YA< LCD >T

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
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Ok... so I have about a month to put together my new PC. The only thing I am having difficulty choosing is the monitor. It will be an LCD since I'm headed to college and extra space/portability = good.

Basically, the strategy I've been trying to follow for the whole build is to get the best performance to pricing ratio possible on each part. IOW, I'm looking for cheap to moderately priced stuff that performs well.

Originally I planned to get a $330 19" monitor like the L90D+ but have rethinking that lately. I'm wondering if a cheaper 17" monitor would work just as well. And I'm sorely tempted to get the Dell 1704FPT after seeing that I can get it for $206. I know I would be alright with a 17" since I'm used to running 1280x1024 on a 17" CRT. And finally, a third option would be something like the Viewsonic VP171 which is $320 but has better viewing angles and I think it's an 8-bit panel which the L90 isnt. Like always, I'd appreciate any input at all.
 

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
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Yeah, that happens to another one I was looking at but didnt bother mentioning. I'll add it to the poll.
 

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
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There is something funny about the specs of the Fuji Plus Fp988d. The pixel pitch should not be 0.264 mm for a 19" monitor at 1280 x 1024. The pixel size should be around 0.294 mm. Probably a typo, but it gives this spec twice - in the title and in the description.

It looks like a good deal - 8-bit color and a fast monitor.
 

o2brew

Member
Feb 26, 2004
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I believe I read that the vp171 is a 6-bit TN panel. The vp191 on the other hand is an 8-bit panel.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
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i prefer 17" to 19".

better dot pitch, cheaper and the same resolution 1280x1024.

i dont know but in my opinion there is no point in getting a 19" especially if you are young and have decent eye sight. if you are going over 19" think about going for a 20". the vp191b is a very nice lcd (the vp192 is 6bit i think, so go for the 191) but its very expensive like $450.
 

ChuckHsiao

Member
Apr 22, 2005
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Yes the pixel pitch should be 0.294 mm not 0.264 mm. However, last I checked, the company still said it's 0.264 mm. That's simply wrong. 19" LCDs with 1280 x 1024 resolution are 0.294 mm, period. That's pretty much standardized nowadays.

I always say, watch out for mail-in rebate scams. Fuji Plus is getting a lot of attention right now because it's a budget monitor (there's nothing wrong with budget monitors, btw, I recommend them if you don't need anything special) that's super cheap via a mail-in rebate. Whether it's really an advertising campaign where they're willing to take a loss to get some attention, or just another scam, is something that we simply won't know for a couple of months. They're a company I never heard of before this promotion, though from their website apparently they've been around for a while. But quite a few budget companies do this; they don't have a reputation to uphold (which is why companies like Dell and Samsung are more likely to honor their rebates), and they're counting on people never getting around to demanding a rebate three months later, or simply ignoring rebate requests, and counting on people giving up and deciding it's not worth the hassle. So it's a good choice if you're willing to harass them about rebates until they give it to you. If you're the type to forget about it, then it's probably not a good choice. If you do go for it, be sure to document everything -- copy the UPC, the completed rebate form, etc., and send it via registered mail so they can't claim they lost it. The more you go out of your way to prove you followed everything to the letter, the less excuses they can give to not give you your rebate.

A further note about this. I have yet to see a mail-in rebate from a budget company that says they will deliver within say 6-8 weeks (or less). Most are over 10 weeks (Fuji Plus's is "10 to 15 weeks" which really means customers aren't likely to complain until after 15 weeks). Do you really think it takes that long to process a rebate, or it takes that long for the mail to arrive? This might not sound important at first, but since you're likely purchasing your order via credit card, most credit card companies only allow disputes for up to 60 days after the purchase. That means that the company set the rebate period to _after_ when you can use your credit card company against them (which is how most people try to get their money back when they get fed up with things). At that point, the only things you can really do is to either harass them with phone calls, or file a complaint with the BBB, or threaten legal action. And they count on not that many people willing to do that. Or simply forgetting about it, since it's like 3 months or more away.

For budget monitors, I'd recommend the Polyview V293 (19") or the V17D (17"), but as always, I'd give my disclaimer that I used to work for the company that sells them in the United States (Amptron) so I'm biased on it. No messy rebates to worry about. In fact that's where I got my distaste for mail-in rebates; we never did them, and quite often our competition turns to mail-in rebates to try to underbid us. Polyview monitors are made and branded by Chi-Mei, which is the 4th largest LCD manufacturer in the world, so there shouldn't be much problems with quality (Amptron is just the U.S. distributor). I wonder if they have any misgivings about their U.S. distributor being Amptron, which has no marketing department at all (hence prices are low) so it means Chi Mei's brand names aren't being made known out here. Heh. Oh well. But there's also plenty of other budget companies that are quality too, just that I can't vouch for them personally; in this case, you'd be good to do your research on whatever company you'll be buying your monitor from. Don't just compare prices, since like response time it'll mean different things to different companies. In that sense, sometimes paying for brand name does make good sense, if you're not willing to do all that research; they rely on popular opinion to make sales, and they know that it means they have to have good customer service. Budget companies have no such constraints.

For an example of a mail-in rebate for LCD monitors, read here:

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2083.html

Note the lag period between the order dates and the review dates. That's about how long it takes for people to get upset enough to tell others about the company. In November, the market price for a 17" was about $240 or so.
 

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
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Thanks, Chuck. I too am concerned about the MIR. Personally, I don't factor rebates into the price because I can't associate getting a $50 check with the monitor I purchased for $300 3 months ago.

