980s. I don't know about the other brands.

 

[Mermaidman]

I noticed this in our Mazda Tribute (Ford Escape clone). When new, the sucker would be hunting for a comfortable gear on the highwaa. After about a month, it seemed to have adapted. Or did I adapt to it?! :Q

 

[DaTT]

I saw the word "Tranny's" and then saw the word YACT....although I guess the "C" could stand for something else.

 

[quakefiend420]

my dad's 99 528i does this

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: notfred
I'm pretty sure that no one's putting neural networks in automatic transmissions. Can you show ANY evidence at all that any transmission in any production car does this? I highly doubt that any of them do.

That's where you would be wrong. Many upscale cars (Not necessarily 00+) have been doing this. The computer monitors the pressure to know when most of the shifting occurs. It then uses those samples to change shift points, since they are changed by solenoids to allow hydraulic pressure to change the gears.

 

[DaTT]

Originally posted by: RyanSengara

Originally posted by: LocutusX
Hey all,

While doing some car shopping on the weekend, I was trying out two different (used) 2002 Civic EX sedans both with auto. During the test drive I took them both down straightaways and applied a fair amount of pressure to the throttle, without flooring it. What I noticed was that the first one seemed to rev until ~5000rpm before upshifting, while the second one upshifted at ~4000rpm.

Why would there be a difference? Someone mentioned that auto tranny's from 2000+ cars are usually "self-learning" meaning they adapt to the style of the driver. If this is true, then how would I get the cars to "un-learn" if I bought it, since I would want the car to adapt to *my* style?

On alot of autos if you put it right to the floor automatically shift up, and if you take your foot off the gas shift down.

You do excercise a certain amount of control over gear shifting even in an auto.

You got your upshifts and your downshifts reversed.

 

[deadlyapp]

Originally posted by: RyanSengara

Originally posted by: LocutusX
Hey all,

While doing some car shopping on the weekend, I was trying out two different (used) 2002 Civic EX sedans both with auto. During the test drive I took them both down straightaways and applied a fair amount of pressure to the throttle, without flooring it. What I noticed was that the first one seemed to rev until ~5000rpm before upshifting, while the second one upshifted at ~4000rpm.

Why would there be a difference? Someone mentioned that auto tranny's from 2000+ cars are usually "self-learning" meaning they adapt to the style of the driver. If this is true, then how would I get the cars to "un-learn" if I bought it, since I would want the car to adapt to *my* style?

On alot of autos if you put it right to the floor automatically shift up, and if you take your foot off the gas shift down.

You do excercise a certain amount of control over gear shifting even in an auto.

I think you have it backwards Ryan. I know that in our Hyundai santa fe, 01', if i mash the gas, it will drop it one to two gears and ride the gear to around 6k then shift. As soon as I let off the gas it will shift again to keep RPMS lower.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy

Originally posted by: notfred
I'm pretty sure that no one's putting neural networks in automatic transmissions. Can you show ANY evidence at all that any transmission in any production car does this? I highly doubt that any of them do.

That's where you would be wrong. Many upscale cars (Not necessarily 00+) have been doing this. The computer monitors the pressure to know when most of the shifting occurs. It then uses those samples to change shift points, since they are changed by solenoids to allow hydraulic pressure to change the gears.

That doesn't even make sense. What does the computer monitor pressure on? These are all electronic transmissions, the computer is what is causing the shift, why would it have to monitor anything to know when the transmission shifts?

And I see absolutely no reason why shift points should change based on a driver's habits. Shift points are a function of how far the accelerator is depressed, and that's about it. Explain what would be improved by having it set based on driver preference.

 

[spidey07]

yep, many automatic transmissions will learn the drivers habits and adjust accordingly.

 

[rbrandon]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy

Originally posted by: notfred
I'm pretty sure that no one's putting neural networks in automatic transmissions. Can you show ANY evidence at all that any transmission in any production car does this? I highly doubt that any of them do.

That's where you would be wrong. Many upscale cars (Not necessarily 00+) have been doing this. The computer monitors the pressure to know when most of the shifting occurs. It then uses those samples to change shift points, since they are changed by solenoids to allow hydraulic pressure to change the gears.

That doesn't even make sense. What does the computer monitor pressure on? These are all electronic transmissions, the computer is what is causing the shift, why would it have to monitor anything to know when the transmission shifts?

And I see absolutely no reason why shift points should change based on a driver's habits. Shift points are a function of how far the accelerator is depressed, and that's about it. Explain what would be improved by having it set based on driver preference.

so because it doesnt make sense in your little world, it doesnt exist? look up cadillac and PAS (performance algorithm shifting) my 99 seville has it, it runs off of 4 accelerometers on each wheel of the car

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy

Originally posted by: notfred
I'm pretty sure that no one's putting neural networks in automatic transmissions. Can you show ANY evidence at all that any transmission in any production car does this? I highly doubt that any of them do.

