YACT: at the end of my rope

[SelArom]

hi fellas, I need help.I have a pos 98 chevrolet cavalier, and there is something seriously messed up with it. Whenever I'm driving on a hot day, it will turn off as if it has run out of gas. I'll just be driving, and all of a sudden I'll feel the gas pedal pull, as if the car has run out of gas (which I assure you, it has not), then it will turn off. If I try to turn it on immediately, it will turn on, then sputter as if it is out of gas, then turn off. If I wait 5-10 minutes I can turn it on and it will drive for a while before it turns off. If I wait an hour or more usually it will last longer before dying...

but here's the thing, it only happens on hot days. It started doing it last summer around august and happened once or twice on really hot days. Then, all winter, it never happened at all. Now that summer is starting again, and it is hot, the car is dying again, the same exact way.

I've taken it to a mechanic and he put the computer on it, and found nothing wrong, and of course, I could not make the car replicate the problem. The temperature gauge never shows that it is overheating, but I think the gauges might be messed up, because sometimes the gas gauge will show empty, then it will jump up to full, then hover at halfway. WTF?!!!

does anybody have any ideas? some of the things I have done:

-changed air and fuel filter
-used fuel injection cleaners
-changed fuel pump and relay
-flushed cooling system
-prayed to many different gods
-cursed all of them when they don't help

your assistance is appreciated! oh and by the way, I know nothing about cars. I can change the oil and drive. that's about it.

 

[DrPizza]

Vapor lock in the fuel line? Try switching gas stations. The gas you're using might be a winter mix.

 

[Heisenberg]

Hmm...I was going to suggest the fuel pump might've been overheating, but if you've changed it...
If it is vapor lock, that's rather odd as it's virtually been eliminated in modern cars.

 

[Kalvin00]

It's vapor locking.. You might need to try wrapping some heat-protective material over the fuel lines...but that shouldn't happen with pressurized fuel lines..

 

[SelArom]

Originally posted by: Kalvin00
It's vapor locking, 100% gauranteed. You might need to try wrapping some heat-protective material over the fuel lines.

is this expensive to get done? how does it happen? why me? what did I do wrong? and thank you!!!

 

[DrPizza]

Here: quoted from a google search:

Vapor lock is caused by a heat buildup in the fuel line between the fuel
pump and carb which causes the liquid gasoline in the gas line to exceed
its vapor pressure point and vaporize. Fuel pumps are designed to pump
liquid and not vapor (I can't use the word gas - it would cause too much
confusion). Furthermore a liquid is "not" compressionable (I think that
is a word) and a gas-vapor can be compressed - thus no flow to the
carb/injectors.

Trail/Road side cures for vapor lock range from pouring ice-melt (from a
moutain stream/beer cooler) water over the fuel line running from the carb
to the fuel pump - to wrapping the gas line in aluminum foil (you can
wrap some ice cubes in the aluminum foil).

If you are suddenly a victim of vapor lock (and this has never happend
before to you), chances are the vapor lock was caused by your *last*
purchase of gasoline.

Gasoline refineries formulate automobile gas differently for summer as
opposed to winter.

If it is *real* cold outside - you want the gasoline spraying into your
intake manifold to vaporize very easily. Thus winter gas has a very low
vapor point.

That is *one* of the reasons methanol (which doesn't [easily] vaporize
below 60 degrees) has not replaced pump gasoline.

Conversely during hot weather - you want your fuel to not vaporize in the
fuel line but wait until it hits the pressure drop of being
sprayed/discharged into your intake manifold. Thus summer gasoline has a
very high vapor pressure point.

You ain't going to go - unless your fuel/air reaches a stoichiometric
ratio. <g>

Vapor pressure point is one of the things the state gasoline inspector
checks for when he inspects the service station gas pumps and gasoline for
sale.

If you happend to get a tank of *winter* gas during a warm snap, or drive
out of the high mountains into a vally with summer temperatures, the heat
buildup combined with bumper to bumper traffic, and the low vapor point of
the winter gas can cause vapor lock.

It is also possible to buy old (unsold) winter gas stock being sold during
warm weather. You won't see that advertised.

If you suffer from sudden vapor lock, after you get restarted - go to a
different gas station and purchase more gasoline.

One more thing - just because it says Exxon-Shell-Amoco doesn't mean that
is what you are purchasing. That is only the sign at the station - and
sometime(s) on the delivery truck.

The state inspectors don't check for brand of gasoline.

Hope this helps

Ted Borck

http://www.digest.net/ihc/archive/v6/msg02623.html

 

[DrPizza]

Not expensive to fix - not something that probably even needs to be fixed. However, your fuel line may becoming warmer than it should. The article I quoted suggested wrapping it in aluminum foil. That may be sufficient as it will slow the rate of heating to a level that perhaps the fuel can overcome.

 

[Pepsi90919]

about the fuel gauge, my 99 S-10 did the same thing, it's the sending unit. it will set a code in the computer, but not set the MIL.

you feel the gas pedal pull by itself? do you have cruise control?

