XP Swap file on 2GB USB2 memory stick?

[tommo123]

will XP allow you to set a usb2 flash drive with your swap file? afaik, the transfer rates arent bad and the seek time is much better than a hard drive.

read that vista will have a prefetch feature, but cant really see a reason why XP cant get some of the benefits with a swap file on the drive instead?

 

[ProviaFan]

I don't think that XP will let you have the swap file on anything removable, but I suppose you could try... 🙂

 

[nweaver]

it's still not going to speed you up much. You would be better off spending money on more memory then the USB drive, so the speed of swap isn't needed as much.

 

[bazcor100]

Also memory sticks have a rewrite limit, not sure what it is but it would be reached fairly quickly in a swap file system.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: bazcor100
Also memory sticks have a rewrite limit, not sure what it is but it would be reached fairly quickly in a swap file system.

Good point. I wonder, then, about the technology to use memory sticks for caching in Vista... that would encounter the very same problem; I would hope that Microsoft has taken that into consideration and done something to conserve and distribute writes where possible.

 

[tommo123]

from what i read, it was a certain type of flash card that was limited by that.

prob with adding more RAM, is that no matter if i have 4 GB, windows will still cache to the hard drive so will have to load off that again.

something like that ram drive of gigabytes but done properly* would be great

*as in not limited by the SATA limit. one that uses the bandwidth available in PCI-E via a type of controller would be better and wouldnt take up a SATA port. would make more use of the RAMs speed -

 

[HPTech]

Your best bet if you have speare IDE/SATA connectors and the cash, is to invest in a seperate HD entirely for swap. I ahvea friend here at work that uses a system with 3xraptors in [2 in RAID] with the 3rd running entirely for swap. This gives brillaint performance, but in my eyes your better off with more RAM anyway to prevent disk-swapping in the 1st place, and with memory so cheap it's proberbly the best option.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: ProviaFan

Originally posted by: bazcor100
Also memory sticks have a rewrite limit, not sure what it is but it would be reached fairly quickly in a swap file system.

Good point. I wonder, then, about the technology to use memory sticks for caching in Vista... that would encounter the very same problem; I would hope that Microsoft has taken that into consideration and done something to conserve and distribute writes where possible.

It's probably something to be concerned about, but I don't think it'll be all that bad. A lot of people like to run openbsd on little machines that use compact flash instead of hard drives. They usually take pains to make sure frequently written areas are on memory filesystems, but some people have also done torture tests to see just how long they can hammer the thing for and, of the results that I've read, people generally haven't been able to kill them (in recent years anyway).

Apparently the cards have a significant number of unused backup cells which they are able to swap in transparently when current cells fail. I don't know if that's a cf-only thing, but it sounds like the technology would be applicable across the board.

At any rate, I'm not saying I know you'll be safe, just that it might not be that bad.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: tommo123
from what i read, it was a certain type of flash card that was limited by that.

prob with adding more RAM, is that no matter if i have 4 GB, windows will still cache to the hard drive so will have to load off that again.

something like that ram drive of gigabytes but done properly* would be great

*as in not limited by the SATA limit. one that uses the bandwidth available in PCI-E via a type of controller would be better and wouldnt take up a SATA port. would make more use of the RAMs speed -

easy solution, use an OS that manages memory/swap better


/flamesuit on

 

[tommo123]

another OS that i can use all the software i'm familiar with, that's as easy to use and setup as you like and that can play new games without having to worry about driver support from nvidia/ati?

would that be a linux variant or a mac? 😛

tried linux ages back and just didnt get on with it. it works but is too 'geeky' for lack of a better term. i do not want to have to spend ages looking for software to make use of the tv card i had then, find that the aspect ratio options that are set in the program are plain wrong, have to get the source, edit (bloodyhard when you've only dabbled in it before) the code, and recompile the damn thing!

and as for a mac, no chance. they're just evil those things should have the crazy frog as their logo - that's how bad macs are (IMO) 🙂

anyway, as HPtech said, i already run the swap file on a different drive. i have 4 raptors i am planning to mess around with. thing is, no matter what that gives me i am either limited by the PCI bus speed, or if using ports that are connected to PCI-E, can still only get around 300MB/sec transfer rate from them, and the seek times are a little higher than they should be due to the raid.

couldnt i just add another 2x1GB ram, but use the other 2 just for the swap file as a virtual drive? proper RAM speed then, unlike the ram drive.

