XP 1600+ AGOIA vs P4 1.6A for price/performance

[Xtasy]

I have came up to a dilemna, price over performance. Of course the P4 northwoods are the best performing processors out there, but its combo has become pricey:

P4 1.6A boxed ~ $140 (Average of first 10 or so dealers on pricewatch ~ $ 150)
Epox 4g4a ~ $90 (Average of first 10 or so dealers on pricewatch ~ $95)
Total ~ $230 plus shipping and possibly tax
if you live in CA, expect almost $50 extra payment to shipping and tax
and you might consider a cpu fan change to get the most out of it, probably the coolermaster heatpipe copper series - $30

Estimated OC : 2500mhz + (FSB: 155mhz +)

And heres AMD's case:

XP 1600+ AGOIA (@ newegg, check hot deals forum for more info) OEM ~ $70 (No average as it seems that newegg's stock 1600+ are AGOIA or AGOGA, etc...)
Epox 8k3a ~ $70 (Average of first 10 or so dealers on pricewatch ~ $75)
SVC GC68 ~ $6 or SVC Golden Gate 40 + quieter fan ~ $12
Total ~ $150 plus shipping and possibly tax
if you live in CA, expect almost $25 extra payment to shipping and tax

Estimated OC : 1800mhz + (2200+) (FSB: 166mhz +)

For about $110 cheaper, i think amd's combo has a good case vs. intel's combo. I geuss over the northwood craze, we have forgotten the value that amd gives. Also, the chance a AGOIA 1600+ hitting 1800 is much higher than a 1.6A hitting 2500, there have been many instances of 1.6A duds. What's your take?

 

[Duvie]

Well first off, I would like to say it was better awhile back....The 1.6a has risen in price of late...I got mine 6 weeks ago for 130 and free shipping....

Secondly where are you getting your prices??? It seems like you took the lowest or non-shipped number for amds but took not the lowest and added s&h for p4!!!

4g4a...@ pricewatch 90 - 10-12 S&H 102 (shipped from mwave)
1.6a...@pricewatch 68 - 78 s&h (first 4 not vendors I would deal with, mwave 81.00 shipped)

So how about like 20 bucks in mobos not 40!!!!

1.6a...@pricewatch 137 shipped (several below 150)
1600+ agoia oem...@pricewatch 65.00 shipped (no mention of any at 65 saying you will get an agoia chip!!!)

nice adding!!!

new prices...

1)1.6@ p4 w/ 4g4a = 239.00

2)amd 1600+xp w/ 8k3a w/ new hsf = 158.00

difference is like 81.00 bucks...

Remember also that the 4g4a comes with usb 2.0 and a 4:5 ratio so if you get to 155fsb you will be doing near 400mhz ddr....


My take ofcourse is I got a lot more then 2.5ghz with my 1.6 and therefore I think it was worth it...2200+ with the 1600+ is a nice oc, but reviews show the advantage would still go to the p4 at 2.5ghz...

 

[Xtasy]

I averaged the prices. Your epox 4g4a/ p4 1.6a combo may seem low, but i would end up paying up to $280 or higher because of tax, because i live in ca, and shipping. I took the agoia 1600 + from newegg, where if you look in the hot deals forum, people are getting all agoia from there. As a matter of fact, the price of the 1.6A has only been going up when i was eyeing it for $130. I originally planned to get a 1.6A and a good sis 645 mobo for $210, now if i planned to switch the mobo to a good i845g, i will end up paying $40 more for the mobo and $30 more for the cpu because of tax and shipping, darn all the lowest priced stores for the 1.6A and epox 4g4a reside in CA. I just typed northwood 1.6 in the pricewatch search engine and voila $137 lowest retailed box + tax because it is in CA and shipping = $155 +.

 

[hoihtah]

you're missing the point here.

consider the heat factor.

ever since northwood core...
i can't see why i'd want another heater.

heat=bad.

 

[Xtasy]

Heat is one thing that Intel has over AMD. I do have a Intel P4 williamette and AMD ATHLON T-BIRD 1.4 (hottest processor in the world) and i do like the fact that intel processors are cooler, but i think its the room because the room is not well ventilated that my amd athlon is in that makes it seem like a heater sometimes. And you can eliminate the notion that amd athlon needs $$$ in case/cooling/psu because many 1.6A overclockers achieve great OC by investing in good psu and cooling.

 

[Tbirdkid]

Me likes intel..... I had a 1700 xp and i clocked it to 2100.... my intel i bought a 1.6a and clocked it to 2.3 with a 300w psu generic and the retail big ass heat sink. My heatsink still has the pad on it and it is running at like 38 degrees c. Meanwhile my xp ran everybit of 52 degrees c. The way i look at it..... you get what you pay for. I was an amd man since the old k6-2 chips. That is all i built until now, the intel p4 runs sweet and it will run at 400 ddr with good memory and standard retail cooling. No need to go buy all those case fans and make your machine sound like the fab that the chip was built in. Just my opinion.

