YACT: 2 bad head gaskets...Do I need this extra stuff too?

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
As of the past 8 or so months I've noticed that I've had to keep refilling the antifreeze in my 97 ford explorer (4.0 liter v6, 92 thousand miles). The first time I noticed I needed antifreeze was when my engine overheated while on the highway...the temp gauge was all the way up in the red. I pulled into a gas station, popped the hood and noticed that the coolant reservoir was empty. I filled it and when the engine was cooler, I started it and noticed the car pulling antifreeze from the reservoir. All good I thought. Well since that time, the truck has overheated one more time under the same circumstances. Since then I've been very good on keeping that antifreeze filled to the top.

Fast forward to yesterday, I go t get my oil changed and ask the guy to look at the engine, see why I keep needing antifreeze. He comes back and says I have a leaking head gasket. I go to my main mechanic who gets the truck on the lift and shows me antifreeze encrustations underneath the exhaust manifolds where the cylinder heads meet the block. And on both sides. So we know know its 2 bad head gaskets.

The real question: He goes on to say that he would like to do a valve job since the heads are going to be off the engine anyway. He keeps saying its beneficial and it should be done bah blah blah given the age of the truck. I told him I would think about it. He says since the engine has been pushed to overheat, he might have to shave the cylinder heads.

So what do u guys think? I plan to run this truck into the ground before buying somethgn new. The body still looks great, no rust at all and so far this is the first major problem I have had with this truck. Hopefully if I can run this truck for 2 or 3 more years, maybe to 150 thou miles I'll be satisfied. I don't want to spend more than I have to and I know the heads must come off the engine anyway. But what about the valve job and shaving the heads? Is this really needed?

Cliff notes:
Engine leaks antifreeze due to 2 blown head gaskets and overheats.
I keep adding antifreeze to stay on top of it.
Get car checked out and confirms 2 bad head gaskets
Mechanic wants to do a valve job and shaving cylinder heads
Do I need this extra stuff?
 

GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
6,986
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At first incident you should have had it checked. For future reference, there is an inexpensive kit to check for byproducts of combustion in the coolant. This would indicate a head seal problem.

Yes, do a valve job. Yes, have the heads surfaced. They will warp from overheating and will be less apt to leak again if surfaced.
 

Carver1

Senior member
Dec 9, 2003
330
0
76
Valve job isn't that much since he is taking the heads off anyway. He is just trying to help you out in the future while the engine is apart. get everything in writing before he works on it.
I was a mechanic for 10 years. I can look at it and let you know if the estimate is fair.
 

jonMEGA

Golden Member
May 21, 2001
1,232
0
0
hot tank the heads
check for cracks
mill the heads so they are true again

depends if you valves still hold a seal, alot of times if you get the valves done it will increase the combustion chamber pressure causing ring blow-by
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
if your x is the 4.0 sohc, then i cant help you

if its the 4.0 ohv motor, then the block between the valves is notorious for cracking.

I wouldnt necessarily do a complete valve job since that has a tendency to make the motor start burning oil (sucks oil past weak rings), but I would probably lap them.

Definitely take the heads to a shop and have them clean them up (hot tank or citrus) and ensure they are flat.

I'm going through this right now with a 92 X. The heads are crap.

 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
Thanks for the answers so far. Slag...I never heard of this problem with the block between the valves cracking. Its not a SOHC from what i can tell...pretty sure the OHV engine is installed in 97 trucks.
 

Quixfire

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2001
6,892
0
0
The heads are prone to crack between the valves when overheated, not the block on the 4.0L OHV engine. It's common on engines over 85K miles to have the valves ground and the head straighten if needed. The shop your mechanic sends the heads to should check for cracks first before reconditioning them, if cracks are found then you will have to get new or reman heads.
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
just make sure you didn't get anti-freeze in the oil. engine bearings don't like that and if you did...bye bye engine
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Yes with that many miles you need to have the heads checked out and gone through by a good machine shop. They will not only regrond the the valves, but replaces the seals, check for cracks, check for flatness, etc....


If you have this done the motor should give you a good amount more life it has been taken care of.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
The mechanic gave me a ballpark estimate of $1000+ He'll get back to me today with an actual estimate.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
Originally posted by: Quixfire
The heads are prone to crack between the valves when overheated, not the block on the 4.0L OHV engine. It's common on engines over 85K miles to have the valves ground and the head straighten if needed. The shop your mechanic sends the heads to should check for cracks first before reconditioning them, if cracks are found then you will have to get new or reman heads.

there is no block between the valves.. what i meant to type is the "area" between the valves.. sorry for that confusion
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
Originally posted by: NetWareHead
The mechanic gave me a ballpark estimate of $1000+ He'll get back to me today with an actual estimate.

OUCH.. A grand?

