YACT can someone please explain dealer holdback ?

[leeland]

We are looking at a 2004 honda accord ex V6 on closeout....


Right now honda has 1300 dollars on factory to dealer incentive...which he tried to lie about and say it was only 500 dollars


We are trading in our car which he is also trying to rape us on...he gave a price around 2000 dollars under the trade-in value from KBB and edmunds...it is a mitubishi eclipse GT loaded in great condition...

So anyways the price of the car on edmunds is about 24,800 and then you subtract the rebate of 1300 and it comes down to 23,580 which is what they have it listed for

So he says to me that the lowest they can go is 23,300 so that they can make 300 dollars on it and the tradein that he left off with was around 8900...

I think he is full of it that they would only make 300 dollars on the car but need some hard info to counter his statement

any info on how I could counter their lowest price would be appreciated


Thanks,

Leeland

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/...munds.g.home.header..4.*

edited

 

[leeland]

Thanks for the link,

Here is a good article I found

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/...es/holdback/index.html

 

[TechnoKid]

If you are only getting 6900 for your trade in, theyre gonna sell it for more (likely the 8900 you said) so that ~$2000profit they make just off of your trade in.

23,300 for a 2004 (includes the $1300 manufacturer to dealer incentive) is ok i suppose for the 2004, but a 2005 is 27,215 MSRP, and 24,538 invoice (23,721 dealer cost with the 3% hold back). This is assuming your going for the EX V6 sedan with leather (no nav).

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: leeland
We are looking at a 2004 honda accord ex V6 on closeout....


Right now honda has 1300 dollars on factory to dealer incentive...which he tried to lie about and say it was only 500 dollars


We are trading in our car which he is also trying to rape us on...he gave a price around 2000 dollars under the trade-in value from KBB and edmunds...it is a mitubishi eclipse GT loaded in great condition...

So anyways the price of the car on edmunds is about 24,800 and then you subtract the rebate of 1300 and it comes down to 23,580 which is what they have it listed for

So he says to me that the lowest they can go is 23,300 so that they can make 300 dollars on it and the tradein that he left off with was around 8900...

I think he is full of it that they would only make 300 dollars on the car but need some hard info to counter his statement

any info on how I could counter their lowest price would be appreciated


Thanks,

Leeland

FIND NEW DEALER

Factory rebvates DO NOT IMPACT PROFITS OF DEALERS!

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: TechnoKid
If you are only getting 6900 for your trade in, theyre gonna sell it for more (likely the 8900 you said) so that ~$2000profit they make just off of your trade in.

23,300 for a 2004 (includes the $1300 manufacturer to dealer incentive) is ok i suppose for the 2004, but a 2005 is 27,215 MSRP, and 24,538 invoice (23,721 dealer cost with the 3% hold back). This is assuming your going for the EX V6 sedan with leather (no nav).

I second that. I did one trade in so far just for convenience.

What I learned. Taking the 1-2 hours to learn how to sell on your own will put $1000+ in your pocket! I think it's worth the headache.

Also, goes to carsdirect.com and print out hte price you'll ge tfrom them. Go to dealer and pay no more than $300 on top of htat price. If they say no, just go online and order it. Pick it up at that dealer

 

[PingSpike]

Find another dealer and then play them against eachother.

 

[ElFenix]

don't sell your car to the dealer

walk away if you don't get the deal you want.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
don't sell your car to the dealer

walk away if you don't get the deal you want.

Yep. Always be prepared to walk. Remember, they want to sell you a car.

 

[Bryophyte]

I've heard that dealers make more money from the trade-ins than they do from the sale of the new car. Keep that in mind.

 

[leeland]

Originally posted by: Bryophyte
I've heard that dealers make more money from the trade-ins than they do from the sale of the new car. Keep that in mind.

Oh totally, I know we will get screwed on the deal I am just trying to get around 10000 for the car, the most they offered after an hour of haggling was 9300....and he dropped the price of the car to 23300

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

FIND NEW DEALER

Factory rebvates DO NOT IMPACT PROFITS OF DEALERS!

