YACT: Environmental people, why is it illegal to vent the new A/C refrigerant(134a)?

[NeoPTLD]

It turns out that it is illegal to vent 134a refrigerant from auto air conditioning system when servicing it or recharging it. I am not talking about Freon 12 which is illegal to vent for an obvious reason.

A reason one might want to vent it is when the system has partially leaked, it is easier to recharge it from zero. If the system holds 30oz, you'd empty in two 12oz cans, then fill with third can until its weight is reduced by 6oz and there you have a perfect charge w/o fussing with gauges.


Why is that illegal, but this is legal?

It makes no sense to me.

 

[Quixfire]

The EPA wants it illegal so they can regulate the Freon used in these systems. There is no proof either R12 or R134a causes ozone depletion.

Answer me this, R22 is chemically the same as R12, but it's not banned for use in household systems. Why is that if it's not about taxes and control over the automotive industry?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

well that stuff is probably owned by a politician.

 

[Spencer278]

I would guess so that you have to get the system professional servesed.

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
The EPA wants it illegal so they can regulate the Freon used in these systems. There is no proof either R12 or R134a causes ozone depletion.

R-134a is not ozone depleting at all unlike R-12

Answer me this, R22 is chemically the same as R12, but it's not banned for use in household systems. Why is that if it's not about taxes and control over the automotive industry?

Because R22 is completely different from R12.

 

[drnickriviera]

IIRC 134 is a greenhouse gas

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: drnickriviera
IIRC 134 is a greenhouse gas

so what logic is involved in keeping 134a duster legal but venting car A/C illegal?

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Quixfire
The EPA wants it illegal so they can regulate the Freon used in these systems. There is no proof either R12 or R134a causes ozone depletion.

R-134a is not ozone depleting at all unlike R-12

Answer me this, R22 is chemically the same as R12, but it's not banned for use in household systems. Why is that if it's not about taxes and control over the automotive industry?

Because R22 is completely different from R12.

First, prove to me R12 is ozone depleting, even the government can't do that.

Second, read my post again. R22 & R12 are chemically the same the only difference is R22 lacks the binding agent that allows a lubricant to flow with it.

 

[lightpants]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Quixfire
The EPA wants it illegal so they can regulate the Freon used in these systems. There is no proof either R12 or R134a causes ozone depletion.

R-134a is not ozone depleting at all unlike R-12

Answer me this, R22 is chemically the same as R12, but it's not banned for use in household systems. Why is that if it's not about taxes and control over the automotive industry?

Because R22 is completely different from R12.

First, prove to me R12 is ozone depleting, even the government can't do that.

Second, read my post again. R22 & R12 are chemically the same the only difference is R22 lacks the binding agent that allows a lubricant to flow with it.

Follow the money trail- Dow chemical is where it ends- they "own" enough politicians to make it illegal and put money in their pockets.
It is just like diamonds and Debeers

 

[Vette73]

R12 and R22 are similar, BUT different....

Refrigerants:
R22 Formula = CHCLF2
R12 Formula = CCI2F2


Also you use to be able to buy R12 without a license, so a lot of people grew up fixing their own car.

To get R22 you have to have a license and most places only sell it in 30lb cyl's now so you need special hoses and meters to install it correctly.
And even then most A/C and Heat pumps companies are phasing out R22, all be it very slowly.


R134a is not bad for the ozone, O3, as R12 is. But it is still not the best thing to be just letting out. Its still toxic, so the EPA and others don't want you venting out toxic stuff all the time. This rule is mostly for mechanic's and shops, not DIY's. So they are not going to kick in your door and fine you for it, but if I did that all the time as a mechanic then yea they might come after me.

 

[NeoPTLD]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Quixfire
The EPA wants it illegal so they can regulate the Freon used in these systems. There is no proof either R12 or R134a causes ozone depletion.

R-134a is not ozone depleting at all unlike R-12

Answer me this, R22 is chemically the same as R12, but it's not banned for use in household systems. Why is that if it's not about taxes and control over the automotive industry?

Because R22 is completely different from R12.

First, prove to me R12 is ozone depleting, even the government can't do that.

Second, read my post again. R22 & R12 are chemically the same the only difference is R22 lacks the binding agent that allows a lubricant to flow with it.

I read your post properly the first time. The problem is you got your facts wrong and DuPont will agree with me.

Freon 12
Freon 22

When you read both of them and you know how to comprehend these documents, you'll know you're wrong.

 

[NutBucket]

I'll take bids for the 2 pounds of R12 I've got (tho right now being stored in a shop's AC recovery/recharge unit)

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD

Originally posted by: Quixfire
The EPA wants it illegal so they can regulate the Freon used in these systems. There is no proof either R12 or R134a causes ozone depletion.

R-134a is not ozone depleting at all unlike R-12

Answer me this, R22 is chemically the same as R12, but it's not banned for use in household systems. Why is that if it's not about taxes and control over the automotive industry?

Because R22 is completely different from R12.

First, prove to me R12 is ozone depleting, even the government can't do that.

Second, read my post again. R22 & R12 are chemically the same the only difference is R22 lacks the binding agent that allows a lubricant to flow with it.

I read your post properly the first time. The problem is you got your facts wrong and DuPont will agree with me.

Freon 12
Freon 22

When you read both of them and you know how to comprehend these documents, you'll know you're wrong.

OK, so the big diiference R12 is DICHLORODIFLUOROMETHANE and R22 is CHLORODIFLUOROMETHANE so explain to me how that make one less a CFC than the other?

I have read these and I understand the refrigerant business from a EPA & Automotive view point. That doesn't explain why one is banned and the other isn't.

In your original post you stated "Freon 12 which is illegal to vent for an obvious reason" and I asked you "First, prove to me R12 is ozone depleting, even the government can't do that" and you yet to answer that question.

 

[XZeroII]

Have any of you ever read what is in those cans of compressed air that you use to clean computers?


Yup, R134a. Exact same stuff. Read the cans.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
Have any of you ever read what is in those cans of compressed air that you use to clean computers?


Yup, R134a. Exact same stuff. Read the cans.

Very interesting, we used to use cans of R12 to remove bubblegum from desks back in highschool.