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YACT: it's sunny today and was hot in my car, but A/C is not working good
- Thread starter NeoPTLD
- Start date
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
Man, it's freaking 90+ here today. It is supposed to cool off tomorrow to the mid 70s.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
By 1993 most cars were using R-134a.
Also, you CANNOT buy R-12 (Freon) legally unless you have an EPA certification.
ZV
Also, you CANNOT buy R-12 (Freon) legally unless you have an EPA certification.
ZV
Zenmervolt
Elite member
That depends on the retrofit. A proper retrofit includes a new compressor, a new condensor, and a new receiver/drier. Under no circumstances should a car be changed from R-12 to R-134a without changing the receiver/drier.
If all three componants are changed and replaced with units built for R-134a then the cooling should be equivalent. It's just that R-134a requires a stronger compressor and a larger condensor to cool equivalently. The R-12 and R-134a receiver/driers are not compatible with refridgerants other than the one for which they were designed and problems (i.e. system failure) will result if the receiver/drier is not changed at the minimum.
ZV
Thegonagle
Diamond Member
'94 is the year that all auto makers were required to use the new refrigerant in the AC.
For a '93, it's a wild card as to which refrigerant was used, and for most '92s, it's probably the old stuff.
For a '93, it's a wild card as to which refrigerant was used, and for most '92s, it's probably the old stuff.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
You're pretty much screwed then. Most places will not touch an R-12 system anymore. You'll most likely be looking at an R-134a retrofit. As I said, make sure that at least the receiver/drier is replaced. A heavier duty compressor and a larger condensor would be good ideas too but they are expensive.
ZV
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Do you have R-12 that you purchased before 1993? If not, do you have the EPA certification to buy R-12 now?
Unless you can answer yes to one of those questions you cannot legally obtain R-12. And if you cannot legally obtain R-12 then there's no point to having the hoses.
ZV
GalvanizedYankee
Diamond Member
Conversions done right are expensive. As Zenmervolt stated the pressures are higher and a larger condenser is to be
seriously considered, as cooling performance will disappoint otherwise. Even then it won't be up to R-12 standards.
Plus the compatibility issue.
The loss of R-12 is generally at the seal behind the compressor's drive pulley. If the car ever tagged something with the front end, the condenser could have a small crack. The hoses have O'rings in their fittings, these may seep also.
You live in a metro area and there are shops that sell recycled R-12. As they do with junked cars, they will drain your R-12, filter it, dry it and refill adding what it needs, once repairs are done. Get an estimate!
Running the AC at least once a week for 10 minuets, no matter what the weather, is the best thing you can do for it.
The oil is in suspension with the freon and running the pump will keep everything wet down with a layer of oil. The compressor drive seal being the most important to keep moist.
Virgin R-12 can be had at a price. $$$ Seek out recycled R-12, it's there, you just got to make the phone calls. 😉
Quix may have something to add or change, as AC is a long suit for him. 🙂
seriously considered, as cooling performance will disappoint otherwise. Even then it won't be up to R-12 standards.
Plus the compatibility issue.
The loss of R-12 is generally at the seal behind the compressor's drive pulley. If the car ever tagged something with the front end, the condenser could have a small crack. The hoses have O'rings in their fittings, these may seep also.
You live in a metro area and there are shops that sell recycled R-12. As they do with junked cars, they will drain your R-12, filter it, dry it and refill adding what it needs, once repairs are done. Get an estimate!
Running the AC at least once a week for 10 minuets, no matter what the weather, is the best thing you can do for it.
The oil is in suspension with the freon and running the pump will keep everything wet down with a layer of oil. The compressor drive seal being the most important to keep moist.
Virgin R-12 can be had at a price. $$$ Seek out recycled R-12, it's there, you just got to make the phone calls. 😉
Quix may have something to add or change, as AC is a long suit for him. 🙂
Zenmervolt
Elite member
He's getting bent over then. Should be about half that unless it's a Porsche or something.
ZV
NutBucket
Lifer
Actually the shop I use prefers to use R12 since its more cost effective then a retrofit. They charge $60 a pound for it. Wait, my statement is incorrect. The shop my friend works for. So I get R12 at shop price. Actually, my R12 is in their recovery unit right now. It was leaking from the valves so I'm gonna replace the hardlines with the valves then recharge it.
