YACT: Cop shoots woodcarver minding his own business and.....

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Numenorean

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2008
4,442
1
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I guess one thing that bugs me is that there is a lawyer representing the Williams' family.

Where was the dudes family before he was shot? Obviously didn't give two shits about him or try to get him the help he needed. Only care when maybe they can get some money out of it.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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I guess one thing that bugs me is that there is a lawyer representing the Williams' family.

Where was the dudes family before he was shot? Obviously didn't give two shits about him or try to get him the help he needed. Only care when maybe they can get some money out of it.

yes the family should of been there before. but perhaps there was reasons.

but either way the lawyer is also t here to make sure the murder pays for his crimes. the law is not going to do it on themselves.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Fucking disgusting. This is clearly a case of "OBEY ME, OR I WILL KILL YOU".

That cop forum is the most disgusting thing I've ever read. We need police reforms IMMEDIATELY.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
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Wow, the anti cops are out in full force today.

He was visibly intoxicated, he had a knife and a history of run ins. Justified stop.

He threatened officers lives days prior, he had a knife. Weapon drawn on approach also justified.

He was shot in the side(Edge stance/position), not the back, and the blade locking mechanism was broken, the blade is swinging on a hinge, merely dropping the knife, or picking it up is enough to open/close the blade. (In response the the blade open/close dispute)

Williams was WELL within 21ft, if you don't know the significance of this then google it. If Williams made any indication of a threat, verbal or otherwise, the shooting should, and will be ruled justified.
 

Josh123

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2002
3,030
2
76
Ok seriously, he should have identified himself or something rather than saying "Hey you put the knife down!". I mean seriously, who wouldn't turn around to see who is yelling at you? That and was it really necessary to fire that many times? Hell, he shouldn't have even fired any rounds at all. It's sad it only took that many seconds to end this man's life.

If the cop got close enough to be in danger then that makes him a complete dumbass. Are officers really trained to shoot first, ask question's later in these situations?
 

Josh123

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2002
3,030
2
76
Wow, the anti cops are out in full force today.

He was visibly intoxicated, he had a knife and a history of run ins. Justified stop.

He threatened officers lives days prior, he had a knife. Weapon drawn on approach also justified.

He was shot in the side(Edge stance/position), not the back, and the blade locking mechanism was broken, the blade is swinging on a hinge, merely dropping the knife, or picking it up is enough to open/close the blade. (In response the the blade open/close dispute)

Williams was WELL within 21ft, if you don't know the significance of this then google it. If Williams made any indication of a threat, verbal or otherwise, the shooting should, and will be ruled justified.

Shouldn't the officer have stayed behind his car before advacing then? Looks like he put himself in a bad situation.
 

bas1c

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
325
1
71
Wow, the anti cops are out in full force today.

He was visibly intoxicated, he had a knife and a history of run ins. Justified stop.

He threatened officers lives days prior, he had a knife. Weapon drawn on approach also justified.

He was shot in the side(Edge stance/position), not the back, and the blade locking mechanism was broken, the blade is swinging on a hinge, merely dropping the knife, or picking it up is enough to open/close the blade. (In response the the blade open/close dispute)

Williams was WELL within 21ft, if you don't know the significance of this then google it. If Williams made any indication of a threat, verbal or otherwise, the shooting should, and will be ruled justified.

Justified stop? Yeah, I think it's okay to stop and question him. His history of run-ins? This officer might not have even known him or recognized him. If he had, he probably wouldn't have shot him. Again, the threats he made on the officers the 4 days before does not matter. It did not factor into the officer's split second decision because he probably did not know who the "perp" was; all he saw was a quick look at his profile and his back.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
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Shouldn't the officer have stayed behind his car before advacing then? Looks like he put himself in a bad situation.

Short answer, no, its not his job to hide behind his car.

Long answer, if he put himself in a compromising situation, he can receive disciplinary action, but he did nothing criminal or against SOP in approaching the individual.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,960
8,204
126
Link that says the lock is broken? Also, I'm fairly familiar with locking blade knives. On all the ones I have, the lock is just a safety, and the blade closing after being dropped is highly improbable.
 

Josh123

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2002
3,030
2
76
Short answer, no, its not his job to hide behind his car.

Long answer, if he put himself in a compromising situation, he can receive disciplinary action, but he did nothing criminal or against SOP in approaching the individual.

Of course it's not his job to hid behind his car, but it is his job to maintain safety correct? He obviously put himself in a compromising situation if he had to fire his gun.
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
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walking around with a knife open in public != minding your own business.

Really? Are you saying that no matter what innocuous and mundane activity you are performing, if you do it with a knife it becomes everyone's business? I don't understand that.

