XTASY RADEON 9600XT 256MB vs ATI RADEON 9800 PRO

[Mr Bob]

I am trying to compare the 9600 XT http://www.computers4sure.com/....asp?ProductID=2015943 vs the 9800 PRO http://www.computers4sure.com/....asp?ProductID=1630334


It seems like the 9600 XT has a lot better features than the 9800 PRO.

I noticed a difference in the memory (the 9600 has double the memory), memory clock speed of 600 Mhz vs the 9800's 400 Mhz.

What am I missing? Is the 9600 XT a better deal?

 

[Sonic587]

The 9600 series is a far cry from a 9800 anything. This is due to fewer pipelines and 128-bit memory bus width (compared to the 9800 series 256-bit bus).

Also:

Faster clockspeed != Faster videocard
More RAM != Faster/better videocard

That place is kinda expensive. You can get a 256-bit 9800 PRO for under $200 at newegg. Avoid the 128-bit models, however.

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=14-102-268&depa=0

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Agreed. The 9600 is limited by its 128 bit memory bus. This means that it would need 2X the frequency to match the overall bandwidth of the 9800.

Overall, the 9800pro is by far the faster card.

If I were buying a 9600, I'd probably get the 9600pro, which is only slightly slower than the 9600XT and is available for a much lower price (edit, I guess the price difference isn't that significant anymore).

Overall though, I'd try and scrounge the extra cash for the 9800pro.

-D'oh!

 

[Mr Bob]

Not quite sure I understand. Is the 9600 XT better than the 9800 PRO?

The specs show the 9600 XT has faster clock speed, and more memory.

Care to explain a bit about the pipelines and the 128-bit memory bus?

 

[Mr Bob]

I was planning to spend around $80-$100 for a video card, but it seems that to get something decent I would need a 9600 PRO/XT or the 9800 series.

Thinking that I can get the http://www.buy.com/retail/prod...0378005&dcaid=1688 9600 XT Retail w/
Product Description - VisionTek Xtasy 9600XT - graphics adapter - RADEON 9600 XT - 256 MB
Device Type - Graphics adapter
Enclosure Type - Plug-in card
Interface Type - AGP 8x
Graphics Processor / Vendor - ATI RADEON 9600 XT
RAMDAC Clock Speed - 400 MHz
API Supported - OpenGL, DirectX 9.0
Video Memory Installed ( Max ) - 256 MB
Video Output - 2048 x 1536
Max Monitors Supported - 2
TV Interface - TV out
System Requirements - Microsoft Windows 98/ME/2000/XP
Manufacturer Warranty - Lifetime warranty

all for $122

It looks like a better deal for a decent card. What will I gain by paying more than $122 to get the 9800 series? I don't need a super card, I just need something that will allow me to play a few of the recent games, and run graphical programs such as PhotoShop.

 

[LeoMael]

Get the 9800pro. Avoid the 9600(insert suffix here)

 

[Sonic587]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
I was planning to spend around $80-$100 for a video card, but it seems that to get something decent I would need a 9600 PRO/XT or the 9800 series.

Thinking that I can get the http://www.buy.com/retail/prod...0378005&dcaid=1688 9600 XT Retail w/
Product Description - VisionTek Xtasy 9600XT - graphics adapter - RADEON 9600 XT - 256 MB
Device Type - Graphics adapter
Enclosure Type - Plug-in card
Interface Type - AGP 8x
Graphics Processor / Vendor - ATI RADEON 9600 XT
RAMDAC Clock Speed - 400 MHz
API Supported - OpenGL, DirectX 9.0
Video Memory Installed ( Max ) - 256 MB
Video Output - 2048 x 1536
Max Monitors Supported - 2
TV Interface - TV out
System Requirements - Microsoft Windows 98/ME/2000/XP
Manufacturer Warranty - Lifetime warranty

all for $122

It looks like a better deal for a decent card. What will I gain by paying more than $122 to get the 9800 series? I don't need a super card, I just need something that will allow me to play a few of the recent games, and run graphical programs such as PhotoShop.

If that's what you're going to use it for, then it's ok to go for the 9600XT. It's plenty for almost all recent games.

 

[Mr Bob]

Get the 9800pro. Avoid the 9600(insert suffix here)
- That doesn't help me figure out which one to get...

