YACT: If I put aftermarket struts on my car, do I have to replace the shocks and springs too?

[wasssup]

1999 Honda Civic EX coupe, 118k miles

I was told I need to replace two struts in the front of my car and get an alignment (to the tune of $600). Thing is, I can get performance parts cheaper than price they're trying to sell me generic oem-style parts.

If I put let's say these on, do I also *HAVE* to replace the shocks and springs or would I be fine with just this for now?

 

[sonoma1993]

well the strut is the shock. For the springs, most likely. But if I were you, I would look up company that makes those struts on the internet, and see what their website says.

 

[tfinch2]

KYB GR2s are NOT performance struts...

 

[DaTT]

You don't have to replace the springs when you replace a strut...unless of course the spring is broken, but you'd feel that.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: wasssup
1999 Honda Civic EX coupe, 118k miles

I was told I need to replace two struts in the front of my car and get an alignment (to the tune of $600). Thing is, I can get performance parts cheaper than price they're trying to sell me generic oem-style parts.

If I put let's say these on, do I also *HAVE* to replace the shocks and springs or would I be fine with just this for now?

You don't have to replace the springs when you replace the shocks/struts, but if you're going for better handling you'd want everything matched.

Remember, the springs hold the car up while the shocks just stop it from bouncing. If you're going for better handing and you keep the stock soft springs on a car and install "high performance" shocks, it's not going to do you much good.

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: DaTT

You don't have to replace the springs when you replace a strut...unless of course the spring is broken, but you'd feel that.

Exactly, the only times you replace your springs are if they are broken (cracked), or are so worn out from heavy weight they are sagging, your car isnt a 1970's full size boat that weighs 3000lb+, so unless you want to change the ride height your fine with the springs you have now.

And like said before Struts=shocks so your replacing them already so to speak.

OH and where did you get that quote from, that is high as hell, this is the one time I may suggest going to midas or firestone or even sears to have your struts replaced. Should be around $250 ish or less with a alignment.

Plus who said they needed to be replaced? Are they leaking? Is your car bouncing all over the place? A way to test your struts/shocks is to bounce the front end up and down with your weight. Put a knee on the bumper and bounce the front left up and down a few times and let go. If it bounces more then 1 1/2 times(ish) before leveling out then they are worn, do the same thing for the right side as well. If the front end just keeps bouncing up and down and slowly stops they are toast.

Also if they are leaking, look in there where the struts are and see if you see signs of oil around the strut housing, unless gas filled you wont see that, but the bounce test is a dead give away. Also check your tires for uneven wear, outer edges would look like ridges cut into the tread, should be smooth and even, if it looks or feels choppy its a sign the tire has been bouncing up and down while your driving, another sign of worn struts. If you have none of this your struts are perfectly fine for you to drive on no matter the year and miles on the car.

But if you took it to a shop for a oil change and they come back and said OH your car is 8 years old and has 100K you need struts or your gonna die, tell them to pack it right up their ass with sunshine. If it doesnt bounce all over the place and its not leaking save your money man.

 

[wasssup]

Yeah the "bounce" test was done right in front of me by my coworker's boyfriend. The handling's way off, but that's probably due to what my last mechanic did:

1) beginning of january i hit curb at 5mph
2) took it to local shop, they tell me it's just a bent rim and alignment
3) decide to take it to a mechanic i used to trust (good work in the past) instead just in case
4) they tell me it's a bent LCA. next day mechanic calls and says they want to 'replace all suspension components' with junkyard parts for $800
5) i buy parts myself cheaper from a junkyard, give it to him to install, he has car ready two weeks later (mid-january)
6) brakes fail to engage on a random basis, car pulls/handles worse than initially
7) take it back to him for a rework, two weeks later car is ready, mechanic says i now owe another $260. i refuse since this was a rework, brakes were fine before, even call cops to get a police report so i can take it to court (cop said he couldn't, found out a few minutes later he was the mechanic's friend..just my luck).
8) read in my chilton's manual that to replace struts they have to mess with the brake hose (what mysteriously failed after the first work and i was forced to pay for), not only that but found out from my coworker's boyfriend (a mechanic) that they installed the wrong one, incorrectly, so my brakes are always dragging or something
9) anyway, was forced to pay that $260. $800 later the car still handles like ******. I assume I only needed a LCA/rim/alignment, but mechanic wanted to get $$$ out of me and now I'm forced to redo everything
10) coworker's boyfriend's shop says old shop never aligned car, there are no marks showing it was done, and if i want to fix my car it'll be $600. Add another ~$100 to that to fix the brake issue.

So yeah. My car's sitting in the lawn and since my parents are out of town for a while I borrowed their car till I figure things out. Not sure if it's worth taking the old mechanic to court (with court fees and money lost from taking a day off work), and since I've been wanting a new car maybe I should just go out and buy one, and keep the Civic as my project car (and attempt to fix this crap myself).

 

[RGN]

Boy, it sucks to not know anything about cars huh? You don't have to be a greasemonkey to know some stuff, stop being a girl and go figure it out.

The last shop is doing way more than an alignment for $600. Normally alignments are $100-150 out the door, no parts are *usually replaced.

 

[wasssup]

Originally posted by: RGN
Boy, it sucks to not know anything about cars huh? You don't have to be a greasemonkey to know some stuff, stop being a girl and go figure it out.

The last shop is doing way more than an alignment for $600. Normally alignments are $100-150 out the door, no parts are *usually replaced.