 

[o1die]

I've had 4 northwoods. Only the last 2 1.8a's from Fry's electronics wouldn't overclock worth a damn. But the quiet is wonderful. My current 1.8a is housed in a desktop case with 300 watt enlight power supply and no case fan. I tried one, and it was too noisy. My temps are pretty high for a northwood at 50-60 celcius, but I would never go back to amd and all that noise. You don't even have to overclock a northwood to get good performance. Just overclock the memory using the 4:5 ratio. My via board doesn't even have ratios but you can set it at hclk +33 for sandra memory scores of about 1300 or so.

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: Xtasy
And you can eliminate the notion that amd athlon needs $$$ in case/cooling/psu because many 1.6A overclockers achieve great OC by investing in good psu and cooling.

You would only really need a third-party HSF/Watercooling setup if A) You're a cooling freak and aren't happy until you have your case temps at -30C, B) You're going to push your CPU to the extreme, in which case A) most likely also applies, C) You get a crappy CPU that forces you to up the voltage .1v or more just to reach 2.4GHz. I've heard many reports of of people OC'ing their 1.6A to 2.6GHz or higher with the stock cooling.

 

[Mikki]

Yep, I'm one or em. 1,6A @ 2.55 1.61v 32c. And proud of my stock hsf...

 

[Xtasy]

I have a question, is a p4 skt 478 cooler such as the thermaltake volcano 478 superior over the stock hsf?

 

[CrazySaint]

The PAL8942 and Thermaltake P4 Volcano 7+ are probably the best HSFs for the P4, however, the stock HSF is very good and will likely be all you will need unless you get an exceptional CPU (capable of 2.7GHz+) or are a temp freak and want your CPU temp to be lower than the ambient temp.

 

[Duvie]

I have tried both the alpha and the thermaltake...The thermaltake was utter crap...I would look at alpha with a host of different 80mm fans or the swiftech hsf for the p4 sckt 478...

 

[Dravic]

Pardon the ramble but...

WOW.. am i impressed.. just recieved my MSI KT3 Ultra board, and XP 1600+. So far I have it up to 1866mhz(177.7x10.5 as per MSI's Fuzzy Logic utility) PR2726(according to Sandra . will boot up at 1900mhz but not stable with only 1.85 volts(board limit)

Using a ALPHA PAL8045 and a 80mm variable speed fan 26CFM -> 52CFM(auto adjust by temp sensor). temps are at a chilly 35c(bios reading) idle.. 40c(fuzz logic reading) under full load. I didnt see a temp senosr under in the socket, and the board supports AMD thermal diode.. so take the temps as you will.

I think my Corsair PC2400 ddr ram is also maxed at the 177x10.5 FSB.
Have it at cas 2.5 but can still run 4-way bank interleaving. reboots durning tests if I run it at cas 2 at 177.7 FSB or lower any other memory timings at higher FSB's.
I'm going to have to play around.. my mem scores were slightly faster at 170FSB cas2, but cpu wasnt as fast.. will have to see what gives me better real world results..

Been looping 3dmark and Sandra's mem test.

got some quick scores...

3dmark2001 SE (nvidia 29.42 drivers)
8067 w/ Vision tek geforce3 ti 200 (230/465).. damn early model ram.

Sandra
CPU -
ALU/FPU - 5126/2572
Multi -
int/float 10206/11859
Mem test
int/float - 2304/2175 ( was over 2400/2200 at cas2 170 FSB)

Total cost of upgrade $145($77 for MSI board, $68 for 1600+). now that is Bang for the Buck IMHO!!!!!!!!

I'll post my 3dmark link after i get the sound card, and lan card installed.. this was a dirty install.. didnt even re-install windows since it came from another via chipset(kt266 -> kt333) board was to anxious. Maybe my scores will increase after a clean install..

So.. a 466mhz overclock, thats just over a 33% OC not to shabby for an XP. AGOIA(cant remember.. it was def AG something stepping, and i dont see myself removing that alpha to find out.. lol). Doesnt compare to my 1ghz -> 1.43ghz 43%tbird OC.. but not to bad none the less.

 

[CrazySaint]

Hey Dravic, freakin' sweet OC there, man! Nice job!

 

[WetWilly]

I was in the same boat a few weeks back - P4 1.6A/Epox 4G4A vs XP/mobo combo. I ended up with the XP 1600+ and a MSI 745 Ultra. The AMD combo ended up costing me only $9 more shipped than the 1.6A CPU by itself, and I'm already accustomed to the fans in an AMD system.

Results? I ended up with a AGOIA XP1600+. It's now running at 9.5x190MHz FSB on the 745 Ultra (did a voltage mod) with a 256MB stick of Crucial PC2100. The 745 Ultra also has a confirmed 1/5 PCI divider at 166MHz. Plus my old Diamond MX300/Aureal Vortex 2 card that required chipset register patches to work on VIA boards works perfectly on the SiS 745 board. As for the web reviews that said the 745's memory controller is crap, I'm pushing 2600/2400 in Sandra 2002 at CAS2.5-6-3-3.