So based on what I have said what price would you say is fair ? On Cars direct.com it gives the invoice price of 24300

so that would bring the price down to around 23000 ? does that sound right ?


leeland


as for knowing or learning how to sell our car I guess I am looking for any pointers that you guys found worked for you when haggling about the price since they like to give to you up the arse when haggling...

They gave me all sorts of lame excuses...oh the market is flooded...we are going to actually loose money on selling your car....this is the best we can do....

We got up and walked away...and he took our number...so we will see if he calls I guess

Incidently I found another one that was a demo...the same exact car V6 w/ leather that has 3800 miles on it and the best price he gave me over email was 22800

I kinda had to laugh at that since I could get a brand new one for 500 dollars more as it stands now...I guess I might have a better chance working the other dealer down...

Hopefully we can go and look at the other car this weekend

 

[Conky]

If you get the demo it is still considered a new car and the warranty would start at 3800 miles, so if it had a 60,000 mile warranty it wouldn't expire until 63,800 miles.

Contrary to popular opinion, dealers do not get "demo discounts or allowances" as the the only difference between a demo and a new car to a dealer is the miles on it.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
If you get the demo it is still considered a new car and the warranty would start at 3800 miles, so if it had a 60,000 mile warranty it wouldn't expire until 63,800 miles.

Contrary to popular opinion, dealers do not get "demo discounts or allowances" as the the only difference between a demo and a new car to a dealer is the miles on it.

Bullsh!t. I would not buy a demo car cause people drive the piss out of them. I should know; the last two cars I test drove got a real workout from me, Evo and Legacy GT.

EDIT: You may say those cars are driven harder then an Accord. Well, when I testdrove a Civic once I had a salesman telling me to take it to redline so I could "feel the VTEC". Sorry, unless its an Si I'm not gonna feel any VTEC.

 

[sniperruff]

look at the thread that i have posted couple of days ago maybe?

 

[leeland]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
If you get the demo it is still considered a new car and the warranty would start at 3800 miles, so if it had a 60,000 mile warranty it wouldn't expire until 63,800 miles.

Contrary to popular opinion, dealers do not get "demo discounts or allowances" as the the only difference between a demo and a new car to a dealer is the miles on it.

Bullsh!t. I would not buy a demo car cause people drive the piss out of them. I should know; the last two cars I test drove got a real workout from me, Evo and Legacy GT.

EDIT: You may say those cars are driven harder then an Accord. Well, when I testdrove a Civic once I had a salesman telling me to take it to redline so I could "feel the VTEC". Sorry, unless its an Si I'm not gonna feel any VTEC.

I guess I should be a bit more specific, the way the dealer made it sound to me is that it is being driven by one of the managers...don't know if that means much or not...

from that other thread listed below is a good blurb on how to get the ball rolling I might try...and see how it goes

Quote:
Dear Sales Manager,
I will be purchasing the xxx within the next few days. I know that your dealership will receive a $xxx factory-to-dealer incentive, and the invoice price is $xxxxx. I will purchase this vehicle from the dealership that offers me the lowest price within the next 48 hours. Please call me with your offer.

This actually worked really well. Without doing any haggling or even going to a single dealership I got 15 offers within 12 hours of sending off the faxes. The invoice on the car I was looking for was around $17100, and I got offers between $15500 and $18500 (inlcuding everything but tax). I called up the dealership with the lowest price, they drew up the paperwork and set the car aside for me, and I went to pick it up. Easy. They didn't like me particularly, but I don't particularly like most car dealerships either, so I didn't mind.

End Quote:

 

[NuclearNed]

My local Honda dealership is notorious for not wanting to deal with you. Maybe it is company-wide?