That's where you would be wrong. Many upscale cars (Not necessarily 00+) have been doing this. The computer monitors the pressure to know when most of the shifting occurs. It then uses those samples to change shift points, since they are changed by solenoids to allow hydraulic pressure to change the gears.

That doesn't even make sense. What does the computer monitor pressure on? These are all electronic transmissions, the computer is what is causing the shift, why would it have to monitor anything to know when the transmission shifts?

And I see absolutely no reason why shift points should change based on a driver's habits. Shift points are a function of how far the accelerator is depressed, and that's about it. Explain what would be improved by having it set based on driver preference.

The transmission line pressure perhaps? The computer monitors that as well as throttle position, vehicle speed, engine speed, engine load to determine shift points. And yes, there are many cars that have computers that learn driving style. See here for an example.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: rbrandon
so because it doesnt make sense in your little world, it doesnt exist? look up cadillac and PAS (performance algorithm shifting) my 99 seville has it, it runs off of 4 accelerometers on each wheel of the car

I didn't say "it doesn't exist", I just said that I personally didn't think that it did. I could have been, and very well may be wrong.

Oh, and if your car uses wheel acceleration as the basis for shifting, then it's not adapting to your driving style, it's just using some function of wheel acceleration.

The buick transmissiont hat Heisenberg posted says it adapts to your driving style, but it doesn't actually say anything about how it works.

 

[CraigRT]

manual trans FTW! 😛

 

[Ryan]

Hell - my 1989 Maxima did this.

 

[KillyKillall]

Where are the tranny's?

 

[squirrel dog]

Not likely.Best thing to do is steady and slow untill you can get the hang of it.

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: rbrandon
so because it doesnt make sense in your little world, it doesnt exist? look up cadillac and PAS (performance algorithm shifting) my 99 seville has it, it runs off of 4 accelerometers on each wheel of the car

I didn't say "it doesn't exist", I just said that I personally didn't think that it did. I could have been, and very well may be wrong.

Oh, and if your car uses wheel acceleration as the basis for shifting, then it's not adapting to your driving style, it's just using some function of wheel acceleration.

The buick transmissiont hat Heisenberg posted says it adapts to your driving style, but it doesn't actually say anything about how it works.

Well how the hell do you think it monitors what the car is doing? Psychic powers? It uses input from the various sensors to determine what your "style" is.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: CraigRT
manual trans FTW! 😛

Yep it only shifts when you tell it to, don't need no steenking computers.

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy

Originally posted by: notfred
I'm pretty sure that no one's putting neural networks in automatic transmissions. Can you show ANY evidence at all that any transmission in any production car does this? I highly doubt that any of them do.

That's where you would be wrong. Many upscale cars (Not necessarily 00+) have been doing this. The computer monitors the pressure to know when most of the shifting occurs. It then uses those samples to change shift points, since they are changed by solenoids to allow hydraulic pressure to change the gears.

That doesn't even make sense. What does the computer monitor pressure on? These are all electronic transmissions, the computer is what is causing the shift, why would it have to monitor anything to know when the transmission shifts?

And I see absolutely no reason why shift points should change based on a driver's habits. Shift points are a function of how far the accelerator is depressed, and that's about it. Explain what would be improved by having it set based on driver preference.

First two reasons were explained in previous posts. I didn't say it was a great idea, I'm a big fan of KISS. But electronics are still good in cars to make them more efficient. Just because something doesn't make sense doesn't mean it is not a fact...
Brake by wire is going to be the next big thing, I think that is kind of scary myself, but they will do it to increase performance. (Or maybe gee-whiz factor *big repair bill*) Time will tell.

 

[LocutusX]

Originally posted by: notfred
The buick transmissiont hat Heisenberg posted says it adapts to your driving style, but it doesn't actually say anything about how it works.

I actually share your skepticism, notfred. That's why I posted this thread.

I'm trying to find out if this is a real feature that actually existed on the previous-generation Civic, and if so - how to notify the "engine computer" that there's a new driver on board and that it needs to forget how the previous old woman drove the car...

Someone said yank the battery cable for a bit... I guess that makes sense, unless there's a lithium battery connected to the car electronics for "backup purposes" 😛

 

[kami333]

Originally posted by: LocutusX

Originally posted by: notfred
The buick transmissiont hat Heisenberg posted says it adapts to your driving style, but it doesn't actually say anything about how it works.

I actually share your skepticism, notfred. That's why I posted this thread.

I'm trying to find out if this is a real feature that actually existed on the previous-generation Civic, and if so - how to notify the "engine computer" that there's a new driver on board and that it needs to forget how the previous old woman drove the car...

It'll adapt in a month or so. Or like previously suggested, pull the battery and let the electronics reset.