YACT: Oil and Air Filter

[LuckyTaxi]

I have a 1998 Millenia S (supercharger).

I avoid Fram at all cost and buy the Puralator oil filter. I've been using Pennzoil 5w-30 all year round, but I've been reading and people say to use the thicker oil (10w-30) during the summer time. Yes/no?

Regarding the air filter, is the Fram brand really that bad? I avoid their oil filters, but what about their air filter? I purchased the Puralator air filter, and it was rather cheap. I would rather spend more money on quality than price.

 

[Insane3D]

My two cents...

First, for the oil filter, Purolator is fine, but I would avoid Fram's normal oil filters. They make some high end one that are nicer, but they are a bit harder to find. The Mobil1 and Amsoil filters are supposed to be the best, but they are pricier.

As for your oils, 5W-30 and 10W-30 are really almost the same, with the only difference really being the 5W's improved low temperature ability....during the summer the difference should be no big deal.

For air filters, I'm really not sure. I imagine there is not a lot of difference between the Fram's and say Purolator.



Edit:

<--waits for Eli

 

[LuckyTaxi]

I got the supercharger, so I'm not sure if buying the cheapest one will degrade the performance of my engine.

 

[Vette73]

There is not much Diff. between most paper filters. When yoiu buy one juts look at the pleats toi make sure there are no major gaps or tears.


As for oil where do you live? I live in North Carolina so I run 10w30 year round. I would also recomemnd using Mobil1 10w30 (or 5w30) since you have the supercharger.

 

[LuckyTaxi]

I'm in Pennsylvania.

I'm going to switch to Mobil1 for my next oil change. I went from Quaker State and then I had the dealer change my oil and they used Pennzoil.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: lilcam
I'm in Pennsylvania.

I'm going to switch to Mobil1 for my next oil change. I went from Quaker State and then I had the dealer change my oil and they used Pennzoil.

OK, PA does get colder then NC so 5W30 Mobil1 you need to run in the winter. If you drive really hard in the summer then you could use 10W30 in the warmer parts of summer, but juts make sure to stick to 5w30 in the winter.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
My two cents...

First, for the oil filter, Purolator is fine, but I would avoid Fram's normal oil filters. They make some high end one that are nicer, but they are a bit harder to find. The Mobil1 and Amsoil filters are supposed to be the best, but they are pricier.

As for your oils, 5W-30 and 10W-30 are really almost the same, with the only difference really being the 5W's improved low temperature ability....during the summer the difference should be no big deal.

For air filters, I'm really not sure. I imagine there is not a lot of difference between the Fram's and say Purolator.



Edit:

<--waits for Eli

PureOne filters are good. You can safely stick with them. Mobil1 filters are good too. I'd also like to add that if you're a cheapass, SuperTech filters are probably the best bang for your buck.

As he says, 5W-30 isn't a lower viscosity than 10W-30. They're both 30-weight oils. The xW number is an arbitrary number assigned based on the oils performance at a very low temperature(around -25ºF). If the oil scores a certain viscosity or better at the specified temperature, it can be labeled 0W, 5W, etc.

If you never see low temperatures, there is no real reason to use a 5W-30 as he says. I have noticed that it seems overall, 10W-30 oils are more shear stable than 5W-30. Of course this depends on the brand.

Also, I agree with Marlin; switch to synthetic. With the 'charger, its worth it.

As for air filters.. I don't really have any definitive knowledge, other than AMSOil's filters are supposed to be good. I'd really like some real-world data, though. Avoid K&amp;N air filters, since it seems you are concerned about the longevity of your car, and not gaining a few horses.

Fortunately, Pennzoil makes decent conventional oils.

 

[LuckyTaxi]

Also, I agree with Marlin; switch to synthetic. With the 'charger, its worth it.

Synthetic is NOT recommended for my car. Dealers and users of my car brand have said that synthetic shouldnt be used.

AMSOil's filters are supposed to be good.

Where can I find AMSOIL? I can't find it around my way. Maybe I didnt bother looking around in pepboys or autozone.

since it seems you are concerned about the longevity of your car, and not gaining a few horses.

A few more horse power wouldnt hurt

Fortunately, Pennzoil makes decent conventional oils.

I hope so. Everyone swears by Mobil1 though so I'll give it a try.

Now I gotta figure out why i only get around 200 miles on a tank of gas!

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: lilcam

Also, I agree with Marlin; switch to synthetic. With the 'charger, its worth it.

Synthetic is NOT recommended for my car. Dealers and users of my car brand have said that synthetic shouldnt be used.

AMSOil's filters are supposed to be good.

Where can I find AMSOIL? I can't find it around my way. Maybe I didnt bother looking around in pepboys or autozone.

since it seems you are concerned about the longevity of your car, and not gaining a few horses.

A few more horse power wouldnt hurt

Fortunately, Pennzoil makes decent conventional oils.

I hope so. Everyone swears by Mobil1 though so I'll give it a try.

