YACT: brake upgrades for the racetrack

slikmunks

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
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and this thread is just to tell you guys how stoked i am and tell y'all what i'm going to do. comments/opinions/suggestions welcome.

I drive an '06 mazdaspeed6, and i've been to the track several times in my 89 fc3s, and once previously in my speed6... and that last time at buttonwillow, i was starting to get some brake fade midway through each day. SO, rather than getting a LOT of fade at Streets of Willow (a much more braking intensive track than buttonwillow), I decided to change around some goodies in my braking system.

I knew that I didn't need to go with a big brake kit (as was so enthusiastically encouraged by my co-workers) as my car stops pretty damn well stock (i think 60-0 is like 155ft, which amazingly isn't that much longer than a stock z06!!), i just needed to keep it from fading...

SO, i went with some EBC Greenstuff pads ($137) in the front and rear, ATE super blue brake fluid ($44) and technafit stainless steel braided brake lines ($99)... and for <$300, i have a braking MACHINE!

now the only thing else i have to worry about is tires... my stock bridgestone potenza re050's really weren't that bad of a tire... but my fronts are almost gone, and my rears, well... i should have rotated the tires, but i decided being a lazy ass would suffice... my rears probably still have like 1/3-1/2 the original tread... not rotating = ouchtown, population me.

so with tires (what good are brakes if your tires can't hold!?), i've decided to go with a set of the Falken Azenis RT-615's, the newer model of the older Falken Azenis Sports which they no longer make. I used to run those tires, and... they were awesome! let's hope these are just as good. Stock size is a 215-45-18, which they didn't have, but that's fine, i wanted a wider tire anyways. So i'm going with a 225-45-18 tire (sucks having only a 7" rim!). I would have gone with a 225-40-18, but my rim was 1/2" too small... D'OH!!

and so that's my story.

Cliff notes:
- going to racetrack, didn't want fade like last time.
- EBC greenstuff pads, better fluid, stainless steel braided brake lines
- tires not so much tread left
- going with a great set of tires (used to use a lot in auto-x)
- slikmunks = excited.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
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I run EBC greenstuff on a couple of cars - they're great. I used their reds once a few years ago for a track day and they were awesome.

I don't understand your tire sizes. How can a 225/45 fit fine but a 225/40 is too big? That makes no sense.

 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
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Honestly, I doubt you will be satisfied with the Greenstuff pads. They are NOT track pads. They are street/autox pads that will stop well the first couple stops but will not handle heat like real trackpads (like EBC Reds).

As for tires, unless you are an EXPERIENCED track guy, you should probably just drive on normal street tires for a while. The more sticky tires will just get you in more trouble when you do lose it.

BTW: Should you ignore my advice, I run the 615s and they are incredible. But I also run them because they are in the 70 range to replace. I don't think I would go with something so sticky (and wears so quickly) if it cost me 170. Unless you're made of money...
 

slikmunks

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: DougK62
I run EBC greenstuff on a couple of cars - they're great. I used their reds once a few years ago for a track day and they were awesome.

I don't understand your tire sizes. How can a 225/45 fit fine but a 225/40 is too big? That makes no sense.

the 225/40 doesn't have enough sidewall to accomodate for a 7" rim. The 45 profile has enough sidewall to allow the angle of adjustment to fit on a 7" rim

Originally posted by: Minjin
Honestly, I doubt you will be satisfied with the Greenstuff pads. They are NOT track pads. They are street/autox pads that will stop well the first couple stops but will not handle heat like real trackpads (like EBC Reds).

As for tires, unless you are an EXPERIENCED track guy, you should probably just drive on normal street tires for a while. The more sticky tires will just get you in more trouble when you do lose it.

BTW: Should you ignore my advice, I run the 615s and they are incredible. But I also run them because they are in the 70 range to replace. I don't think I would go with something so sticky (and wears so quickly) if it cost me 170. Unless you're made of money...

Here's the thing, i'm looking for a street/track pad, much like the Hawk HP+ i used to run on my rx-7. I would go with the Redstuff or better yet Hawk Blue's except i want driveability on the street too. I'm not looking for pads to put on and take off when i get to the track.

normal street tires would take the fun out of it. I've got a little experience under my belt... i.e. a few auto-x events, at least half a dozen days at streets of willow, 3 days at buttonwillow, 2 days at spring mountain and 1 awesome day at laguna seca. $170 isn't bad for the tire size, anything else comparable in grip is just as much if not more... for reference, the yoko avs es100's are 133+ship+mount/balance, and they are far inferior to the azenis... i've got them at 170, no tax, mounted... so i'd say it's not too bad :) But you're right, the price for tires on this car makes me want to get a set of lightweight 17's or continue to run only my rx-7 on the track (which runs 205/45/16's at probably the same price range as yours... the azenis 215's were like 67 per)
 

slikmunks

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Hmm, the brakes on my Maxima suck ass. I might have to consider a similar upgrade.