? Either my explanation was confusing, or you're confused, but yeah, I know I'm getting more than an alignment for $600.

 

[DainBramaged]

You should ask RGN what he thinks of his KYB's. (Hint: He hates them.) Go with Tokico's for a ride that is nicely improved over the OEM struts. I wouldn't bother replacing the springs. It's only a Honda.

 

[Slickone]

With 119K miles, your car more than likely needs new springs anyway. Replacing struts with bad springs is worthless.

Also if you're getting high performance struts, you'd want some hi performance progressive rate springs too. What about the Honda HFP stuff?

 

[wasssup]

Originally posted by: Slickone
With 119K miles, your car more than likely needs new springs anyway. Replacing struts with bad springs is worthless.

Also if you're getting high performance struts, you'd want some hi performance progressive rate springs too. What about the Honda HFP stuff?

I'll definitely take a look at that. I've been going around some of the Civic forums and it seems a lot of people prefer the Koni Yellow/Ground Control setup. The price seems semi-reasonable (~$800 for both)..

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: RGN
Boy, it sucks to not know anything about cars huh? You don't have to be a greasemonkey to know some stuff, stop being a girl and go figure it out.

The last shop is doing way more than an alignment for $600. Normally alignments are $100-150 out the door, no parts are *usually replaced.

You're getting reamed if you pay 100-150 for an alignment! LOL

 

[CraigRT]

strut = shock
Just replace the struts, you're good to go.

 

[RGN]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

You're getting reamed if you pay 100-150 for an alignment! LOL

Its all about the market, the shop and 2 wheel vs 4 wheel. Some cars also cost more than others. Don't be so quick on that statement, because its simply conjecture.

 

[RGN]

Dude, if its a commuter car, just replace the struts and be done. Springs don't really wear out. If its a race car, (which at 119K its not gonna be, not to mention its a Civic) then you could look at a set of both. Ground control Koni will destroy the ride quality and not last as long as a good OE replacement.

Pros of performance parts:
Slightly better handling, but not that much because struts/springs are only part of what handling is about

Cons of Performance parts:
Costly
Ride quality decreases
Maintenance costs increase
Don't last as long


Pros of OE replacements:
Inexpensive
ride quality increases from worn out to new condition
longevity

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: RGN
Dude, if its a commuter car, just replace the struts and be done. Springs don't really wear out. If its a race car, (which at 119K its not gonna be, not to mention its a Civic) then you could look at a set of both. Ground control Koni will destroy the ride quality and not last as long as a good OE replacement.

Pros of performance parts:
Slightly better handling, but not that much because struts/springs are only part of what handling is about

Cons of Performance parts:
Costly
Ride quality decreases
Maintenance costs increase
Don't last as long


Pros of OE replacements:
Inexpensive
ride quality increases from worn out to new condition
longevity

Usually OEM parts are expensive.

 

[mercanucaribe]

A 1999 Honda Civic doesn't use struts. It's double wishbone suspension. You can replace the shocks, or the springs, or both.

 

[RGN]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Usually OEM parts are expensive.

OE replacement doesn't mean OEM.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
KYB GR2s are NOT performance struts...

:roll:

They may not be coilovers but they're not stock struts either. GR2s definitely fall into the "street performance" category.

Answer to the OP: yes, you should get new springs (the struts are the shocks) for proper handling. The GR2s have 15-30% more dampening than the stock struts. You should get lowered springs with higher spring rates in order to offset that. Otherwise, you'll get a somewhat soft but overly dampened ride, meaning bouncy. DO NOT CUT THE STOCK SPRINGS.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RGN

Originally posted by: tfinch2

You're getting reamed if you pay 100-150 for an alignment! LOL

Its all about the market, the shop and 2 wheel vs 4 wheel. Some cars also cost more than others. Don't be so quick on that statement, because its simply conjecture.

I get my lowered Subarus custom 4-wheel aligned to autoX specs for $70 bucks. It's a small one man alignment shop and he gets the bulk of the performance alignment business on this side of town.

 

[wasssup]

Thanks for helping me clear a few things up. Is there a certain brand/model of OE replacements you'd recommend over others?

*EDIT* And if GR2's provide slightly better handling characteristics than 'OE' replacements without decreasing ride quality too much, I might go that route since the set is pretty cheap. Not really sure of what springs would match with this?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
A 1999 Honda Civic doesn't use struts. It's double wishbone suspension. You can replace the shocks, or the springs, or both.

From KYB.com, '96-'00 Civic, GR2 struts part #'s 341203 (front), 341198 (rear).

 

[RGN]

Originally posted by: Vic

I get my lowered Subarus custom 4-wheel aligned to autoX specs for $70 bucks. It's a small one man alignment shop and he gets the bulk of the performance alignment business on this side of town.

That is what I was saying about market conditions.

My lowered Maxima (on Koni/Eibach) is $79, my stock 944 is $129. This is what I was referring to about car differences.

 

[Slickone]

Originally posted by: RGN
Dude, if its a commuter car, just replace the struts and be done. Springs don't really wear out. If its a race car, (which at 119K its not gonna be, not to mention its a Civic) then you could look at a set of both. Ground control Koni will destroy the ride quality and not last as long as a good OE replacement.

Pros of performance parts:
Slightly better handling, but not that much because struts/springs are only part of what handling is about

Cons of Performance parts:
Costly
Ride quality decreases
Maintenance costs increase
Don't last as long


Pros of OE replacements:
Inexpensive
ride quality increases from worn out to new condition
longevity

You seem to not really know what you're talking about.