A knife is just a tool. It only becomes a weapon when it is wielded as a weapon. There are in fact many other items you could walk around with without raising any eyebrows at all that would make more effective weapons when wielded as such. It makes no sense to single out a knife, especially one so specialized that it could hardly be used for anything other than its intended purpose, as even being of passing interest to anyone in the way that you imply.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
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Link that says the lock is broken? Also, I'm fairly familiar with locking blade knives. On all the ones I have, the lock is just a safety, and the blade closing after being dropped is highly improbable.

This is a better link than the one I originally found, it explains in a much higher level of detail. I had pictured a walmart knife that was moving freely, either way, the controversy on the knife open/close is enough that I won't be making judgements on it.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013497943_policeshooting23m.html

In an Oct. 1 report, Northwest Laboratories found the lock mechanism on the knife would "not fully engage when the knife was opened slowly, but when the knife was opened with a little force or quickly the lock mechanism fully engaged most times."

The lab found some separation of the handle at the end of the knife could be "contributing to the lock mechanism not fully engaging."

It also noted a "machined angle" on the blade where the lock mechanism engaged, which "may be inhibiting the lock mechanism from fully engaging, as the lock mechanism catches at this ridge."

"When the lock mechanism did not fully engage, only minimal force was required to close the blade," the lab report said. "When the lock mechanism is fully engaged, the blade could not be closed."

Birk's attorney, Ted Buck, said Monday night that the test results on what he called an "old worn-out knife" open a "spectrum of possibilities" of how the knife became closed.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
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Williams was WELL within 21ft, if you don't know the significance of this then google it. If Williams made any indication of a threat, verbal or otherwise, the shooting should, and will be ruled justified.

I get it, cops have a tough job and they dont know when a situation will take a turn for the worse. So they have to have their guard up all the time. I get it. But there's no reason for you to blindly defend cops, even the bad seeds. As for your argument above, the cop is the one that approached him. The cop could have easily stayed out of the 21' boundary if that was his concern. LAME LAME excuse.
 
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FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
76
Of course it's not his job to hid behind his car, but it is his job to maintain safety correct? He obviously put himself in a compromising situation if he had to fire his gun.

So what did you want him to do? Call SWAT? Jack Bauer?
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
76
Stop being a bad cop apologist. I get it, cops have a tough job and they dont know when a situation will take a turn for the worse. So they have to have their guard up all the time. I get it. But there's no reason for you to blindly defend cops, even the bad seeds. As for your argument above, the cop is the one that approached him. The cop could have easily stayed out of the 21' boundary if that was his concern. LAME LAME excuse.

Gotcha, cops should call swat when a intoxicated suspect has a knife and it raises questions.

And you obviously don't understand the 21ft rule, its not a rule so officers know to stay away 21ft. :rolleyes:
 

bas1c

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
325
1
71
I've read these type of cop threads for years on this forum and it still never ceases to amaze me how stupid both sides are. Why we can't look at each incident on an individual basis befuddles me. I am under the presumption that most of us on this forum are against judging people based on skin color or stereotypes but those same people seem to have no problems making sweeping statements about cops, good or bad.

Are there bad cops? Of course. Anyone who blindly defends a cop just because he/she is a cop is an idiot. Are the majority of the cops out there good and are good people? Yes. Of course you are going to see news reports of cops being bad...because it's news. How many times are cops shown on TV for the good things they do everyday? Don't base your negative opinion on media reports when all they usually report are negative or controversial things. Or maybe you had a few bad run-ins with cops...so the f what? That doesn't mean every single cop out there is bad. Stop being a retard.

In this case, there was a more than likely chance that the cop overreacted and used extremely poor judgment. All this talk about knife fighters and shit is pointless. Look at the guy in the video as he walks by. Does he look threatening to you at first glance or that he could be a threat? Not in my opinion. Was the perp given adequate time to respond to the officer's commands? No. Would most people turn around and try to face someone yelling at him, yes. Did he get a chance? No, he was shot in the back and side. This whole thread is fucking stupid.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,960
8,204
126
In this case, there was a more than likely chance that the cop overreacted and used extremely poor judgment. All this talk about knife fighters and shit is pointless. Look at the guy in the video as he walks by. Does he look threatening to you at first glance or that he could be a threat? Not in my opinion. Was the perp given adequate time to respond to the officer's commands? No. Would most people turn around and try to face someone yelling at him, yes. Did he get a chance? No, he was shot in the back and side. This whole thread is fucking stupid.

That's a reasonable analysis.
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
7
76

I mean the video of the cop "gunning him down".

Read carefully what I posted:

Williams was WELL within 21ft, if you don't know the significance of this then google it. If Williams made any indication of a threat, verbal or otherwise, the shooting should, and will be ruled justified.

Am I the only one capable of not making presumptions? I am merely pointing out that this is not a cut and dry case as you all seem to think it is.