 

[Nothinman]

Good point. I wonder, then, about the technology to use memory sticks for caching in Vista... that would encounter the very same problem; I would hope that Microsoft has taken that into consideration and done something to conserve and distribute writes where possible.

I might be dense, but I think the caching is Vista is the opposite of what you're thinking. It caches the entire memory stick into memory (or as much as it can) so that there is less access required to the device.

prob with adding more RAM, is that no matter if i have 4 GB, windows will still cache to the hard drive so will have to load off that again.

Please explain what you mean by 'cache to the hard drive'.

tried linux ages back and just didnt get on with it. it works but is too 'geeky' for lack of a better term. i do not want to have to spend ages looking for software to make use of the tv card i had then, find that the aspect ratio options that are set in the program are plain wrong, have to get the source, edit (bloodyhard when you've only dabbled in it before) the code, and recompile the damn thing!

That's like complaining that Windows sucks because you tried Win95 once 'ages back'. I haven't done anything with a TV card, but I'd still bet that you're blowing things way out of proportion.

and as for a mac, no chance. they're just evil those things should have the crazy frog as their logo - that's how bad macs are (IMO)

And you've used one of them, when? I'm not a Mac fan, infact I hate the Aqua UI, but they're far from evil and a great option if you don't need Windows' gaming support.

 

[tommo123]

Please explain what you mean by 'cache to the hard drive'.

as in windows seems to analyse what your use of open programs is, so if something minimized and you only go back in every 30 mins or longer, it takes longer to get back to the program than usual. plus the fact that i can simply hear my drive going as i do this (every single time - seriously). programs you access a lot seem to stay in RAM. makes sense to me i suppose if there's limited memory available, but in my case there's just over a gig used out of 2 so nothing needs to go to the swap file 🙁

That's like complaining that Windows sucks because you tried Win95 once 'ages back'. I haven't done anything with a TV card, but I'd still bet that you're blowing things way out of proportion.

nope. i'm very picky about video and a 4:3 image showing roughly square is just wrong! maybe it was a badly written prog or the writer got some details wrong. since then anyway, i've dabbled in linux but very little and no more than necessary (mostly just using an old old pc as a firewall). i hope it does become more user friendly but right now (as a personal choice) there is no contest which will be on my PC. that's windows.

And you've used one of them, when? I'm not a Mac fan, infact I hate the Aqua UI, but they're far from evil and a great option if you don't need Windows' gaming support.

i've used macs in work previously (XP only now thankfully). macs seem to be sold as tools and not something to 'mould' like a PC into what you want. PC's just seem more customizable tbh.

basically, it's personal preference. i hope that this whole deally with trying to lock down the OS to specific hardware compleltely falls apart and apple give up and make it available for all users. Maybe then there will be something to compete with windows (and the OS may evolve into something i dont cringe to look at 😛 )

p.s. i need gaming support so that kills everything apart from windows anyway 🙂

 

[Nothinman]

as in windows seems to analyse what your use of open programs is, so if something minimized and you only go back in every 30 mins or longer, it takes longer to get back to the program than usual.

When you minimize an process Windows shrinks it's working set, if you don't want that to happen don't minimize anything.

programs you access a lot seem to stay in RAM. makes sense to me i suppose if there's limited memory available, but in my case there's just over a gig used out of 2 so nothing needs to go to the swap file

I would bet that if you actually looked at perfmon there is virtually nothing in the pagefile anyway.

nope. i'm very picky about video and a 4:3 image showing roughly square is just wrong! maybe it was a badly written prog or the writer got some details wrong. since then anyway, i've dabbled in linux but very little and no more than necessary (mostly just using an old old pc as a firewall). i hope it does become more user friendly but right now (as a personal choice) there is no contest which will be on my PC. that's windows.

