XP MCE vs. Beyond TV

[Bodine]

Hi... Not sure if the Software forum would have been more appropriate, but since my "main" question revolves around MCE I guess I'll post here.

I'm currently evaluating Snaptream's Beyond TV (3.5.x) vs. Media Center Edition 2004 (If I go with MCE I'll get MCE 2005, but 2004 was the only edition I could get for eval purporses).

I'd love to hear opinions from those who have uesd both, but my main question thus far is:

--Can you copy/backup TV shows recorded in MCE? Where does MCE store them and in what format?

I recorded a couple of programs, and can view them just find from within Media Center, but I cannot find them on my hard disk. I travel often, and one of the main reasons for my building a home PVR is so that I can download recorded TV while on the road and watch on the plane/hotels/etc. If I can't do that with MCE then this will be an easy decision, as I can do it just fine with BTV.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bodine]

Ok... after a bit more searching, I found out that the files are stored in \Documents and Settings\All Users\Shared Documents\Recorded TV, and are in an encrypted, proprietary format called *.DVR-MS.

I also found a site that has plugins to covert DVR-MS files.. I'm going to check these out but at this point BTV seems like it's going to be much simpler for my purposes. Would love to hear arguments to the contrary, though, before I make my decision.

 

[rbV5]

DVR-MS files will play on another PC XP SP2 if they have a DVD decoder installed (they are MPEG2) or XP SP1 with a patch from MS. They are also easy to rip the MPEG from the ASF wrapper if you wanted.

I have heard BTV was pretty good. I used to use SageTV and I liked it OK. I really like MCE 2005 (never tried the prior versions), and the DVR-MS file format has turned into non issue for me since they are easy to rip.

 

[stash]

Also check out Fun with dvr-ms.

 

[Kilrsat]

I went with BeyondTV since MCE didn't support features I need, such as the ability to control my satellite receiver via serial cable, multiple channel line-ups, and the ability to watch/pause/rw/ff live tv at another computer.

 

[gpgofast]

I am using SageTV and have been quite happy with the program for the last 6 months. Controling a Dish Network reciever with an IR Blaster works VERY well. I'm not sure MCE has this ability, or the ability to easily stream/control over the network to another PC/HTPC running SageTV "Client" software. You should demo sage also. GP

 

[Bodine]

Originally posted by: rbV5
DVR-MS files will play on another PC XP SP2 if they have a DVD decoder installed (they are MPEG2) or XP SP1 with a patch from MS. They are also easy to rip the MPEG from the ASF wrapper if you wanted.

Really? That's encouraging. From what I read (I haven't been home yet to test), it seemed that the DVR-MS files were playable only within MCE. If I can play them on any PC, then I guess I still have a decision to make.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Bodine]

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
I went with BeyondTV since MCE didn't support features I need, such as the ability to control my satellite receiver via serial cable, multiple channel line-ups, and the ability to watch/pause/rw/ff live tv at another computer.

I'm leaning towards BeyondTV at this point, too, if only for the difference in price (USD$50 for BTV vs. $150-ish for MCE).

May I ask... I'm still in my trial period for BTV, and have't had a chance to learn all the bells and whistless, but how do you pause/ff/rw live TV from another PC?

I have my "main" PVR pc (the only one with a video-capture card) in my office, and my other PCs are connected via wireless link. Ignoring the wireless speed for the time being, how would I watch the live feed from another PC? I assumed I'd have to wait until recording finished before I could view the file on another system, or else need a seperate capture card.

The Beyond TV manual is pretty sparse. Might you have a link that describes how you do this?

Thanks!

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: Bodine

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
I went with BeyondTV since MCE didn't support features I need, such as the ability to control my satellite receiver via serial cable, multiple channel line-ups, and the ability to watch/pause/rw/ff live tv at another computer.

I'm leaning towards BeyondTV at this point, too, if only for the difference in price (USD$50 for BTV vs. $150-ish for MCE).

May I ask... I'm still in my trial period for BTV, and have't had a chance to learn all the bells and whistless, but how do you pause/ff/rw live TV from another PC?

I have my "main" PVR pc (the only one with a video-capture card) in my office, and my other PCs are connected via wireless link. Ignoring the wireless speed for the time being, how would I watch the live feed from another PC? I assumed I'd have to wait until recording finished before I could view the file on another system, or else need a seperate capture card.

The Beyond TV manual is pretty sparse. Might you have a link that describes how you do this?

Thanks!

This is done by installing BeyondTV Link on the other pc. Its basically a network client, and you get the full BeyondTV interface there. So you have access to all your recorded shows, the ability to add/edit upcoming recordings, and all live tv options.