I don't want to pay $200 for a video card. I don't plan to test it to its max, nor compare it to other cards.

If that's what you're going to use it for, then it's ok to go for the 9600XT. It's plenty for almost all recent games.
- I hope so, at a price of $122 it sounds like a good deal. It would be nice to get a few more people state their opinions on it. At first I was going to get the 9600SE for only $68 w/ shipping, but the reviews on it is TERRIBLE!

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

The overall memory performance is governed by the bandwidth, which is the product of the bus width and the speed (frequency). Simple analogy is a highway where the bus = # of lanes and the frequency = speed limit. The number of cars you can get through will depend on both factors, and if one highway has 2X the lanes (bus width) the other will need 2X the speed to maintain similar overall traffic.

Definitions:
b = bit
B = Byte (yeah, very intuitive)


So, if you have 600 MHz memory on a 128 bit bus, then you can move 128 bits 600,000,000 times per second which is 76,800,000,000 bit/sec. Since 1 Byte = 8 bits, you end up with a bandwith of 9,600,000,000 Byte/sec, and since (in binary computer language) one kB = 1024 B, 1MB = 1024 kB, etc you have:
8.9 GB/sec memory bandwith.

Now, if you have 400 MHz and a 256 bit bus, you will find that you end up with:
11.9 GB/sec momory bandwith.

So, even though the 9800pro has a slower memory frequency, the wider bus allows more data to be transferred overall.

It's a similar phenomenon on the cores:
9600 has can operate on 4 pixels per clock cycle, while the 9800 can operate on 8.

So, for the 9600 to match the 9800, it would need double the core frequency. Since that is not the case, it will have lower performance in that area as well.

Really, the only thing the 9600 has going for it is a lower price and larger amount of memory. The thing to note is that on the 9600, the larger amount of memory will not increase performance very much if at all, and certainly not to the point of even 128 MB 9800pro.

-D'oh!

 

[Mr Bob]

So the major difference between the two cards is that the 9800 PRO has 2GB/sec more memory bw. Doesn't seem like enough value to charge around $80 more for the 2GB bw....

Am I missing anything else?

---
I am heading off to bed, hopefully I can get a little more feedback tomorrow morning. Thanks for the help dealing with a video card newb.

 

[LeoMael]

It seems that no matter how many times we tell you that the 9800pro is the better buy, it's still not enough to convince you. It seems you've made up your mind that the 9600XT is the right card for you. So that's the card to buy.

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Dang you guys are fast.

As far as performance goes, you pretty much have to pay top dollar for top level performance.

With that said, most people certainly don't need top level performance, and if you are willing to sacrifice some speed, then a 9600pro or 9600XT is a pretty good card. I still think the 9600pro is a better deal.

The 9600SE definitely should be avoided, since it has a 64 bit bus, and by now we all know that means the memory performance will be very bad.

I'm a gamer and still say that you should go for a 9600pro rather than something less expensive, but that's just me.

Here is a good site to check out the performance of various cards.
http://graphics.tomshardware.c...ic/20031229/index.html

Good luck!

-D'oh!

 

[Mr Bob]

LeoMael

Just finishing up a little bit of homework still.

I haven't made up my mind yet, I don't plan to buy the card for around another month or so. The card might be better, but then again if I just want a better card, I could always spend $400 and get one of the best.

Like I previously asked, "So the major difference between the two cards is that the 9800 PRO has 2GB/sec more memory bw. " If this is correct, it seems only logical that the 9800 PRO is better but only better by around 2GB bw.

AnnoyedGrunt

Do you see any prices for the 9600 PRO that is less than around $120 or so? I found the 9600 XT at $122 shipped (which I believe is rated better than the PRO).

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Well, I wasn't using actual numbers, so the diffference may be more or less than what I used as an illustration.

Check out that article I posted above which is a pretty good roundup of a large number of different cards.

From what I see, the 9800pro has 680MHz memory, which will provide over 2.26X the bandwith of the 9600XT.

The normal 9800 isn't really available any more in it's original form (580 MHz, 256 bit) and is now called the same thing but looks to have 128 bit memory bus (more like the 9800SE, but with a VERY misleading name). If the 9800 was still available, it would have 1.93X the memory bandwith of the 9600XT.