But you said 'ages ago' which to me means that you haven't even looked recently, so how can you claim that the problems you had still exist?

basically, it's personal preference. i hope that this whole deally with trying to lock down the OS to specific hardware compleltely falls apart and apple give up and make it available for all users. Maybe then there will be something to compete with windows (and the OS may evolve into something i dont cringe to look at )

If Apple did that they would be bankrupt in no time. Their ipod sales could never make up for the loss in revenue they would incur by losing their other hardware sales.

p.s. i need gaming support so that kills everything apart from windows anyway

So get an XBox.

 

[tommo123]

dont minimize? kinda difficult with loads of programs open.


But you said 'ages ago' which to me means that you haven't even looked recently, so how can you claim that the problems you had still exist?

still? i dont. it did then and there is nothing i have heard about linux that would make me want to install it on my pc.


and for the gaming part, you say - So get an XBox.
???

if i want to play an fps without those little controllers and use a mouse and keyboard to control things properly, would an x-box let me do that?

will the graphics be even remotely decent on a what, 5 year old console, running in a low res, on a tv with new games, compared to running on a PC with newer g.card, running at 1920x1200 on a 24" LCD monitor? which would be better for fear, BF2 etc etc etc.

can an xbox handle 1080i HD encoded in H.264 @ 8Mbit/sec? My PC can and with the recent update to their decoder, my g.card will take a load of that strain off my X2.

anyway, this is going way off topic now so i'm ending my part in the thread after the following. as i said above, its personal preference as to what you go for. i choose not to go for linux/macs and an xbox. i looked at an xbox ages back and decided it wasnt good enough.

i really dont get why people seem to react personally when you say something negative about another OS or whatever. i couldnt care less if someone says stuff about mircosoft / xp or gaming on a pc. i dont care. i use a pc, i like using it over anything else. the end.

 

[Nothinman]

dont minimize? kinda difficult with loads of programs open.

Not really, I rarely minimize anything. On Linux it's more natural because of multiple desktops, but I don't do it on Windows at work either.

if i want to play an fps without those little controllers and use a mouse and keyboard to control things properly, would an x-box let me do that?

No, but I haven't seen an FPS since Q3 that I actually wanted to play. They're all just rehashes of the same crap over and over.

will the graphics be even remotely decent on a what, 5 year old console, running in a low res, on a tv with new games, compared to running on a PC with newer g.card, running at 1920x1200 on a 24" LCD monitor? which would be better for fear, BF2 etc etc etc.

So get an Xbox360.

can an xbox handle 1080i HD encoded in H.264 @ 8Mbit/sec? My PC can and with the recent update to their decoder, my g.card will take a load of that strain off my X2.

I've watched some 1080i HD video and I wasn't terribly impressed, 720 was more than good enough and is playable on a lot more machines. And I know that a 360 with the MPC stuff installed will play a 720 HD xvid file just fine.

i really dont get why people seem to react personally when you say something negative about another OS or whatever. i couldnt care less if someone says stuff about mircosoft / xp or gaming on a pc. i dont care. i use a pc, i like using it over anything else. the end.

Because for the most part you're talking out of your ass, you even said yourself you haven't looked at them for ages and you're still complaining about things that were probably fixed years ago.

 

[tommo123]

i know i said i wouldnt post anymore but had to respond to that.

in my posts i've said why i do and do not use PCs/Macs etc, whether you like the reason or not, or dont think its valid is unimportant.

i state my reasons for gaming on a PC. your response is 'get an xbox', even though its obviously not going to do the job.
i state the limitations of the xbox for my needs and your response is simply 'So get an Xbox360'. hmmm, ..............why?

care to give your reasons as to why i would get an Xbox360? my post was

if i want to play an fps without those little controllers and use a mouse and keyboard to control things properly, would an x-box let me do that?