Do you have a link to the Fuji company site? (Google fails me) It doesn't look like a very good company to me. The Polyview you recommended looks nice but is 21ms which is probably too high for games. And Newegg has the V17E, which looks pretty good. Still, that Dell is looking better and better.
 

ChuckHsiao

Member
Apr 22, 2005
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Well note that it really should be "Fujiplus" not "Fuji Plus" (yeah yeah yeah I was copying from Newegg too, but Newegg's listing is somewhat incorrect...and in this case, it becomes really misleading). As one reviewer noted, the name might make it sound like it's from Fuji Film or Fujitsu but it's actually from a Taiwan company, Min Maw International (MMITEK). The site is simply:

http://fujiplus.com

Actually it used to be mmitek.com, so that may be why you were unable to find it -- the fujiplus.com thing is simply a redirect or whatever you call it for URLs. The monitor's specs are found at:

http://fujiplus.com/detail.asp?sku=FP-988D

The company history says it's been around for a while, so it seems like it's similar to Amptron -- one of those companies that's been around for a long time that no one really knows about. Obviously, they have to be doing something right to be in business for so long.

The 21 ms is because Chi Mei uses the older format (time to rise plus time to fall) to report response times. Manufacturers these days use gra to gray because it's one direction only and thus cuts the time in half. I got no idea where Fujiplus gets the 12 ms figure from, but "Tr / Tf" does not make any sense (is that saying "Tr or Tf" or "Tr plus Tf" or something else entirely? Certainly it can't be saying what that means, i.e. "time to rise divided by time to fall" which is always an absurdly low number). Having said that, if response time for gaming is a concern, it's probably better to stick with an 8 ms monitor, which is usually not budget (heh). The reason why I liked the V17D was that it's 10 ms, which means that it probably comes with overdrive and thus has less ghosting. Or hopefully anyway. The V17E is the same thing but without that response time*. Otherwise, Dells are generally safe bets. And there's plenty of other 17" out there as well. Right now, 17" are a lot cheaper than 19" and they're the same resolution, so if size doesn't matter, they're probably a better bang for the buck than 19".

*So I just noticed, the V17D is already off Newegg's site again, even though it was up for a few days. Oh well.
 

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
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Well, i think I'll skip on that Fujiplus one simply because I would be paying $300 for it, and also because it's a no-name brand. I'm convinced that a 17" will be the best option for me since they both run at the same resolutions. So if the price of the Dell comes back down to around $200 again, I'll grab it.

BTW, the PolyView 17" doesnt look so bad either. It says 16.7 million colors but I don't believe it. Do you know if it's a real 8-bit?
 

ChuckHsiao

Member
Apr 22, 2005
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To be honest, I don't know. That question simply never came up while I worked there, so I never thought to test it. Kind of annoying now, because it's a big issue now, and there's no way for me to go over there and test, and I like to test things out personally -- some of the measurements you see on the Amptron website that's not on the Chi Mei website were measurements I made personally, because a customer asked about them one day. The website does say it's 16.7M colors and Chi Mei doesn't hesitate to say when their monitors are 16.2M colors (you can find some 16.2M monitors on the website), which tends to be more convincing than a website where all the monitors are 16.7M, or even worse, one where they're all "over 16 million colors". But that's not a substitute for testing it out.

When the issue came up a while ago, I emailed one of my former coworkers at Amptron, and asked if she could help me test it out (I gave her some tests too). She replied that they had just recently hired a new tech support guy so he'll be handling it (she forwarded my email to him) since she's now transferred to other stuff, but that because he's new, it might take him a while to get up to speed on these things. He hasn't replied back yet though, since customer emails comes first and I don't count (since it's not as pressing of an issue), so I guess I'll go harass him to get the test done. It'll be fun. Just like getting a rebate. Sorry, couldn't resist.
 

HDTVMan

Banned
Apr 28, 2005
1,534
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Best bang that would be the wife and reason I married her.

Oh not the subject. Um. Its good to remember that LCD panels are real measurements unlike their monitor measurements.

Example.
17" LCD = 17" Viewable.
19" CRT = 17.8" Viewable or something like that.

For some reason CRT's are not actual inches and should be based upon viewing area.

Go Figure.
 

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
751
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dang, newegg has a refurbished v17d for $160. Just might get it.... Arghh! the choices! Anyone have refurbed experience with newegg?
 

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
751
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Just wondering, do you guys think someone returned the v17d to newegg because they just didnt like it, or is it more likely that there is something wrong with it? Either way, I get 2 weeks to use it to see. Should I try it out?

Chuck, I missed your post. I would grwatly appreciate finding out if it's an 8-bit. Thanks for your help.
 

cbehnken

Golden Member
Aug 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: dornick
Just wondering, do you guys think someone returned the v17d to newegg because they just didnt like it, or is it more likely that there is something wrong with it? Either way, I get 2 weeks to use it to see. Should I try it out?

Chuck, I missed your post. I would grwatly appreciate finding out if it's an 8-bit. Thanks for your help.


It almost definently will have bad pixels if it's refurb.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
Originally posted by: cbehnken
Originally posted by: dornick
Just wondering, do you guys think someone returned the v17d to newegg because they just didnt like it, or is it more likely that there is something wrong with it? Either way, I get 2 weeks to use it to see. Should I try it out?

Chuck, I missed your post. I would grwatly appreciate finding out if it's an 8-bit. Thanks for your help.


It almost definently will have bad pixels if it's refurb.

yeah most likely. ip ersonally think 1 dead pixel maybe 2 is not that bad.

but newegg's refurb prices have tended to be not that great as of late anyway, its probably not worth it.