And yes, proper R134 conversions are $$$. Usually the problem comes at idle. At cruising speed the difference isn't as noticeable. Same friend got away with it in his Volvo quite easily tho. He just changed the orifice (sp?) valve and charged it up. Damn his AC is COLD!! It meets, if not exceeds, manufacturer specs.
GalvanizedYankee
Diamond Member
Bump for Quix input plz 🙂
radioouman
Diamond Member
I did a retrofit on a Reliant many years ago. I replaced the compressor (it was leaking) and the evaporator/drier. I did not replace the condensor. I had a shop draw a vacuum on the system and then fill it with R134. They actually paid me $20 per pound for the R12 that was still in my system.
In my opinion, if you do the labor yourself except for vacuuming the system, then it is pretty cheap. <$500 easily to convert the entire system from R12 to R134.
In my opinion, if you do the labor yourself except for vacuuming the system, then it is pretty cheap. <$500 easily to convert the entire system from R12 to R134.
Which is cheaper, repairing or retrofitting my old A/C system? This question is asked at my shop at least twice a week over the summer months here in Michigan. The question usually varies depending on the facts.
If the vehicle in question has at least 70% of its normal charge left and you can find the leak then I always recommend repairing.
If the system has lost more than 70% of the charge or if the leak is not evident then it might be cost effective to retro fit the system, depending on the cost.
If the system has lost all of it?s charge or has a major component failure, i.e. compressor, condensor, or evaporator, then I would recommend repair & retrofit.
Retrofitting a system can be inexpensive, $99-150.00 to very expensive, $600+, depending on what needs to be replaced to get adequate cooling a safe performance.
Over the years I have serviced just about every make and mode on the road to day. Most cars and light trucks can be serviced in the nominal range of $150-300. The more expensive cars and most European and Japanese makes that have very high tolerances on their R12 systems to begin with. On some vehicle you have to increase the airflow across the condensor to get good pressure at idle and down the road. Also check to see if the engine fan(s) are pulling/pushing enough air across the condensor. I have seen several cars and truck with poor A/C performance due to bad fan clutches or fan motors.
NeoPTLD, without knowing the year, make, or model I cannot advise you on which option to pursue. If your car has lost less than a pound of Freon and you can repair the leak I would recharge it. The hose adaptors for R12 is still available from some local part stores, just check their flyers or ask about them. I bought a replacement can adaptor for my gauges last summer. If it has lost more than that and you need to by R12, then I would convert it. I can help you with determining which components need to be replaced to get adequate cooling.
BTW, I don?t recommend doing A/C service without understanding system pressures and cycling times. It also a good idea to have a set of gauges that can monitor both high and low side pressures at the same time.
If the vehicle in question has at least 70% of its normal charge left and you can find the leak then I always recommend repairing.
If the system has lost more than 70% of the charge or if the leak is not evident then it might be cost effective to retro fit the system, depending on the cost.
If the system has lost all of it?s charge or has a major component failure, i.e. compressor, condensor, or evaporator, then I would recommend repair & retrofit.
Retrofitting a system can be inexpensive, $99-150.00 to very expensive, $600+, depending on what needs to be replaced to get adequate cooling a safe performance.
Over the years I have serviced just about every make and mode on the road to day. Most cars and light trucks can be serviced in the nominal range of $150-300. The more expensive cars and most European and Japanese makes that have very high tolerances on their R12 systems to begin with. On some vehicle you have to increase the airflow across the condensor to get good pressure at idle and down the road. Also check to see if the engine fan(s) are pulling/pushing enough air across the condensor. I have seen several cars and truck with poor A/C performance due to bad fan clutches or fan motors.
NeoPTLD, without knowing the year, make, or model I cannot advise you on which option to pursue. If your car has lost less than a pound of Freon and you can repair the leak I would recharge it. The hose adaptors for R12 is still available from some local part stores, just check their flyers or ask about them. I bought a replacement can adaptor for my gauges last summer. If it has lost more than that and you need to by R12, then I would convert it. I can help you with determining which components need to be replaced to get adequate cooling.
BTW, I don?t recommend doing A/C service without understanding system pressures and cycling times. It also a good idea to have a set of gauges that can monitor both high and low side pressures at the same time.