 

[SelArom]

it couldn't possibly be the gas because everybody in my city would be parked on the side of the road with vapor lock. It gets DAMN hot down here, and I get this problem everytime, regardless of where I bought my gas. it will turn off on a hot day, always every single time.

wrap the fuel line in foil sounds doable, how much foil? how do I know where the fuel line is? should I just take it to a garage and have them do it?

thanks again fellas, I feel like there is hope again...

-SelArom

 

[Eli]

Vapor lock was my first guess too, but.. with a pressurized fuel system, can vapor lock even happen? If the vuel was vaporized in the line, the "bubble" of vapor would just move through, correct? Unless it's being vaporized on a wide scale.. but that seems weird.

Make sure your fuel lines aren't in contact with the exhaust manifold?

 

[SelArom]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
about the fuel gauge, my 99 S-10 did the same thing, it's the sending unit. it will set a code in the computer, but not set the MIL.

you feel the gas pedal pull by itself? do you have cruise control?

I feel the gas pedal pull when it's about to turn off, and sometimes when the air conditioner is on, the pedal will pull and the AC will blow warmer air. but my car doesn't have cruise control Sh!t it doesn't even have powerlocks or powerwindows!! and I can't open the back doors from the inside!!! and the tint is peeling off, and the rear-view mirror fell off twice. Oh and the TRUNK DOESN'T OPEN!!

-SelArom

 

[QuitBanningMe]

It can also be the ignition control

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: SelArom

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
about the fuel gauge, my 99 S-10 did the same thing, it's the sending unit. it will set a code in the computer, but not set the MIL.

you feel the gas pedal pull by itself? do you have cruise control?

I feel the gas pedal pull when it's about to turn off, and sometimes when the air conditioner is on, the pedal will pull and the AC will blow warmer air. but my car doesn't have cruise control Sh!t it doesn't even have powerlocks or powerwindows!! and I can't open the back doors from the inside!!! and the tint is peeling off, and the rear-view mirror fell off twice. Oh and the TRUNK DOESN'T OPEN!!

-SelArom

LMAO..

Sounds like a winner.

 

[SelArom]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
It can also be the ignition control

i had a problem with the ignition a while back. I had to take it to the dealer because the car wouldn't start. the lights would turn on, but when I turned the key, nothing, not a damn thing. nothing.... well sometimes the alarm would go off (I didn't even know it had an alarm!) I took it to the dealership and they replaced the ignition thing and it works now. but since then i have had this problem. it will not go away!!

what is the best thing to try first? I'm researching this online too and someone said it might be the gas cap? but that was replaced too, and it was problematic both before and after... pleh my car sucks balls

-SelArom

 

[Eli]

Sounds like a basketcase.....

Cut your losses and buy a 500$ 80s Civic, Camry, Corolla or Accord.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: SelArom

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
It can also be the ignition control

i had a problem with the ignition a while back. I had to take it to the dealer because the car wouldn't start. the lights would turn on, but when I turned the key, nothing, not a damn thing. nothing.... well sometimes the alarm would go off (I didn't even know it had an alarm!) I took it to the dealership and they replaced the ignition thing and it works now. but since then i have had this problem. it will not go away!!

what is the best thing to try first? I'm researching this online too and someone said it might be the gas cap? but that was replaced too, and it was problematic both before and after... pleh my car sucks balls

-SelArom

Replace the ignition control module?
It is either ignition control or a fuel pump unless you happen to have you fuel lines close to the manifold/ headers.

 

[flot]

You need to quit being such a whiney nutjob and try focusing on the actual current problem so people can help you.

It is almost physically impossible for anything to "pull" on your gas pedal if you don't have cruise control, so I'm not sure what that's all about.

You have left out any useful details, such as is there any evidence that the car is actually overheating? IE lost coolant, coolant on the ground, steam, etc. It isn't hard to tell if a car is on the verge of overheating, things will be ungodly hot under the hood. The fact that you said your A/C would turn off suggests this - as newer cars will often disengage the A/C as a last ditch attempt to save your engine from overheating if you are too dumb to save it yourself.

Vapor lock is possible but somewhat unlikely in a newer FI vehicle. You do not want to wrap your fuel lines with aluminum foil. You would wrap them with an aluminum backed heat rejecting tape. You will get laughed out of anywhere if you ask them to do this, so you may as well just skip this step.

It could be an electronic component under the hood overheating and screwing up - but until you are a little more rational in your debugging of the situation, you're not going to get any actual help online.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: SelArom

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
about the fuel gauge, my 99 S-10 did the same thing, it's the sending unit. it will set a code in the computer, but not set the MIL.

you feel the gas pedal pull by itself? do you have cruise control?

