YACT: Lambda sensor question: Do they break easily?

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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It seems that there may have been some faulty gas delivered to a large number of filling stations near London.

There have been thousands of complaints to local Trading Standards offices about the quality of fuel received. Many have claimed that within a few miles of filling up, cars started running extremely rough, lost power, started knocking, and the emissions warning light came on. Many eventually stalled and were unable to restart.

Dozens of cars ended up having to be towed, or taken to garages for investigation. The common problem seems to have been faulty lambda sensors. Replacement of the sensor is very variable in price, but unlikely to be less than £150. Premium model dealers (e.g. Mercedes Benz) have been charging as much as £2000 ($4000) to replace the damaged sensor.

Of course, that's if the car can be repaired. For some popular models of car, garages have been unable to repair the car because both they have run out of sensors. Indeed, even major parts distributors have run out of the sensors, and in some cases may be unable to supply them for up to 2 weeks.

News story Note - some of the above information has been collated from other sources.

I've never heard of anything like this before - mass vehicle damage due to faulty fuel. Indeed, it's not yet been confirmed that the fuel was faulty (preliminary reports from the supermarkets allegedly selling the faulty fuel are reported to have passed quality checks). Results of official testing by Trading Standards officers is expected in the next few days.

Has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?
Are lambda sensors so easily damaged? I knew catalysts were, hence the need for lambda sensors, but this is the first time I've heard of fuel contamination causing damage.
What sort of contaminants might destroy sensors?
Is there something else going on, as I wouldn't expect a faulty lambda sensor to cause stalling, and failure to start?

Update - Preliminary reports are suggesting the presence of abnormal levels of silicon in the suspect fuel. It's thought that this is due to contamination with silicones - additives commonly used in Diesel fuel as foam inhibitors.

However, when burned, silicones produce silicon dioxide. In the case of gasoline engines, the silicon dioxide crystalises on the lambda sensor, destroying its surface.

The source of the contamination is not yet known, however, one scenario being investigated is that the wrong fuel additive package was added at the depot.

 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Yup, a lambda probe is the european term for an O2 sensor. (Some early Volvos sold in the US are actually badged as "Lambda-Sond" to denote that they have a catalytic converter and oxygen sensor.)

The sensors are easily damaged by impurities in fuel, but typically last 75,000-100,000 miles. In my experience in the US, most cost around $50 (US), though some are almost $200 (again, US). I've never seen a $4,000 O2 sensor. That's robery, pure and simple.

ZV
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Yup, a lambda probe is the european term for an O2 sensor. (Some early Volvos sold in the US are actually badged as "Lambda-Sond" to denote that they have a catalytic converter and oxygen sensor.)

The sensors are easily damaged by impurities in fuel, but typically last 75,000-100,000 miles. In my experience in the US, most cost around $50 (US), though some are almost $200 (again, US). I've never seen a $4,000 O2 sensor. That's robery, pure and simple.

ZV

For my car I remember looking up the price and it was $70-92. And I have four of them.

...and it's a Dodge. So not even premium make. Replacing all four would run about $300 just for parts from Napa, from a dealer it'd be about twice that. Add in diagnostics and labor and I can see a high end car hitting $1k easily.

...$4k is a rip.

*notes that Dodge corporate refunded his dad some money after a dealership ripped him off when he complained about it*
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Yup, a lambda probe is the european term for an O2 sensor. (Some early Volvos sold in the US are actually badged as "Lambda-Sond" to denote that they have a catalytic converter and oxygen sensor.)

The sensors are easily damaged by impurities in fuel, but typically last 75,000-100,000 miles. In my experience in the US, most cost around $50 (US), though some are almost $200 (again, US). I've never seen a $4,000 O2 sensor. That's robery, pure and simple.

ZV
For my car I remember looking up the price and it was $70-92. And I have four of them.

...and it's a Dodge. So not even premium make. Replacing all four would run about $300 just for parts from Napa, from a dealer it'd be about twice that. Add in diagnostics and labor and I can see a high end car hitting $1k easily.

...$4k is a rip.