 

[rbV5]

Really? That's encouraging. From what I read (I haven't been home yet to test), it seemed that the DVR-MS files were playable only within MCE. If I can play them on any PC, then I guess I still have a decision to make.

The broadcaster can flag broadcasts, those broacasts would be only able to play on the machine that recorded them. I've had no experience with them since none of my recordings have been, including HDTV captures (if you want integrated HD support, MCE is your only option IIRC) Perhaps those flagged broadcasts could be ripped as well, but I dunno.

I use graphedit and build a filter graph to rip them myself, but there are other utilities available.

 

[Goosemaster]

One of the most attractive features of BeyondTV is its Showsqueeze function. It will automatically transcode files into wma for you so you cn save disk space.
For example, I remember bringing a 70GB directory down to about 20GB at high-quality.

As Kilrsat explained, BeyondTV is a network Client that provides you with the enitre BeyondTV interface at other Networked PCs. This means you can watch Live TV and other recorded shows anywhere.

Keep in mind that with basically any PVR package, it iis recommended that you have a hardware encoder, or basically a card that can encode Mpeg2 in hardware. In addition, you cannot mix hardware and software tuners together using basically any software except MythTV in Linux. Finally, BeyondTV provides a web interface as well that allows you to configure it from any computer with internet access. You can also play wma files over the internet as well. ,

 

[dclive]

It's worth noting that MCE2005 has most of those features:

Control it (schedule shows) from anywhere on the internet via tv.msn.com or somesuch.
Play on any XP machine with a DVD player installed on it.
Play files over the network (assuming a LAN) or transcode so the files work on portables
*Very* easy to use, learn, set-up, etc. --- basically just install the OS, install a DVD player, update a driver or two sometimes, and that's it.

 

[Bodine]

Thank you for all the replies! Still undecided, but a more informed indeciciveness

Originally posted by: Kilrsat

This is done by installing BeyondTV Link on the other pc. Its basically a network client, and you get the full BeyondTV interface there. So you have access to all your recorded shows, the ability to add/edit upcoming recordings, and all live tv options.

Thanks. I'll have to check that out.

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

One of the most attractive features of BeyondTV is its Showsqueeze function

Yeah, I like that but it's not working for me. I specify Showsqueeze but it never does (even left it on overnight). I just get the option to "cancel showsqueeze" for each show. Tried it manually, too. If I go with BTV, I'll definately have to fix this. I like the SmartSkip function, too.

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Keep in mind that with basically any PVR package, it iis recommended that you have a hardware encoder

I have a Hauppauge PVR-350. Wish I had just gone with the 150/250 though, as I'm not using the decoder. Eventually I'll probably make a "real" HTPC and I can put the decoder to use.

Originally posted by: dclive
It's worth noting that MCE2005 has most of those features.

Just when I was leaning towards BTV because of the apparent features advantage....

If they were equally priced, I'd probably go with MCE but at this point I'm leaning towards BTV. I like the user-defined overlays and plugins, too.

Thanks again for all the replies!

 

[rbV5]

a "real" HTPC and I can put the decoder to use.

A "real" HTPC has little use for that decoder anyway.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Bodine

Originally posted by: dclive
It's worth noting that MCE2005 has most of those features.

Just when I was leaning towards BTV because of the apparent features advantage....

If they were equally priced, I'd probably go with MCE but at this point I'm leaning towards BTV. I like the user-defined overlays and plugins, too.

Thanks again for all the replies!

MCE2005 has plug-ins galore. A few trips to thegreenbutton.com will show a few. One I like is the DVD/Movies plug-in, allowing an elegant way to watch (and select) movies / DVDs whether online (as an ISO file) or offline (on the physical DVD): http://www.binnerup.dk/mce/mymovies.htm

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: Bodine

Originally posted by: dclive
It's worth noting that MCE2005 has most of those features.

Just when I was leaning towards BTV because of the apparent features advantage....

If they were equally priced, I'd probably go with MCE but at this point I'm leaning towards BTV. I like the user-defined overlays and plugins, too.

Thanks again for all the replies!

MCE2005 has plug-ins galore. A few trips to thegreenbutton.com will show a few. One I like is the DVD/Movies plug-in, allowing an elegant way to watch (and select) movies / DVDs whether online (as an ISO file) or offline (on the physical DVD): http://www.binnerup.dk/mce/mymovies.htm

Wow, look, I can do the same thing in BeyondMedia - http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22124

Of course, maybe I'm biased since it is my project, but I like mine better

 

[Griffinhart]

I'm using WinXP MCE 2005. I've never tried Beyond TV. I'm extremely happy with it so far. I can watch any Recorded show on any PC with WMP 10. I can schedule what to record from any machine on the web via MSN.

