YACT: Cops shoot innocent ex-marine in AZ (huffington)

[QueBert]

Are you an idiot? You do NOT ever pull a gun, loaded, safetied, unsafetied, rubber duck, etc, on the cops. If you do, expect to get taken down. The cops entered under a legal search warrant, its irrelevant that they didn't find anything, they entered legally. The ex-marine pointed an assault rifle at them, which the police have no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded or safetied, they saw a deadly open pointed at them and responded accordingly.

So if your door gets busted down out of nowhere are you going to take the time to identify if it was the cops on a no knock warrant, or a home invader who's going to kill you? This guy was innocent, so LOGIC should tell you that there's absolutely zero reason he should have thought anything other than it was a person attempting to cause him harm. It would be different if this was a drug king pen or somebody who stays ready for the police to serve a no knock warrant.

Going by your logic, nobody should ever pull a gun on an intruder because it could be the police. Too bad if it's an intruder there's a good chance you're a goner. The saddest part of your post is you're not trolling.

 

[Zebo]

I agree. They go in charged up, armed to the teeth, and ready to shoot anything that even begins to represent a threat.

I tell my Soldiers all the time to remember that we have the best body armor and medical capabilities in the world. I tell them this to ensure that they understand that they can hesitate just long enough to know whether their target is worth killing or not. I'd rather live with the bruised ribs, lacerations, etc., from catching a round than the pain of knowing I killed an unarmed, man, woman, or child.

It's hard to compare war to civilian law enforcement. In war you have "status targets". e.g. machine gunning a cafe full of nazis/al queta. You also bomb etc. All this is not, and should not be applicable to civilian LE operations. But it's becoming that way.

I just wish they'd follow basic shooter safety. Don't point muzzle at anything you don't want to destroy. That alone would save a shit load of lives

 

[Nintendesert]

Isn't preventing/purposefully delaying emergency medical care a felony?

It's a war crime in the uncivilized parts of the world we fight in. But it America it's ok. They did it to the nutjobs in LA too. Cops are notorious for claiming the area is still dangerous and letting people they got beef with to bleed out.

 

[Arkaign]

Terrible, and sounds like the problem really lies with :

(1)- The leadership of this Sheriff.

and

(2)- The useless war on drugs. I'd much rather see the resources that go into raids like this (and the subsequent trials/incarcerations) put towards the pursuit of rapists and other violent offenders.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Aside from who did what, I feel bad for the family members, and I'd ask what piss-poor policework lead to them going for the wrong address.

Serious oversight there.

 

[Brigandier]

Aside from who did what, I feel bad for the family members, and I'd ask what piss-poor policework lead to them going for the wrong address.

Serious oversight there.

They probably narrowed it down between a few houses, and used logistics to figure out who sold the dope.

 

[QueBert]

Aside from who did what, I feel bad for the family members, and I'd ask what piss-poor policework lead to them going for the wrong address.

Serious oversight there.

I wouldn't be surprised if when they hit the block in question, if they're unsure which house it is they play Roshambo to decide which one to randomly raid.

 

[BoomerD]

The local SWAT cops shot and killed an 11 year old boy a few years back during a raid...he was lying face down on the floor at the time.

This also happened during a drug raid.

http://ron.dotson.net/gov/govkills/Sepulveda.htm

Shit happens...sometimes, tragically.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Pretty fucked up. Guess that's where the whole "no-knock/don't have to identify themselves as cops" laws get to come into play. On one hand, I hate that there are so many sue-happy shitheads and that our legal system is fucking up the entire country. On the other hand, this mom and kid are going to be able to get a lot more out of it than they would otherwise (and rightfully so).

I've got $20 on the warrant being obtained under false pretenses, or a dirty judge. Pretty fucking ridiculous that they're allowed to seal the affadavit and warrant AFTER they do the raid, let's see how long that bullshit holds up in front of a real judge.

They should have just brought the tank..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYE7YR33G-A&feature=related

Start it at 1:40

 

[ch33zw1z]

The local SWAT cops shot and killed an 11 year old boy a few years back during a raid...he was lying face down on the floor at the time.

This also happened during a drug raid.

http://ron.dotson.net/gov/govkills/Sepulveda.htm

Shit happens...sometimes, tragically.

Doesn't make it ok.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Wow America you guys need to stop your cops from going around shooting people over a bit of weed.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Are you an idiot? You do NOT ever pull a gun, loaded, safetied, unsafetied, rubber duck, etc, on the cops. If you do, expect to get taken down. The cops entered under a legal search warrant, its irrelevant that they didn't find anything, they entered legally. The ex-marine pointed an assault rifle at them, which the police have no way of knowing whether or not it was loaded or safetied, they saw a deadly open pointed at them and responded accordingly.

Another police apologist hey?

How was he to know they were cops? They didnt knock or announce themselves. Proper procedure, I would think, would be to identify themselves and tell him to put the weapon down. They just opened fire.

They deserve to burn for this.

 

[Bateluer]

So if your door gets busted down out of nowhere are you going to take the time to identify if it was the cops on a no knock warrant, or a home invader who's going to kill you? This guy was innocent, so LOGIC should tell you that there's absolutely zero reason he should have thought anything other than it was a person attempting to cause him harm. It would be different if this was a drug king pen or somebody who stays ready for the police to serve a no knock warrant.

Going by your logic, nobody should ever pull a gun on an intruder because it could be the police. Too bad if it's an intruder there's a good chance you're a goner. The saddest part of your post is you're not trolling.

Derp. Even on a no knock warrant, as soon as the battering ram knocks open the door, the police start shouting who they are. Use your head. The negative part of the story is the cops not allowing paramedics to do their jobs after they'd disabled the threat. The guy was down and disarmed, let the paramedics in.