Now I gotta figure out why i only get around 200 miles on a tank of gas!

If you're going to switch to Mobil1, you're going to be using synthetic.

Whoever told you that synthetic "wasn't recommended" for your car is just stupid. Why, exactly? Doesen't make any sense, unless it is an older car(like, from the 70s).

Most local places don't carry AMSOil products. You have to order from their website.

 

[DurocShark]

Just switch to synthetic and you won't need to worry about summer/winter oils.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Just switch to synthetic and you won't need to worry about summer/winter oils.

I basically agree, but it is bad practice and bad advice to give to someone that doesen't fully understand oils. They might get the wrong idea and use a 20W-50 synthetic in the winter.

 

The reason why you should not use Synthetic oil in older vehicles (generally vehicles made prior to 1988) is due to the fact that these older vehicles do not use modern seals throughout the engine, synthetic oil contains long chain molecules which will work their way past the older type of seals thus causing oil leaks.

 

[LuckyTaxi]

oh ok ... the mobil1 is synthetic. Hmmmm ... re-read the thread on another board and a lot of ppl do use mobil1 on their cars. Someone pointed out mazda didnt recommend using synthetic. Then again mazda told me I needed a new supercharger for my oil leak?! Cost me $120 to fix the o-rings and it's been fine ever since.

Which brand is semi synthetic?

If i use synthetic I should still change every 3k miles correct?
I think I'll stick with 5w-30 year round?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Roger
The reason why you should not use Synthetic oil in older vehicles (generally vehicles made prior to 1988) is due to the fact that these older vehicles do not use modern seals throughout the engine, synthetic oil contains long chain molecules which will work their way past the older type of seals thus causing oil leaks.

Exactly. But his automobile is a '98, so there should be no concerns.

Everybody should be recommending synthetic since it's boosted....

Originally posted by: lilcam
oh ok ... the mobil1 is synthetic. Hmmmm ... re-read the thread on another board and a lot of ppl do use mobil1 on their cars. Someone pointed out mazda didnt recommend using synthetic. Then again mazda told me I needed a new supercharger for my oil leak?! Cost me $120 to fix the o-rings and it's been fine ever since.

Which brand is semi synthetic?

If i use synthetic I should still change every 3k miles correct?
I think I'll stick with 5w-30 year round?

Mobil1 is synthetic. Mobil(no 1) is non-synthetic, and I don't really recommend their conventional oils.

There's nothing wrong with sticking to 5W-30 year round.

Change your oil as often as you feel necessary. Mobil1 is perfectly capable of going longer than 3,000 miles, though. I recommend sticking to the "Severe" service schedule in your manual; probably 3750 miles.

There are many brands of synthetic blends. They are indeed better than most conventional oils, but I don't really think its worth it. Just pay a little more and go full syn.

 

Semi-synthetic is worthless, the reason you should use full synthetic is because it will not break down until it hits around 550F and it does not contain waxes or impurities as conventional motor oil does.

Exactly. But his automobile is a '98, so there should be no concerns.

I know that Eli, I am just stating facts for the uninformed.

 

[LuckyTaxi]

Not saying I dont trust anyone or anything like that.
Here's a board I frequently visit, but they are slow on posting.

Link

 

I am curious as to how many of those people posting on that board are auto techs.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Roger
Semi-synthetic is worthless, the reason you should use full synthetic is because it will not break down until it hits around 550F and it does not contain waxes or impurities as conventional motor oil does.

Exactly. But his automobile is a '98, so there should be no concerns.

I know that Eli, I am just stating facts for the uninformed.

I know, I was just reiterating the fact.

Just being nitpicky, but there are very few synthetic oils that have a 550ºF flash point, unfortunately. Infact, there are very few oils period that have flash points over 500ºF. Many of the ultra-premium synthetics have flash points in the ~450ºF range, and they are still able to perform excellent, with astoundingly low volatility &amp; boil off. I've kinda inferred this to mean that FP isn't as important as many of the other specs, especially in water cooled engines.

Most of the oils meant for air-cooled motorcycles, like Mobil1 V-Twin, have the highest flash points; 518ºF in the case of Mobil1 V-Twin.

Mobil Delvac 1350 straight 50 weight has the highest flash point of any oil I've found thus far, 554ºF, but you wouldn't want to be using that unless your automobile calls for a 50 weight and you live in AZ or NM or something.

The mono-grade oils almost universally have much better temperature stability than multigrade oils, which makes sense.

Of course, most conventional oils have flash points in the low 400s, some even below 400(!), so there is some obvious benefits from moving to synthetic as far as temperature stability goes.

 

Noticed that I stated "break down" and not "flash point" Eli.

Do you know the difference between the two ?

By the way, conventional motor oil begins to break down at 280F.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Roger
Noticed that I stated "break down" and not "flash point" Eli.

Do you know the difference between the two ?

By the way, conventional motor oil begins to break down at 280F.

Hmmm.