And don't forget that the core can process more pixels as well, so the advantage is more than just the memory.

Anyhow, have fun researching, and I'm sure you'll get 1 million more opinions if you post your next "final" choice.

(Once again I think the 9600pro would be a good match for your performance and price point)

Good luck!

-D'oh!

 

[Mr Bob]

Lots of information there. I will check that out tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the help. Now I am really off to bed...

 

[bunnyfubbles]

The 9800 has twice the pipelines as the 9600 which means that the 9600's GPU needs to be clocked twice as high in order to match (in theory) the speed of the 9800. I say "in theory" because the chips are not 100% efficient, this also brings us to another point where the 9800's GPU is more efficient than the 9600 which also gives it an edge. Then we have memory bandwidth, with a 256bit architecture the 9800's sheer clock of the memory doesn't matter as much as with the 128bit 9600, again the 9600's memory would need to be twice as fast in order to match the same memory bandwidth of a 9800 Pro.

With newer games the 9800 Pro will be substantially faster than the 9600XT. But depending upon what resolution and extra eye candy you intend to use for games the 9600XT would do very well, heck the 9800 Pro might not offer much advantage for you depending upon how you use it.

OH yeah, concerning the ammount of memory each card has, 256MB on a 9600 is more gimmick that anything (I think, someone please prove me wrong if I am). The thing is, is that the only games that will actually need that extra video memory will already be a little too demanding for the 9600.

 

[Bateluer]

Shoot, I'd wait a few months and pick up a 6600 GT for the same price as 9800 Pros are right now.

 

[ed21x]

basically, you need to understand that doubling the bandwidth is usually the difference in whether a game is playable or not (ie 20 fps to 40)... not ram, not clockspeed, etc... In addition, if you overclock the 9800 pro, you have that 2 fold increase, clock for clock on the 9800 pro. But seeing as how you won't accept our advice that the 9800 is better for your money, and you're pretty set on the 9600 XT , our reasoning seems to be falling on deaf ears =\

 

[Schadenfroh]

here smoe benchmarks for yas
toms
digitlife

 

[CKTurbo128]

Don't just look at specifications only. You need to check actual real-world performance reviews of the card and see how they really perform against other cards at review sites, such as the places Schadenfroh linked. Just because a card looks great on paper does not mean it will actually perform great : cough :: :: cough :: XGI Volari V8 Duo :: cough :: ::cough:. Even the upcoming 6600 GT utilizes only a 128-bit memory bus (most high-end cards of last & this generation used 256-bit memory bus), but is able to beat out the 9700/9800 & FX 5900/5950 series in real-world benchmarking with ease in the latest reviews, which seems incredible.

 

[selfbuilt]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
here smoe benchmarks for yas
toms
digitlife

The advice here on how graphics card really work is quite correct - but the benchmarks are the best illustration. Just look at the game settings you are likely to run at, and make your decision based on that. The 9600 series may be acceptable for you ... but the 9800 pro is typically 35-65% faster than a 9600xt, as would be expected.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
So the major difference between the two cards is that the 9800 PRO has 2GB/sec more memory bw. Doesn't seem like enough value to charge around $80 more for the 2GB bw....

Am I missing anything else?

---
I am heading off to bed, hopefully I can get a little more feedback tomorrow morning. Thanks for the help dealing with a video card newb.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Mr Bob
So the major difference between the two cards is that the 9800 PRO has 2GB/sec more memory bw. Doesn't seem like enough value to charge around $80 more for the 2GB bw....

Am I missing anything else?

---
I am heading off to bed, hopefully I can get a little more feedback tomorrow morning. Thanks for the help dealing with a video card newb.

Yes . . .
clearly, you want the 9600 . . . buy it . . it is a very nice card . . .

however, it is not in the same class as the 9800 series for a few bucks more . . .
(don't say we didn't warn you . .. the 9800p is ~50% faster than the 9600x)

:roll:

over-and-over

 

[LTC8K6]

The 9800pro is better by a country mile than a 9600xt. Two country miles, in fact.

256mb of ram is nothing but a waste on a card based on the 9600 core. It's a waste on any card other than the top end cards.

As everyone else already said....

 

[Feep]

9800 pro is definaltley the better card. Look at any benchmark.