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Soccer55

Golden Member
Jul 9, 2000
1,660
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Well, it's been a while since I upgraded my rig, so I am planning on building a new system within the next month or two. The big dilemma that I have right now is to choose between a Core i7 and a Core 2 Quad CPU. For some background, here are the main components of my current system:

AMD Athlon XP 2600+ (Thoroughbred)
1 GB DDR RAM
LeadTek A280 GeForce4 Ti4200 AGP 8X
Seagate ATA100 60 GB (7200 RPM)

So as you can see, I have had this system for quite a while. I haven't really needed more performance as I hadn't had much time for gaming. The games that I did manage to find a few hours here and there to play (TES: Morrowind and Guild Wars) ran fairly well on my system. Now that I have a little more time and want to get into some newer games (e.g. Fallout 3), my system obviously isn't going to cut it. Regardless of what I choose, I will see a very significant increase in performance across the board.

I'm leaning towards an i7 920 because from what I've read, it's very OCable and the performance is at worst on par with C2Q. However, the reservations that I have about i7 are:

At this time, it is not significantly better (performance-wise) for gaming/general purpose than a C2Q.
Consequently, I could get a C2Q system for a lot less than I could get an i7 system at this point in time.
AFAIK, if I were to get an i7 now, there is no guarantee that the motherboard will be compatible with the Westmere i7s that are due to come out a year from now.

If that upgrade path to Westmere could be guaranteed, I'd definitely go with an i7 920 and upgrade to Westmere later. Aside from gaming, it will probably be used for internet and some media encoding. I don't really plan on upgrading for another few years (save maybe to Westmere if possible with a current X58 mobo) which is why I chose to go with a quad-core over a dual-core.

Given my usage, is there any compelling reason that I'm not seeing to go with one platform over another? Do I have some of my facts or assumptions about i7/C2 incorrect? Any help/opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

-Tom
 
WaitingForNehalem

WaitingForNehalem

Platinum Member
Aug 24, 2008
2,497
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71
At this time, it is not significantly better (performance-wise) for gaming/general purpose than a C2Q.
Consequently, I could get a C2Q system for a lot less than I could get an i7 system at this point in time.
AFAIK, if I were to get an i7 now, there is no guarantee that the motherboard will be compatible with the Westmere i7s that are due to come out a year from now.
Click to expand...

Forget what people are telling you, it isn't true. I had a Pentium 4 before this system and i've been waiting since late July. Everyone was telling me not wait and get C2Q. I ignored them and waited. I haven't regretted it at all. It is simply amazing. Trust me there is no point in investing in a dead socket. It is much better in gaming, what holds it back in some games is the GPU and software. Take a look at the SLI/CrossfireX benchmarks. Core i7 dominates. do you think Intel would invest tons of money into a socket and CPU just to get a slight increase? A Core i7 system doesn't much more than a C2Q. Yes, you will be able to upgrade to westmere as socket 1366 is the high-end socket.
 
DSF

DSF

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2007
4,902
0
71
Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem
At this time, it is not significantly better (performance-wise) for gaming/general purpose than a C2Q.
Consequently, I could get a C2Q system for a lot less than I could get an i7 system at this point in time.
AFAIK, if I were to get an i7 now, there is no guarantee that the motherboard will be compatible with the Westmere i7s that are due to come out a year from now.
Click to expand...

Forget what people are telling you, it isn't true. I had a Pentium 4 before this system and i've been waiting since late July. Everyone was telling me not wait and get C2Q. I ignored them and waited. I haven't regretted it at all. It is simply amazing. Trust me there is no point in investing in a dead socket. It is much better in gaming, what holds it back in some games is the GPU and software. Take a look at the SLI/CrossfireX benchmarks. Core i7 dominates. do you think Intel would invest tons of money into a socket and CPU just to get a slight increase? A Core i7 system doesn't much more than a C2Q. Yes, you will be able to upgrade to westmere as socket 1366 is the high-end socket.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to see what benchmarks you looked at that showed i7 dominating over Core2Duo. I just haven't seen tests showing much of a difference in gaming.