It's particularily great if you want to use a Media Center Extender. My media center PC is on the first floor. I use an X-Box extender over my wireless network so I can access everything up stairs. Extender uses the Media Center GUI and allows me to access Live TV, Recorded TV, the Radio Tuner, My photo's and MP3's, just as if I were on the media center itself. It even has a Messenger Client so friends can IM me while I am watching TV. All that without having to have a PC in my TV room.

There are other extenders other than the X-Box too. But they all work the same way. Windows MCE 2005 + Media Center Extender = Awesome

 

[Bodine]

Originally posted by: Griffinhart
It's particularily great if you want to use a Media Center Extender. My media center PC is on the first floor.

There are other extenders other than the X-Box too. But they all work the same way. Windows MCE 2005 + Media Center Extender = Awesome

That was my next step, which I didn't really bring up b/c it's secondary to my question of choosing PVR software. But I do plan to go with either a Media Center Extender or else (more likely) go with a Hauppauge MediaMVP - in order to get the recordings on my office computer to the TV in the den (completely on the other side of the house). The Extender is wireless and more full-featured, but seems to cost more than my freakin' PC did. The MediaMVP is only $99 or so, and I can run ethernet across the house for 20 or 30 bucks.

 

[minofifa]

hey kilsrat, good to see another snapstream user 'round here (dominating plug-ins by the way).

I got the complete package offered by snapstream, including a pvr-150, beyond tv, beyond media, and firefly which is a controller for the softare.
What sealed the deal for me is beyond media. it is awsome, especially if you add the plug-ins created by the users. Firefly is cool as well as it makes managing all of your media easier (music, photos, video).

 

[Griffinhart]

I'm pretty sure you can't use a Media Center Extender on anything but a Windows MCE 2005 box. I know it doesn't work on MCE2004 or earlier.

The devices you are thinking of are different. They are media players. They let you watch recorded TV, Music, etc, but, they do not let you watch Live TV or interact with the scheduling portion of your Media Center.

A Media Center Extender is a full Media Center Interface that lets you fully control your media center. You can schedule and record shows from the extender as well as access your pre-recorded media.

The Biggest advantage of the device you are thinking of is that is supports more Codecs than an Extender. Extenders only support Microsoft Codecs, MS-PVR, MPEG-2 and MP3 formats. If you want to play MOV, AVI's or Divx you are out of luck. While the Media Players support more formats, but, it varies brand to brand.

For Extenders: They are Wireless, but, they also can connect using a basic cat5 cable.

Extenders are expensive, though. The linksys extender runs $299 or so. But, you also have the option to do what I did. I picked up the X-Box Media Center Extender since I already owned an X-Box. It's a Disk and Remote Control that turns your X-Box into an Extender. The Total cost of it was $60 online. Since the X-Box already has an Ethernet port you can run a cable to it directly. Alternatively, an X-Box Wireless Adapter works very well with it too.

My set up is, The Media Center downstairs. My office and TV are upstairs. I just ran a cable to my Wireless switch from the X-Box and used my Existing Wireless network.

So, in a nutshell. the pro's and con's of both:

Media Player hardware:
Pros:
-Cheaper than Extenders.
-Typically plays more types of media files.
-Will work with All flavors of Media Center software. MS or other
Cons:
-Doesn't control your Media Center Tuners or Schedules
-Doesn't allow Live TV viewing

Hardware Extenders like Linksys and HP:
Pros:
-Brings the same media center shell from your PC to your TV.
-Allows viewing of Live TV
-Allows Complete control of your Media Center Tuners
-Completely silent
Cons:
-Does not support all media formats. AVI, Divx and MOV for example
-Expensive
-Will only work with Windows MCE 2005

X-Box Extender:
pros:
-Brings the same media center shell from your PC to your TV.
-Allows viewing of Live TV
-Allows Complete control of your Media Center Tuners
-if you own an X-box already, it's Cheap.
Cons:
-Does not support all media formats. AVI, Divx and MOV for example
-Will only work with Windows MCE 2005


There you have it.

While I'm on this topic, I'd like to suggest a TV tuner card.

I was using the Hauppauge PVR-150MCE. It is an excellent board, but, I ended up upgrading to a PVR-500MCE board. The primary difference being it has two Tuners onboard.

I recommend having a minimum of 2 TV tuners. You can use several single tuner cards or a multiple tuner card, but, I found 1 tuner to be to limiting.

 

[JackBurton]

Great info in this thread guys. Thanks.

 

[ColKurtz]

nevermind

 

[w33bo]