XKeyscore: NSA tool collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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I havent had a chance to read the article in its entirety. But it is clear our govt is turning that War on Terror against us.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

"I, sitting at my desk," said Snowden, could "wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email".

US officials vehemently denied this specific claim. Mike Rogers, the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee, said of Snowden's assertion: "He's lying. It's impossible for him to do what he was saying he could do."

Sure thing Mike. So far you guys are batting 0.00 on your claims about the capability and reach of these programs.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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I havent had a chance to read the article in its entirety. But it is clear our govt is turning that War on Terror against us.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

Sure thing Mike. So far you guys are batting 0.00 on your claims about the capability and reach of these programs.

The general idea Snowden portrayed is likely basically accurate, and congressman is probably technically right about how this actually works. I doubt there's some kind of GUI based application that Snowden could launch on his workstation to "phone tap" someone. But I have no doubt there's databases he could consult to get basically the same information, it's just that the info would be ETL'ed from a data warehouse and he'd be working in a sandbox environment rather than handling the data directly on the desktop.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
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Acknowledging what he called "a number of compliance problems", Clapper attributed them to "human error" or "highly sophisticated technology issues" rather than "bad faith".

...

"These types of programs allow us to collect the information that enables us to perform our missions successfully – to defend the nation and to protect US and allied troops abroad."
Ah, perfect.

"Mistakes are sometimes made. But this is for your own protection. Trust us."




In a statement to the Guardian, the NSA said: "NSA's activities are focused and specifically deployed against – and only against – legitimate foreign intelligence targets in response to requirements that our leaders need for information necessary to protect our nation and its interests.
Really.
And how long do they think that is going to last?
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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Its not the GUI I care about, its the database. A SQL query pro can still rape away my rights if the database exists.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
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"I, sitting at my desk," said Snowden, could "wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email".

Unless it's an NSA e-mail address, in which case they don't have the tools or capability. :awe:
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
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And their system did such a good job of stopping (or even detecting) the Boston bombing :rolleyes:

And from USA Today article on first leakers, it almost sounds like 1) the data base is not encrypted, and 2) they don't carefully log any and all attempts to query database (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...istleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/)






NSA's $1.2 trillion dollar flop (Trailblazer): http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/new-yorker-on-thomas-drake/ (Thin Thread would have only cost $3 million)
"As a contractor, Drake had become familiar with a data-mining program codenamed ThinThread, that had been tested within the NSA and could be deployed in Afghanistan, Pakistan and other regions where terrorism was prevalent. After 9/11, the program seemed ideal to address the suddenly urgent need to track down terrorist targets.

The program was created in the late ’90s by Bill Binney, a mathematician and head of the NSA’s SARC unit. It was designed to trap, map and mine vast amounts of data in real time to pick out relevant and suspicious communications, rather than requiring the data to be stored and sifted later. The New Yorker details it:

As Binney imagined it, ThinThread would correlate data from financial transactions, travel records, Web searches,GPS equipment, and any other “attributes” that an analyst might find useful in pinpointing “the bad guys.” By 2000, Binney, using fibre optics, had set up a computer network that could chart relationships among people in real time. It also turned the N.S.A.’s data-collection paradigm upside down. Instead of vacuuming up information around the world and then sending it all back to headquarters for analysis, ThinThread processed information as it was collected—discarding useless information on the spot and avoiding the overload problem that plagued centralized systems. Binney says, “The beauty of it is that it was open-ended, so it could keep expanding.”

The program was “nearly perfect” except for one thing. It swooped up the data of Americans as well as foreigners and continued to intercept foreign communications as they traversed U.S.-based switches and networks. This violated U.S. law, which forbids the collection of domestic communication without a probable-cause warrant.

To solve this problem, Binney added privacy controls and an “anonymizing feature” to encrypt all American communications that ThinThread processed. The system would flag patterns that looked suspicious, which authorities could then use to obtain a warrant and decrypt the information.

ThinThread was ready to deploy in early 2001, but the NSA’s lawyers determined it violated Americans’ privacy, and NSA director Michael Hayden scrapped it. In its place, Hayden focused funding on a different program, codenamed Trailblazer, which the NSA contracted with outside defense companies, like SAIC, to produce.

That system ran into numerous problems and cost overruns, yet continued with Hayden’s support. Hayden’s deputy director and his chief of signals-intelligence programs worked at various times for SAIC, which received several Trailblazer contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars. In 2006, after eating up some $1.2 billion, Trailblazer was finally deemed a flop and killed.

But in the meantime, just weeks after the 9/11 attacks, rumors began circulating within the NSA that the agency, with the approval of the White House, was violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act by conducting domestic surveillance. On Oct. 4, 2001, President Bush authorized the policy, which was operational by Oct. 6.