I feel the gas pedal pull when it's about to turn off, and sometimes when the air conditioner is on, the pedal will pull and the AC will blow warmer air. but my car doesn't have cruise control Sh!t it doesn't even have powerlocks or powerwindows!! and I can't open the back doors from the inside!!! and the tint is peeling off, and the rear-view mirror fell off twice. Oh and the TRUNK DOESN'T OPEN!!

-SelArom

well i think the only thing left that would pull on the throttle is the IAC... but that only turns the butterfly valve and probably wouldn't be noticeable anyway.

 

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: Eli
Sounds like a basketcase.....

Cut your losses and buy a 500$ 80s Civic, Camry, Corolla or Accord.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: SelArom

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
It can also be the ignition control

i had a problem with the ignition a while back. I had to take it to the dealer because the car wouldn't start. the lights would turn on, but when I turned the key, nothing, not a damn thing. nothing.... well sometimes the alarm would go off (I didn't even know it had an alarm!) I took it to the dealership and they replaced the ignition thing and it works now. but since then i have had this problem. it will not go away!!

what is the best thing to try first? I'm researching this online too and someone said it might be the gas cap? but that was replaced too, and it was problematic both before and after... pleh my car sucks balls

-SelArom

Are you saying the syptoms started around the time your ignition system was worked on?

 

[SelArom]

Originally posted by: flot
You need to quit being such a whiney nutjob and try focusing on the actual current problem so people can help you.

It is almost physically impossible for anything to "pull" on your gas pedal if you don't have cruise control, so I'm not sure what that's all about.

You have left out any useful details, such as is there any evidence that the car is actually overheating? IE lost coolant, coolant on the ground, steam, etc. It isn't hard to tell if a car is on the verge of overheating, things will be ungodly hot under the hood. The fact that you said your A/C would turn off suggests this - as newer cars will often disengage the A/C as a last ditch attempt to save your engine from overheating if you are too dumb to save it yourself.

Vapor lock is possible but somewhat unlikely in a newer FI vehicle. You do not want to wrap your fuel lines with aluminum foil. You would wrap them with an aluminum backed heat rejecting tape. You will get laughed out of anywhere if you ask them to do this, so you may as well just skip this step.

It could be an electronic component under the hood overheating and screwing up - but until you are a little more rational in your debugging of the situation, you're not going to get any actual help online.

heh, I can't apologize for the complaining (if you had my car, you wouldn't either) but i will try to be more specific (as much as I can, not knowing anything about cars)

i don't see any evidence of overheating, but I'm not sure where to look. I've never seen steam nor have I ever seen any evidence of leaking. the A/C turning off has only happened once or twice, but I won't rule out overheating, because it does seem like that is what is happening.

vapor lock sounded like a likely culprit, but I can't see how it would happen EVERY time that it gets hot. It's really weird, because it didn't happen once all winter, except once when it was exceptionally hot. but wouldn't they have found something when they worked on the cooling system? they told me there WAS a leak but it kept happening even after they fixed it...

Are you saying the syptoms started around the time your ignition system was worked on?

I think so, but honestly I don't remember. like i said there was a time when the car wouldn't even start, and we didn't use it for maybe six months... but it was turning off before that happened.

it seems to be getting worse every time it happens. it happens more frequently and I have to wait longer before it will start again. of course, it is also getting hotter (damn global warming).

should I have the cooling system checked again?

again thank you!

-SelArom

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Again I would place my bet on an ignition or fuel delivery problem. Fuel pump (even if replaced), ignition control module, plug wires, etc.

 

[IGBT]

..I had a ford ranger that did that..lousey dealer kept returning it..no trouble found. So I got the shop manual and discovered a thermally defective device called a TFI ignition module..mounted on the distributor (Thin Film Ignition)..part of the Hall effect ignition system. Replaced it and the prob.cleared..but those fuggen TFI modules would only last 30k or so because of all the heat from the rear mounted distributor. I hear ford was sued over them things..and Malory made a harness for it so you could mount the thing away from all the heat. I got rid of the ranger..cheap trashy POS.

 

[alm99]

Originally posted by: SelArom

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
about the fuel gauge, my 99 S-10 did the same thing, it's the sending unit. it will set a code in the computer, but not set the MIL.

you feel the gas pedal pull by itself? do you have cruise control?

I feel the gas pedal pull when it's about to turn off, and sometimes when the air conditioner is on, the pedal will pull and the AC will blow warmer air. but my car doesn't have cruise control Sh!t it doesn't even have powerlocks or powerwindows!! and I can't open the back doors from the inside!!! and the tint is peeling off, and the rear-view mirror fell off twice. Oh and the TRUNK DOESN'T OPEN!!

-SelArom

Child safety locks on?

 

[SelArom]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
Again I would place my bet on an ignition or fuel delivery problem. Fuel pump (even if replaced), ignition control module, plug wires, etc.

so it's not likely vapor lock? what should I attack first? I'm worried if I take it to a mechanic they'll just say I need to fix everything, and I can't argue because I don't know. fuel delivery problem sounds likely but why does it only happen when it's hot?

-SelArom