I guess I don't? Flash point is the only spec that is specified relating to temperature stability(besides sometimes Fire Point), so it's the only thing I have to go on. Flash point is the highest temperature the oil can withstand before vaporizing, so I'm not sure exactly what you mean. It's basically the limit of the oil. If you're above the flash point, the oil is definately already "breaking down", so obviously the flash point can't be lower than the "break down" point.

You have to remember that there are vast differences between each brand and each grade of oil, it is bad practice to make general statements like the above. There are ultra-refined conventional oils that can legally be called synthetic since they are so pure. I wish I knew which they were, but I guess it doesen't really matter as long as it lives up to its specs.

 

Actually the correct word for this is oil breakdown due to shear forces. An internal combustion engine imparts high shear forces on a motor oil, which is sandwiched between two rotating or sliding forces under load and heat. The molecular structure is essentially torn apart by these mechanical shear forces.

The component of the oil that is affected most by these shear forces is the viscosity improvers. These viscosity improvers allow the manufacturer of the oil to create multi-grade oils suitable for a wider temperature range of operation. The end result of these shear forces is a decrease in the viscosity of the oil as well as a decrease in the viscosity index.

Once a motor oil has sheared beyond a specific point it will not revert back to it?s base structure when it cools down and the shear forces have ceased. Keep in mind also that I am referring to petroleum oils only, Synthetic motor oils are extremely resistant to the detrimental effects of shear forces.

Flash point is the temp at which the oil begins to release volatile gasses which is to say it will oxidize (burn).


Terminolgy is everything in my business Eli

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Roger
Actually the correct word for this is oil breakdown due to shear forces. An internal combustion engine imparts high shear forces on a motor oil, which is sandwiched between two rotating or sliding forces under load and heat. The molecular structure is essentially torn apart by these mechanical shear forces.

The component of the oil that is affected most by these shear forces is the viscosity improvers. These viscosity improvers allow the manufacturer of the oil to create multi-grade oils suitable for a wider temperature range of operation. The end result of these shear forces is a decrease in the viscosity of the oil as well as a decrease in the viscosity index.

Once a motor oil has sheared beyond a specific point it will not revert back to it?s base structure when it cools down and the shear forces have ceased. Keep in mind also that I am referring to petroleum oils only, Synthetic motor oils are extremely resistant to the detrimental effects of shear forces.

Flash point is the temp at which the oil begins to release volatile gasses which is to say it will oxidize (burn).


Terminolgy is everything in my business Eli

You're exactly right about the Flash Point, and I was going to edit my post to be more technically correct.

And yes, shear stability is more important than flash point, since the shear stability is a measure of how well your oil is going to maintain its viscosity while in use. Not much point in a 30 weight oil if it is going to thin out to a 20 weight after a few thousand miles.

Most manufacturers don't specify their High Temp/High Shear specification, synthetic or petroleum, so you're left to assume it's the minimum, which is unfortunate.

Shear is one of the main reasons I dislike 20 weight oils. The minimum HT/HS shear spec for xW-20 is 2.60. The minimum for 0W-30 through 10W-40 is 2.90.

The minimum for 15W-40 is 3.70. That's a huge difference, and one of the main reason why I chose to use Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 in the Camry &amp; truck this summer; It's a petroleum oil, but it has one of the best HT/HS scores of any 40 weight oil, 4.40. :Q

There are 30 weight oils that have excellent shear stability, though. It's about the only good thing about Castrol GTX 10W-30; it scores 3.10.

It sucks that there are cheap synthetic oils. They have the potential to give good synthetics a bad name, since they're only marginally better than only the bottom of the barrel conventional oils.

Your oil knowledge impresses me. I've found that many mechanics wouldn't know engine oil from 3-in-1 oil, and they continue to propagate many of the myths associated with oil. I applaud you for keeping up with the times &amp; educating yourself thoroughly.

 

Your oil knowledge impresses me. I've found that many mechanics wouldn't know engine oil from 3-in-1 oil, and they continue to propagate many of the myths associated with oil. I applaud you for keeping up with the times &amp; educating yourself thoroughly.

I am not a mechanic Eli, I am a automotive technician.

Mechanic = a person who wrenches for a living.

Automotive Technician = An educated diagnostician who wrenches for a living.

Thanks for the compliment anyway

 

[jlee]

I use a K&amp;N air filter, Mobil1 oil, and Fram oil filters...144k, and it still runs fine. =)

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Roger

Your oil knowledge impresses me. I've found that many mechanics wouldn't know engine oil from 3-in-1 oil, and they continue to propagate many of the myths associated with oil. I applaud you for keeping up with the times &amp; educating yourself thoroughly.

I am not a mechanic Eli, I am a automotive technician.

Mechanic = a person who wrenches for a living.

Automotive Technician = An educated diagnostician who wrenches for a living.

Thanks for the compliment anyway

Duly noted.

You're exactly right though. Infact, many "mechanics" can hardly be considered such.. lol.

I wish I had more hands on experience. But that will come with time, I suppose.