well, my upgrade is more for more resistance to brake fade... if you want to upgrade your stopping power, you might need to go a step beyond... altho i'd start with pads :) just wish they made the hawk hp+ for my car
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,459
854
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Originally posted by: slikmunks
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Hmm, the brakes on my Maxima suck ass. I might have to consider a similar upgrade.

well, my upgrade is more for more resistance to brake fade... if you want to upgrade your stopping power, you might need to go a step beyond... altho i'd start with pads :) just wish they made the hawk hp+ for my car

It's the brake fade that bugs me. 2-3 really aggressive stops and I can get them to fade noticeably. They stop the car well but the fade is horrible.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
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OOC- Do the Speed6's still suffer from heatsoaking? I know the first models had the TMIC which litterally sapped power from the vehicle.
 

slikmunks

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
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they still come with the TMIC, but i haven't had any really bad problems with heatsoaking. I don't think it was so much heatsoak that sapped all the power from the car before, it was an oversensitive knock sensor that kicked in when the car got a little warm and subsequently cut boost hence 'sapping power'. Mazda came out with an ecu flash a long time ago that took care of it :)
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: slikmunks
they still come with the TMIC, but i haven't had any really bad problems with heatsoaking. I don't think it was so much heatsoak that sapped all the power from the car before, it was an oversensitive knock sensor that kicked in when the car got a little warm and subsequently cut boost hence 'sapping power'. Mazda came out with an ecu flash a long time ago that took care of it :)

Ahh...that *could* have been it...but...I think it was determined that the TMIC is very inefficient...

But...I'm too lazy to search and I don't have a Speed6...love the car though. :)
 

slikmunks

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
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*shrugs* inefficient in certain ways, but efficient in others, otherwise they wouldn't have gone with the design.

iirc, mazda did it to shorten the path of air from the turbo to the combustion chamber, reducing the lag and improving response. they make an fmic kit for the car now, i just... don't really want to do too much while still under warranty :) hope they don't find out i'm trackin'!
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
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We run Hawk Blue pads on our Spec Miatas with shaved Toyo RA1s. We run unshaved sometimes too.

They can take hours and hours of thrashing no problem. We've run several endurance races in excess of 8 hrs without having to change tires or brakes.

I once bedded in a set of Hawk pads at night. There was a shower of sparks coming from the brakes - I thought I had installed them incorrectly. But that's how they are until they bed in. A very hard pad. Once you get the tires up to temp it feels like the car is going to stand on it's nose under hard braking - no fade in sight. Pretty much everybody else in our class in SCCA runs the Hawks as well.

I once worked corner flag at a club event - we had to black flag a guy in a Volvo who's brakes were on FIRE. He hadn't upgraded his pads.




 

slikmunks

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: CFster
We run Hawk Blue pads on our Spec Miatas with shaved Toyo RA1s. We run unshaved sometimes too.

They can take hours and hours of thrashing no problem. We've run several endurance races in excess of 8 hrs without having to change tires or brakes.

I once bedded in a set of Hawk pads at night. There was a shower of sparks coming from the brakes - I thought I had installed them incorrectly. But that's how they are until they bed in. A very hard pad. Once you get the tires up to temp it feels like the car is going to stand on it's nose under hard braking - no fade in sight. Pretty much everybody else in our class in SCCA runs the Hawks as well.

I once worked corner flag at a club event - we had to black flag a guy in a Volvo who's brakes were on FIRE. He hadn't upgraded his pads.

WHOAH! that's crazy... both the hawk blues and the volvo with its pads on fire!! hahaha...

yeah, i'd consider going blues if i had a spare set of rotors and i was considering swapping out brakes at the track... but i'm not quite that hardcore yet...

i'd love to see someone with their brakes on fire tho, that'd be awesome... or at least to see rotors glowing red (ok, initial D moment there, sorry, hahaha)
 

puffpio

Golden Member
Dec 21, 1999
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How often do you track?

If onyl a couple times a year..
Then maybe some Carbotech AX6 pads just for the track and swap them
And Motul RBF600 instead of ATE Super Blue... and just change brake fluid before each track day

If you track more often....does Stoptech make a BBK for the MS6?
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
CHANGE BRAKE FLUID!!!!!!! Oh and make sure you have separate brakes for the track and the street also just like tires. You don't want your nice new brakes to get eaten through daily driving. Hawk Pads FTW
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
Brake Fluid-Dry Boiling Point-Wet Boiling Point-Suggested List Price
AP SUPER 600-590°F-410°F-$18.00/16.9oz. .
CASTROL SRF-590°F-518°F-$69.99/33.8oz.
NEO SUPER DOT 610-610°F-421°F-$15.00/12oz.
MOTUL RACING 600-593°F-420°F-$15.00/16.9oz.
MOTUL DOT 5.1-509°F-365°F-$6.50/16.9oz.
ATE SUPER BLUE-536°F-392°F-$11.99/33.8oz
VALVOLINE SYNPOWER-503°F-343°F-$4.97/16.9oz.
ATE SL-500°F-329°F-$7.95/16.9oz.
CASTROL LMA-450°F-311°F-$3.50/16.9oz.
AP 551-528°F-288°F-$12.50/16.9oz.