YACT: Cop shoots woodcarver minding his own business and.....

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911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,448
1
76
That was one of the most insane things I've ever watched, and I'm not talking about the guy who was shot lying on the ground but how over the top the police act about him.

That's what happens when you try to follow procedures to the letter, hardly ever works IRL. "Looked good on paper."

Stacking up works for door entry, that looked like a cha-cha line.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
That's what happens when you try to follow procedures to the letter, hardly ever works IRL. "Looked good on paper."

Stacking up works for door entry, that looked like a cha-cha line.

looks like something out o fa old keystone cops routine.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
The video clearly shown that the man on the ground was breathing, and all the cops (10 of them) just stand there in a stance with their gun drawn and point at the wounded body on the ground. They yank on the limped body instead of helping the obviously badly wounded person.

What happen to serve and protect?

IMHO, this cop is a cowboy that shoot first and shoot again then sort out the question/s later. And to add insult to injury, the cowboy cop buddies are a bunch of pussies as well. These are the kind of cops that I do not want work for me.

you do have to realize all the other cops know is radio traffic that the guy that was shot tried to stab a cop

also what did you want them to do, they arent doing to do shit till paramedics show up. any 'aide'(not that they were going to do it for that guy who thiey think tried to stab a fellow officer) they give that could cause harm they are liable for. so they wait for the pros.

that you can thank sue happy lawyers for

(disclaimer: I am in no way saying what happened was right just explaining why no one was hopping up to administer aide)
 

911paramedic

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
9,448
1
76
you do have to realize all the other cops know is radio traffic that the guy that was shot tried to stab a cop

also what did you want them to do, they arent doing to do shit till paramedics show up. any 'aide'(not that they were going to do it for that guy who thiey think tried to stab a fellow officer) they give that could cause harm they are liable for. so they wait for the pros.

that you can thank sue happy lawyers for

(disclaimer: I am in no way saying what happened was right just explaining why no one was hopping up to administer aide)

This.

We stage (wait) down the street in a safe location until we are told the scene is code-4 before we get near it. Not to mention traumatic arrests are almost always fatal, especially when there's a bunch of holes associated with it. CPR would just pump the blood out faster.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
76
Results are in

Four of eight jurors determined that woodcarver John T. Williams didn't have sufficient time to put down his knife before he was shot and killed by Seattle police Officer Ian Birk in August.

Only one juror found that Williams had time to put down the knife before the Aug. 30 shooting. Three other jurors answered "unknown."

In another critical question, four jurors said that Birk believed Williams posed an "imminent threat of serious physical harm" when he was shot. Four jurors answered "unknown."

The jury's answers to the series of questions did not have to be unanimous in the fact-finding inquest.

On the next question, whether Williams posed an imminent threat of serious physical harm "based on the information available at the time," only one juror believed he did. Four others believed Williams did not pose an imminent threat and one juror answered "unknown."

The three questions were considered key among the 13 answered Thursday afternoon by the inquest jury, which heard testimony over six days. The jury deliberated for about 10 hours over two days.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
1,084
3
81
Based on the results it sounds like trying him would be a waste of time and money. If the inquest jury can't even unanimously decide whether Williams posted a threat, there's practically no chance the prosecution would be able to prove malice beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
4 said he didn't have time 3 were not 100%sure and 1 thought the cop was justifed.

wich is far better then i expected and is enough to justify a court case and charges.

BUT since it could be considered close they won't do anything and this guy who murdered him will get off.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,536
336
126
4 said he didn't have time 3 were not 100%sure and 1 thought the cop was justifed.

wich is far better then i expected and is enough to justify a court case and charges.
Uhh, stop internet lawyering. 50% of the jurors believed the officer acted in good faith (if even erroneously), the other 50% responded they did not know one way or another (as opposed to responding "no"). That is not remotely enough to justify prosecution. We don't prosecute cops for making good faith mistakes or errors in judgment, only when their actions are grossly negligent or malicious. Your personal opinion is not the same as what is consistent with the law, legal standards, and customary practice.
 