As far as seeing an amazing difference between i7 and your P4, of course you did. That would have been true with a Core2Duo, but it doesn't give you any basis for comparing i and Core2.
 
DSF

DSF

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2007
4,902
0
71
Interesting read, but I don't recall seeing such a gap in performance with a single-card setup.

Am I suggesting he invest in Core2Duo? Hardly, but by the same token I hope you're not implying he should invest in Core i7. Nobody with any sense invests in a piece of equipment whose value declines weekly. That's as true for Core i7 as it is for Core2Duo or any other computer technology. A PC is a tool, not an investment.

Am I suggesting that Core2 may provide better value, depending on the OP's specific needs? Yes. He didn't specify whether he intends to use a multi-GPU platform, nor did he give a definite budget.
 
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Soccer55

Golden Member
Jul 9, 2000
1,660
4
81
Thanks for the responses thus far.

Originally posted by: DSF
Am I suggesting that Core2 may provide better value, depending on the OP's specific needs? Yes. He didn't specify whether he intends to use a multi-GPU platform, nor did he give a definite budget.
Click to expand...

As far as a budget, I plan to re-use my case (Antec SX1000II) and speakers (Promedia 2.1) and I'm looking at ~$300 for a LCD. So I can probably spend around $1500 on the rest. If I went with an i7, I'd probably go with a 920 as the 940 and 965 would not fit in the budget. This is why I'm interested in whether or not the current X58 mobos could support Westmere as in 2 years, I could get a better, lower power, and likely faster processor without a huge investment.

Is it really worth it to go with something like 4850 CF/GTX260 (216) SLI over a 1 GB 4870? Especially in terms of power consumption? From what little information I've looked at, a multi-GPU setup would only be worthwhile if I was playing games at 19x12 or higher. I'm looking at a 22"/24" monitor, so I'd probably be playing around 16x10.

-Tom
 
zerocool84

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Soccer55
Thanks for the responses thus far.

Originally posted by: DSF
Am I suggesting that Core2 may provide better value, depending on the OP's specific needs? Yes. He didn't specify whether he intends to use a multi-GPU platform, nor did he give a definite budget.
Click to expand...

As far as a budget, I plan to re-use my case (Antec SX1000II) and speakers (Promedia 2.1) and I'm looking at ~$300 for a LCD. So I can probably spend around $1500 on the rest. If I went with an i7, I'd probably go with a 920 as the 940 and 965 would not fit in the budget. This is why I'm interested in whether or not the current X58 mobos could support Westmere as in 2 years, I could get a better, lower power, and likely faster processor without a huge investment.

Is it really worth it to go with something like 4850 CF/GTX260 (216) SLI over a 1 GB 4870? Especially in terms of power consumption? From what little information I've looked at, a multi-GPU setup would only be worthwhile if I was playing games at 19x12 or higher. I'm looking at a 22"/24" monitor, so I'd probably be playing around 16x10.

-Tom
Click to expand...

A single 260 would kick butt @ 16x10 so no real need for SLI/XFire at that rez unless you want bragging rights.
 
D

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
P43 or P45 motherboard + E8400 + 4GB RAM = $350 or less.

WaitingForNehalem's motherboard, no CPU, no RAM = $330.

You could spend $700 or so now on a reliable, cheap 775 setup with a fast graphics card, then buy into i7 in another year or two.

I upgraded in July and went with a Gigabyte P43, intel E8400 with stock HSF, single Radeon 4870 512MB, 4 GB Crucial DDR2. It's been problem-free and runs Mass Effect and Fallout 3 quite well at 16x12.
 
W

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,695
1
0
Core2Duo or Quad for 11 more months. something about giving the manufacturers a year to
perform their "extended in-field beta testing" to tweak their BIOS', etc.

as documented in Anand's comments in Gary Key's Dec. 6 i7 MB round-up. looks like the
MB manufacturers are in a big hurry to get their products in the field (the only way to maintain
some revenues in this economy, perhaps) + a beautiful enormous complex CPU = glitches.
 