will the graphics be even remotely decent on a what, 5 year old console, running in a low res, on a tv with new games, compared to running on a PC with newer g.card, running at 1920x1200 on a 24" LCD monitor? which would be better for fear, BF2 etc etc etc.

can an xbox handle 1080i HD encoded in H.264 @ 8Mbit/sec? My PC can and with the recent update to their decoder, my g.card will take a load of that strain off my X2. [/Q}

can an xbox 360 do all that for me? you havent said that it can. you also just mentioned xvid and how 720p

more than good enough

. 720p is

more than good enough

, in your opinion. i disagree

after this, because you appear not to be able to get over the fact that i dont agree with you and format my PC, install some variant of linux, buy an xbox or as you later decided - an xbox360, throw my PC games away, buy them all again for the xbox360 and play them on a controller that i cant stand instead of a keyboard and mouse you get ever more stroppy and insulting

you're talking out of your ass

. Why? you dont like someone stating their opinion when it differs from yours? seems the best you can muster is to insult and get agressive.

ok, so to cut it down, you say use something - tell me why. what can it do better FOR ME than my PC can. not for you. for me. it doesnt matter that you feel that all FPS games now are

all just rehashes of the same crap over and over.

. i dont agree.

what will spending money on a console give ME short of less money in the bank?
what will using linux give ME over windows?

and this time, please try to do it with some reasons and not a simple short answer. if you can do that without getting personal i'll be utterly amazed!

 

[Nothinman]

in my posts i've said why i do and do not use PCs/Macs etc, whether you like the reason or not, or dont think its valid is unimportant.

The fact that you said you haven't tried them in ages is important and makes them invalid. A lot has changed in the few years, hell a lot has changed in the past year.

i state my reasons for gaming on a PC. your response is 'get an xbox', even though its obviously not going to do the job.
i state the limitations of the xbox for my needs and your response is simply 'So get an Xbox360'. hmmm, ..............why?

When I said xbox, I was including the 360, when someone says 'get Windows' you don't assume they mean 2000 do you?

care to give your reasons as to why i would get an Xbox360? my post was

Because 99% of PC games are crap these days anyway. Actually a large number of the console games suck too, but at least with a console you're guaranteed compatibility for a few years.

can an xbox 360 do all that for me? you havent said that it can. you also just mentioned xvid and how 720p

Who cares about H.264 support? I converted a 1080i H.264 video to xvid and it looked the same and was only like 20% larger. All the extra power the H.264 requires doesn't justify the small size difference.

after this, because you appear not to be able to get over the fact that i dont agree with you and format my PC, install some variant of linux, buy an xbox or as you later decided - an xbox360, throw my PC games away, buy them all again for the xbox360 and play them on a controller that i cant stand instead of a keyboard and mouse you get ever more stroppy and insulting

I don't really care what you do, but don't come in here complaining about software that you haven't used for 5 years. And WTF is stroppy?

. Why? you dont like someone stating their opinion when it differs from yours? seems the best you can muster is to insult and get agressive.

I don't like someone stating an opinion based on outdated misinformation.

what will spending money on a console give ME short of less money in the bank?

Unless you're pirating your games, you'll be spending the same amount on them no matter what. So you have to drop some cash up front for the console, big deal, you've probably already spent more on your current PC which will need upgraded a lot sooner than the console will need replaced. From a purely financial standpoint, the console is a much better deal.

what will using linux give ME over windows?

Control, power, freedom, knowledge. Whatever you want to get out of it. And if you really want, you can run a lot of Windows games in cedega with similar performance to Windows, I've even seen people say that games like HL and WoW run better in cedega than they did on Windows.

and this time, please try to do it with some reasons and not a simple short answer. if you can do that without getting personal i'll be utterly amazed!

You'll probably be amazed if you just take the time to try out a recent Linux distro, I'm not here to do your homework for you. VMWare Player is free and there are VMWare images of a number of Linux distributions that are free to download. It won't be 100% the same performance-wise and there will be no 3D support, but it's a good start with no risk to you or your machine.

 

[XBoxLPU]

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2480&p=6