*notes that Dodge corporate refunded his dad some money after a dealership ripped him off when he complained about it*
Diagnostics is reading the OBD codes with a scanner. 5 minutes. Doesn't matter what car it is.

Unless there are extenuating circumstances (the sensor is rusted into place or similar), replacement with a shop lift should run no more than 30 minutes each and that's including the time to get the car up on the lift.

Even with 4 sensors (pretty much the maximum number, usually one upstream and one downstream of each cat in a modern car, so 2 for a single exhaust, 4 for a dual exhaust, and 3 for a 2-into-1 exhaust like a vee engine with a single outlet) and an expensive sensor, you're looking at $800 in sensors and a max of $200 in labor. Not cheap, but a far cry from $4,000. Anything over $1,500 would have be hugely suspiscious.

ZV
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Even with 4 sensors (pretty much the maximum number, usually one upstream and one downstream of each cat in a modern car, so 2 for a single exhaust, 4 for a dual exhaust, and 3 for a 2-into-1 exhaust like a vee engine with a single outlet) and an expensive sensor, you're looking at $800 in sensors and a max of $200 in labor. Not cheap, but a far cry from $4,000. Anything over $1,500 would have be hugely suspiscious.

ZV
Heh. Maybe in Britain we're used to getting robbed daily.

Labor particularly. I know that, around London, BWM and MB dealers charge around £150 ($300) as their hourly rate. But even so, I don't quite know how they could legitimately quote £2000.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: Mark R
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Even with 4 sensors (pretty much the maximum number, usually one upstream and one downstream of each cat in a modern car, so 2 for a single exhaust, 4 for a dual exhaust, and 3 for a 2-into-1 exhaust like a vee engine with a single outlet) and an expensive sensor, you're looking at $800 in sensors and a max of $200 in labor. Not cheap, but a far cry from $4,000. Anything over $1,500 would have be hugely suspiscious.

ZV
Heh. Maybe in Britain we're used to getting robbed daily.

Labor particularly. I know that, around London, BWM and MB dealers charge around £150 ($300) as their hourly rate. But even so, I don't quite know how they could legitimately quote £2000.
150 GBP/hour?! Damn. $95(US)/hour is an expensive mechanic here.

ZV
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
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81
Preliminary reports are suggesting the presence of abnormal levels of silicon in the suspect fuel. It's thought that this is due to contamination with silicones - additives commonly used in Diesel fuel as foam inhibitors.

However, when burned, silicones produce silicon dioxide. In the case of gasoline engines, the silicon dioxide crystalises on the lambda sensor, destroying its surface.

The source of the contamination is not yet known, however, one scenario being investigated is that the wrong fuel additive package was added at the depot.
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
16
81
Originally posted by: MS Dawn
Can it be tricked with a dummy zero plug?

Presumably. Not happened to my car, as i haven't used it for 2 weeks.

Apparently, mechanics have become very good at spotting this problem - the typical repair is a drain, flush and refill of the fuel, with sensor replacement, if the diagnostics show a failed sensor.

There have been a variety of reports of an the failed sensors showing an unusual white residue/damaged surface.
 

Jahee

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2006
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I hope Tesco are paying for all the damages caused by this...

Sounds like all the mechanics are trying to cash in on this also!
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,618
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Mark R
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Even with 4 sensors (pretty much the maximum number, usually one upstream and one downstream of each cat in a modern car, so 2 for a single exhaust, 4 for a dual exhaust, and 3 for a 2-into-1 exhaust like a vee engine with a single outlet) and an expensive sensor, you're looking at $800 in sensors and a max of $200 in labor. Not cheap, but a far cry from $4,000. Anything over $1,500 would have be hugely suspiscious.

ZV
Heh. Maybe in Britain we're used to getting robbed daily.

Labor particularly. I know that, around London, BWM and MB dealers charge around £150 ($300) as their hourly rate. But even so, I don't quite know how they could legitimately quote £2000.
150 GBP/hour?! Damn. $95(US)/hour is an expensive mechanic here.

ZV

The BMW dealer/stealer rates here are in the neighborhood of $150/hr, and the independents are all at or over $100/hr nowdays...always made me glad I could do most of my own work...