And I always love ATOT's anti-drug war rhetoric, its quite funny.

 

[DirkGently1]

Wow America you guys need to stop your cops from going around shooting people over a bit of weed.

Their Police don't need a reason, just an excuse.

 

[Broheim]

Derp. Even on a no knock warrant, as soon as the battering ram knocks open the door, the police start shouting who they are. Use your head. The negative part of the story is the cops not allowing paramedics to do their jobs after they'd disabled the threat. The guy was down and disarmed, let the paramedics in.

And I always love ATOT's anti-drug war rhetoric, its quite funny.

they scream "POLICE, SEARCH WARRANT" so loud and so many times it's ridiculous.

 

[mrjminer]

They should have just brought the tank..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYE7YR33G-A&feature=related

Start it at 1:40

Pretty cool.

I think it would be a lot safer for civilians if they did use the tanks all the time. I mean, the cops wouldn't have to shoot until fired upon since they'd be in a tank, and people would realize pretty quickly that it's the cops since home invasions don't involve (usually) entry via tank.

 

[ch33zw1z]

And I always love ATOT's anti-drug war rhetoric, its quite funny.

It's not just ATOT. Anti-WoD feelings are growing in the USA. The more innocents they kill, the less citizens the LEO's and Politicians will have on their side. I fear that actual recourse won't be found in our legal system though My belief and fear is that true change will be found through civil unrest.

The WoD costs big bucks every year. It's filling our jails with violent and non-violent criminals without any sort of differentiation. It's turned our civil rights into a joke. It's created a real life hit squad called SWAT that busts down innocent people's door with almost no information to go on, shoot first, "me so sowwy" later (if you're lucky enough to get an apology). The information received is often times not reliable(due to the sources, aka junkies), but they don't care...a no-knock or a knock warrant are issued anyways and civil rights be damned.

Some people want to blame the drugs...

 

[Ancalagon44]

Derp. Even on a no knock warrant, as soon as the battering ram knocks open the door, the police start shouting who they are. Use your head. The negative part of the story is the cops not allowing paramedics to do their jobs after they'd disabled the threat. The guy was down and disarmed, let the paramedics in.

And I always love ATOT's anti-drug war rhetoric, its quite funny.

How long do you think they waited before shooting him, considering his safety was still on?

When you consider that the only thing the war on drugs does is get innocent guys like this killed, you start to wonder whether its worth it. But hey, you apparently agree with the unlawful killing of an innocent man in front of his family for having the nerve to want to make sure that the intruders were not bandits.

At least bandits might not have killed him.

 

[Vette73]

Anyone want to take bets that this will be swept under the rug and no one will lose their job/jail time.

 

[jlee]

Another police apologist hey?

How was he to know they were cops? They didnt knock or announce themselves. Proper procedure, I would think, would be to identify themselves and tell him to put the weapon down. They just opened fire.

They deserve to burn for this.

Another link that you apparently did not read

Waldman: "There were some reports out there that this was I guess what some law enforcement would call a no-knock entry. Did you announce yourselves as law enforcement officers?"

O'Connor: "Absolutely. Those are very specific cases when it's a no-knock warrant. This was not a no-knock warrant. This case was, we came in very high profile, lights and sirens.

Unless, of course, you were there and can tell us for a fact exactly what happened?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Another link that you apparently did not read



Unless, of course, you were there and can tell us for a fact exactly what happened?

The interview was 17 days after the incident, the police have change their story more than once. The records were sealed 4 days after the incident. O'Conner wasn't there either. It's too little too late, the police have already lost their credibility with the citizens from what I've read.

 

[dbk]

Remind me never to live in Tucson

 

[Triumph]

lol

The war on drugs has militarized our police forces who are so geared to "taking out" the suspect it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy not to mention leads to zero cooperation.

And you know the worst part? All of this militarized police force and anti-terrorism security bullshit will never go away. Two reasons: 1. removing power that was formerly granted is nearly impossible and 2. there is LOTS of money in "security". All the companies that provide equipment, technology, training, and services to law enforcement are making bank off of the threats to our country, real or imagined. Just thumb through any law enforcement or military targeted magazine at Borders and you'll see what I mean.

They also love projecting an image of toughness, us-versus-them mentality, meant to intimidate. Reference the above mentioned advertising. I guess the original intent is to intimidate the bad guys, but it ends up being diverted towards the general population. And you talk to police and listen to them, they DO have a very "us-versus-them" mentality towards the general population. Everyone is a suspect, everyone is a potential criminal, everyone is out to get them, and we're going to do our best to protect our own.

 

[Numenorean]

If it wasn't a no-knock warrant, why is there a need to break down the door? Or serve it in the middle of the night?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

If it wasn't a no-knock warrant, why is there a need to break down the door? Or serve it in the middle of the night?

IMO they should plug the main drain line for the house, surround the house with officers, and then openly evacuate the house. This needs to happen in broad daylight. Doing this stuff at night under the pretense of a 'surprise' is repeatedly a horrible idea. There is NO WAY this nighttime stuff is cheaper or safer, it seems almost as nothing more than an exciting way for these brutes to get their rocks off.


FYI to all of the people claiming the homeowner is in the wrong.. This is how the 'bad guys' do home invasions. They kick the door down, run inside with rifles screaming police over and over and tie everyone up. If you're lucky they just rob you.





And Jlee.. from what I read this morning neighbors are claiming there were NO lights, NO sirens, and the guy certainly doesn't fit your 'police profile' of any sort of bad guy. It's a bit sickening that you're grasping to stand up for them, and unfortunately shows the gang mentality cops seem to have.




Basically, this is isn't Iraq anymore and those tactics don't belong here.