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caddlad

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2002
1,248
0
0
Full questionnaire from kirotv.com



  1. On August 30, 2010, did Seattle Police Officer Ian Birk observe John T. Williams crossing the street?Yes (8)
  2. Was John T. Williams holding an open knife at the time he was first observed by Officer Birk?Yes (8)
  3. Did Officer Birk get out of his patrol car to contact John T. Williams?Yes (8)
  4. Did Officer Birk gesture to John T. Williams to come back to Officer Birk's location?Yes (7); Unknown (1)
  5. Did John T. Williams have a knife in his hand when Officer Birk contacted him?Yes (8)
  6. Did Officer Birk order John T. Williams to put the knife down?Yes (8) If your answer to question 6 was yes, please answer the following 4 questions:
    • Did Officer Birk order John T. Williams to put the knife down more than once? Yes (8)
    • Did John T. Williams have sufficient time to put the knife down after Officer Birk's order?Yes (1); No (4); Unknown (3)
    • Did John T. Williams try to put the knife down after Officer Birk's order?Unknown (8)
    • Did John T. Williams put the knife down before Officer Birk began to fire his weapon?No (8)
  7. Was the front of John T. Williams' upper body partially turned towards (sic) Officer Birk when Officer Birk began to fire his weapon?Yes (2); No (5); Unknown (1)
  8. Did Officer Birk fire his weapon at John T. Williams on August 30, 2010?Yes (8)
  9. When Officer Birk fired his weapon, did John T. Williams have a knife in his hand?Yes (8)
    • If yes, was John T. Williams' knife blade open when Officer Birk fired his weapon?No (4); Unknown (4)
  10. Did Officer Birk believe that John T. Williams posed an imminent threat of serious physical harm to Officer Birk at the time Officer Birk fired his weapon?Yes (4); Unknown (4)
  11. Based on the information available at the time Officer Birk fired his weapon, did John T. Williams then pose an imminent threat of serious physical harm to Officer Birk?Yes (1); No (4); Unknown (3)
  12. Did John T. Williams die in King County, Washington on August 30, 2010?Yes (8)
  13. Did John T. Williams die from the gunshot wounds caused by Officer Birk?Yes (8)
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
no suprise. find that there is not enough to charge him yet pay out 1.5 million..

You do realize the standards for civil court vs criminal court are different, right?

And read tcsenter's post.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
You do realize the standards for civil court vs criminal court are different, right?

And read tcsenter's post.

yes there is. the joke is this piece of shit didn't even get to criminal court. even though the review board said it was unjustified he didn't get charged. its a fucking joke.

they claim not enough to CHARGE him yet there is enough to pay out 1.5 million in taxpayer money? WTF yeah..
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,960
8,204
126
yes there is. the joke is this piece of shit didn't even get to criminal court. even though the review board said it was unjustified he didn't get charged. its a fucking joke.

they claim not enough to CHARGE him yet there is enough to pay out 1.5 million in taxpayer money? WTF yeah..

Imagine if it were any of us. What do you suppose would happen if you shot a guy in the back who's only "weapon" was a piece of shit folding knife? You'd be sitting in jail serving a 25yr+ sentence, hoping one of your appeals goes through :^S
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
This reminds me of a woman who was shot and killed by a cop. Her family said she was only holding a fruit peeler, and the news ran with that. Well turns out she wasn't just holding a peeler. The so called peeler she was holding was actually combination peeler and cleaver. A very sharp cleaver that was waving into the air like she was going to throw it at the police officer. The peeler she had could probably behead a person.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
This reminds me of a woman who was shot and killed by a cop. Her family said she was only holding a fruit peeler, and the news ran with that. Well turns out she wasn't just holding a peeler. The so called peeler she was holding was actually combination peeler and cleaver. A very sharp cleaver that was waving into the air like she was going to throw it at the police officer. The peeler she had could probably behead a person.

This cleaver-peeler also contain the souls of Hattori Hanzo and Miyamoto Musashi?