I'm doing it myself. a new set of heads ran me $140.00 (i got a helluva deal on them). I got them cleaned and trued and the shop did a valve job with new seats for free for $130.00. I bought a complete headgasket set (all gaskets for intake and everything along with new plugs, wires, thermostat, oil, filter, etc for $200.00

Going to put it back together this weekend hopefully.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: NetWareHead
The mechanic gave me a ballpark estimate of $1000+ He'll get back to me today with an actual estimate.

OUCH.. A grand?

I'm doing it myself. a new set of heads ran me $140.00 (i got a helluva deal on them). I got them cleaned and trued and the shop did a valve job with new seats for free for $130.00. I bought a complete headgasket set (all gaskets for intake and everything along with new plugs, wires, thermostat, oil, filter, etc for $200.00

Going to put it back together this weekend hopefully.
How difficult a job is it, if the person has a manual?
 

Quixfire

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2001
6,892
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0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: NetWareHead
The mechanic gave me a ballpark estimate of $1000+ He'll get back to me today with an actual estimate.

OUCH.. A grand?

I'm doing it myself. a new set of heads ran me $140.00 (i got a helluva deal on them). I got them cleaned and trued and the shop did a valve job with new seats for free for $130.00. I bought a complete headgasket set (all gaskets for intake and everything along with new plugs, wires, thermostat, oil, filter, etc for $200.00

Going to put it back together this weekend hopefully.
How difficult a job is it, if the person has a manual?
The 4.0L OHV V6 isn't a bad engine to work on. There are a few tight nut and bolts to get to , but someone with a manual and a set of standard tools, including a torque wrench, should be able to do it in a weekend.

 

bernse

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2000
3,229
0
0
Redoing the heads? If you have to ask I wouldn't recomend it.

Get another estimate to be sure, but the mechanic sounds legit and fair enough.

So far what you've said doesn't sound like BS to me at all.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
replacing heads isnt that hard. You have to know what you are doing though because its easy to get lost. Some things you must do are replace head bolts, label and keep together the pushrods (keep them in order for each engine side), things have to be moved out of the way. (ac compressor, remove radiator for room, alternator, ps pump, etc)

Then getting the exhaust manifold bolts off can be a real pita as well... It took me about 3 hours to get down to the cylinders. I imagine putting it back together will be a 5-6 hour job to make sure i get it correct.

4 of my 6 cylinders had water in them. The intake manifold was on only finger tight.

While I have the entire intake off, I'm performing spring cleaning on it. I have a parts washer in my garage, but brake cleaner sure makes the job easier...

 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
Update:

The mechanic got back to me and will charge $1200. This includes all new parts, new bolts, new gaskets etc... mill the heads and a valve job. I went to some other place and that guy quoted me at $1500 plus he'll need the truck for 6 days...4 of those days the heads will be at the machine shop. The cheaper guy can get the truck tommorow morning and hopefully will have it ready after 2 days.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
Also I think its a good thing I got the truck looked at because in the past week the truck has been sipping antifreeze like a fish. To me the problem is definitely getting worse. I put an entire gallon into the reservoir about 10 days ago and I already need to buy another one. Also, I needed to take the truck for inspection on Saturday and it passed emmissions. My mechanic told me that the valves and seats are still in good shape because of that. Anyway I'll probably bring the truck to the cheaper mechanic. Thanks for all the advice guys.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: NetWareHead
The mechanic gave me a ballpark estimate of $1000+ He'll get back to me today with an actual estimate.

OUCH.. A grand?

I'm doing it myself. a new set of heads ran me $140.00 (i got a helluva deal on them). I got them cleaned and trued and the shop did a valve job with new seats for free for $130.00. I bought a complete headgasket set (all gaskets for intake and everything along with new plugs, wires, thermostat, oil, filter, etc for $200.00

Going to put it back together this weekend hopefully.
How difficult a job is it, if the person has a manual?

It's mostly labor. You have to remove the intake manifold, exhaust manifold and the heads themselves. Lots of wiring harnesses and hoses and stuff needs to be disconnected and reconnected as well. Head gaskets themselves probably cost less than $100 and the machine work on the heads will probably add a $100-200 I'm guessing.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
Originally posted by: NetWareHead
Update:

The mechanic got back to me and will charge $1200. This includes all new parts, new bolts, new gaskets etc... mill the heads and a valve job. I went to some other place and that guy quoted me at $1500 plus he'll need the truck for 6 days...4 of those days the heads will be at the machine shop. The cheaper guy can get the truck tommorow morning and hopefully will have it ready after 2 days.


1200 isnt bad at all, the valve job isnt really that necessary imho, but i never worked on pushrod or a ford so i have no clue how long do those things last (blown head gaskets at 92k.... im never buying a ford) . As for milling heads, make sure that he checks for cracks and measure the specs - they arent necessarily warped.