And in general, car salesmen:

1) think you are stupid
2) don't want to come down as much as you want them to come down
3) will never let you know how much they CAN come down
4) will lie to you about how much money they are making from a sale
5) think you are stupid

Want a better deal than they are offering you? Walk out the door. They will either offer you a better deal immediately, or they will call you in a day or two. If they don't call you, then they don't think you were actually serious about purchasing from them.

 

[AmigaMan]

Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

 

[leeland]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
My local Honda dealership is notorious for not wanting to deal with you. Maybe it is company-wide?

And in general, car salesmen:

1) think you are stupid
2) don't want to come down as much as you want them to come down
3) will never let you know how much they CAN come down
4) will lie to you about how much money they are making from a sale
5) think you are stupid

Want a better deal than they are offering you? Walk out the door. They will either offer you a better deal immediately, or they will call you in a day or two. If they don't call you, then they don't think you were actually serious about purchasing from them.

Great points...

One last question...when you find out the invoice price on a vehicle...for instance this honda I am looking at I have found an invoice price of 23750

Does having a factory to dealer rebate affect the profit of a dealer ? I know that sound slike a silly question but it is kinda confusing...here is what I have come up with


MSPR 27000
Invoice 23700
HoldBack 3% of MSRP 810
--------------------------------------------------------------

Factory to Dealer rebate 1300
Dealer Cost 23700 - 810 = 22890
Cost - rebate 22890 - 1300 = 21590
--------------------------------------------------------------

Asking Price of the car 21600 to 22000


Is this a good use of my 3rd grade math ? Or would you think I am way off base ?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

now this is just stupid.

If they have your keys be a man and ask for them back. IF they refuse or take to long just call the police.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

Why the f would you give the dealer your keys?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

Why the f would you give the dealer your keys?

how else are they going to test drive it, etc?

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

Why the f would you give the dealer your keys?

how else are they going to test drive it, etc?

Huh? The dealers around here ask for your driver's license No way I'd hand my keys over to a dealer. Unless you're talking about test driving it without a salesman.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

Why the f would you give the dealer your keys?

how else are they going to test drive it, etc?

Huh? The dealers around here ask for your driver's license No way I'd hand my keys over to a dealer. Unless you're talking about test driving it without a salesman.

uhm. i think you are confused.


When trading in a car how do you expect them to give a price? they need to look at it and drive it etc. to do that they need your keys.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

Why the f would you give the dealer your keys?

how else are they going to test drive it, etc?

Huh? The dealers around here ask for your driver's license No way I'd hand my keys over to a dealer. Unless you're talking about test driving it without a salesman.

uhm. i think you are confused.


When trading in a car how do you expect them to give a price? they need to look at it and drive it etc. to do that they need your keys.

Oh. Well I'd be crazy to trade mine in. I thought you usually discussed price before doing anything regarding the trade in.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
Honda and Toyota stealerships are about the same as far as dealing. Domestic makers seem more willing because they don't sell as well. Just stick to your guns and if they don't counter offer or you just don't like the prices you're getting, WALK AWAY! Also, if they test drive your car, DO NOT LET THEM KEEP YOUR KEYS! I made this mistake and they kept me there forever. I finally got them to go down in price and got my truck, but it was a mental error on my part. If you have your keys, you can walk out at any time.

Why the f would you give the dealer your keys?

how else are they going to test drive it, etc?

Huh? The dealers around here ask for your driver's license No way I'd hand my keys over to a dealer. Unless you're talking about test driving it without a salesman.

uhm. i think you are confused.


When trading in a car how do you expect them to give a price? they need to look at it and drive it etc. to do that they need your keys.

Oh. Well I'd be crazy to trade mine in. I thought you usually discussed price before doing anything regarding the trade in.

as you should.

you should have 2 deals when buying a car. the price of the car you are buying and the price of the trade-in.

As i was trying to explain (must not be clear). The dealer needs the keys to your car to test drive it/check options/etc so they can get a dealer price for the car.

A tactic they use is to hold the keys so you can NOT leave (this is what Amigaman was getting at).


Hopefully this is clear enough.