S

Soccer55

Golden Member
Jul 9, 2000
1,660
4
81
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
P43 or P45 motherboard + E8400 + 4GB RAM = $350 or less
WaitingForNehalem's motherboard, no CPU, no RAM = $330
Click to expand...

The price of entry into i7 is one reason why I'm undecided on which platform to choose. On one hand, I could spend less now on a C2D/Q and in a couple of years upgrade the CPU/RAM/mobo to i7 (when i7 boards & DDR3 are likely cheaper).

Or I could spend a little more now on an i7 platform and in ~2 years, possibly be able to drop a Westmere into the system that I already would have to get a quick, hopefully low cost performance boost. I don't know how CPU support works on mobos as I've always had to get a new one with any new CPU I've bought due to a new slot/socket.

I guess I'm just not sure if there's a compelling reason for me to go with either one over the other.

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
What about Deneb. Are you decided on i7/Intel?
Click to expand...

No, I'm not locked into Intel, and in fact, I forgot about Deneb (launching in January?) If the launch is in fact in January, I could certainly wait until then to see how Deneb performs before deciding.

Originally posted by: wwswimming
as documented in Anand's comments in Gary Key's Dec. 6 i7 MB round-up. looks like the
MB manufacturers are in a big hurry to get their products in the field (the only way to maintain
some revenues in this economy, perhaps) + a beautiful enormous complex CPU = glitches.
Click to expand...

I read the article last night and was rather surprised by that.....you would think that manufacturers would want their products to be as polished as possible when going to a reviewer. If I did go with i7, I would probably go with the P6T as I thought it looked like a rather solid mobo even before I read the AT round-up. Also, I've had very good experiences with ASUS boards in the past.

-Tom
 
DSF

DSF

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2007
4,902
0
71
You said you're deciding between 22 and 24". Be aware that a 24" monitor is 19x12, not 16x10.

Either way, I'm still rocking an OC'ed Allendale and 8800GT from a year ago, and have not had problems playing anything. If I were in your position I'd go with a Core2 setup, a 22" monitor, and a single spiffy graphics card. Considering that you're reusing a case you like, the whole package should probably come in under $1000, including monitor. (But not including an OS.)

This would likely be my setup:
CPU: Intel E8500 - $188
Nice, fast dual core. The gains from quad core are small at this point, although they are growing slowly. If you're planning on upgrading the platform in two years I don't know if there's a point in spending much extra for quad right away.

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R - $105
Nicely featured motherboard for the price. Will overclock fine if you decide to down the road.

CPU Cooler: ZeroTherm ZEN - $14 AR
If you're not overclocking you don't really need an aftermarket heatsink, but this is a crazy price on a pretty good unit.

RAM: 2x2 GB Corsair DDR2-800 - $25 AR.
DDR2-800 is all you need. If you intend to overclock the chip past 3.8GHz you might step up slightly here.

Video: ASUS 4870 1GB - $245 AR
OR
EVGA GTX 260 Core 216 - $248

Both cards are strong peformers. It comes down to looking up benchmarks in the games you expect to play at the resolution you'll use. The EVGA card has a lifetime warranty and a free game copy of Far Cry 2 if you need a tiebreaker.

Hard Drive: WD Caviar 640GB - $75
The sweet spot in terms of price/performance.

Optical Drive: Samsung SH-S223F DVD Burner - $25
Not a ton of difference between optical drives.

Power Supply: Corsair 650TX
Great PSU for $65 with free shipping from buy.com. Plenty of power for this computer and whatever you decide to do in two years.

All told, that's just under $750 before shipping. Leaves you room in the budget for a good 22" monitor.
 
D

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
^ nice set of parts, one comment: it looks like that Samsung DVD does not come with a Nero software CD, I'd spend the extra $5-10 for a "retail" package or a different burner with software.
 
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