Drake said strange things began happening inside the NSA, with equipment suddenly being moved, and people who worked on FISA warrants being re-assigned. Drake saw this as a tipoff that the conventional legal surveillance process was being circumvented.

Binney, who wasn’t involved directly in the post-9/11 surveillance program, was certain that the rumored surveillance must be using components of the ThinThread program he helped design, but with the privacy protections now stripped out of it."

Hadyn now works for former DHS chief Michael Chertoff's lobbying firm in DC and DHS budget has jumped from $20 billion to $60 billion. Incompetent crony capitalism at it's worst...
 
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Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,369
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You have my sympathy. You have managed to become the closest thing to 1984 in the world.

May the NSA and its employees all DIAF, thus saving the US of A.
 

debian0001

Senior member
Jun 8, 2012
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My impression is that the .gov is hoarding a ton of data... if they can even do anything with that data, that's what I think is where they lack functionality. I don't know if anyone out here has ever used any e-discovery tools on fileservers.. it sucks for the most part and doesn't work.
 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
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Good news, the $2 billion dollar Utah data center that we all got to vote for comes online in September... But wait, it gets better. They are also adding a giant expansion to the computer center at the NSA base in Fort Meade, Maryland. We are all going to feel so much safer when those systems go online.

Hell, it may get to the point where you have to hand deliver a letter to ensure it isn't stored somewhere.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
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My impression is that the .gov is hoarding a ton of data... if they can even do anything with that data, that's what I think is where they lack functionality. I don't know if anyone out here has ever used any e-discovery tools on fileservers.. it sucks for the most part and doesn't work.
This is not a long term concern. Business intelligence gets better all the time. More computing power, advances in logic, what seems burdensome today will not be tomorrow, and as long as the data is there once the analytics are finely tuned they'll be able to easily go back into the past and rebuild what seems hard to see now.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
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start at 1 hr 09 minute mark: http://twit.tv/show/this-week-in-google/209 ("searchable by any bozo from Booz Allen"*)




*
Q: So Snowden's ability to access information wasn't an exception?


Binney: And they didn't know he was doing (it). ... That's the point, right? ...They should be doing that automatically with code, so the instant when anyone goes into that base with a query that they are not supposed to be doing, they should be flagged immediately and denied access. And that could be done with code.

But the government is not doing that.
So that's the greatest threat in this whole affair.

Wiebe: And the polygraph that is typically given to all people, government employees and contractors, never asks about integrity. Did you give an honest day's work for your pay? Do you feel like you are doing important and proper work? Those things never come up. It's always, "Do you have any association with a terrorist?" Well, everybody can pass those kinds of questions. But, unfortunately, we have a society that is quite willing to cheat."



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...istleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/
 
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Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,203
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My impression is that the .gov is hoarding a ton of data... if they can even do anything with that data, that's what I think is where they lack functionality. I don't know if anyone out here has ever used any e-discovery tools on fileservers.. it sucks for the most part and doesn't work.

The NSA hasn't been building supercomputer clusters for decades just to have them sit around and look pretty. You can be pretty sure that such functionality has been planned (and getting constructed/installed) for quite some time, imho.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
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The NSA hasn't been building supercomputer clusters for decades just to have them sit around and look pretty. You can be pretty sure that such functionality has been planned (and getting constructed/installed) for quite some time, imho.

Supercomputers are far more useful for cracking encryption. You don't need one for the type of data mining that's being talked about here, just big data farms with vast amounts of commodity hardware.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
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This is a bit creepy but after the NSA's screw up with Trailblazer and the FBI's disastrous Virtual Case File project I am very, very skeptical that .gov is capable of creating this crazy database that has everyone's internet use at an analyst's fingertips.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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CNN Opinion: NSA secrets kill our trust.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/31/opinion/schneier-nsa-trust/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

It pleases me to see so many people speak out against this. This is why I have to say Snowden is a hero. He has forced this issue into the light again.

As the author of this piece reminds us, the government is CONSTANTLY lying to us.

I truly have no trust in what it says now. How can I trust a habitual liar? That makes me a fool. I have no trust in any corporations I deal with. I assume that HTTPS makes me pretty secure from the average hacker, but the government? It's right into all my shit, right up in my asshole deep, and it will only get worse.

Not only is the government--with the blessing of federal courts (one step away from SCOTUS telling us to take in the rear now regarding court orders and cell phones)--lying to us, but corporations are. And hilariously, I can't even blame them as they are legally compelled now to lie about what they are doing. It is a huge fucking sham in the name of the make believe enemy (terrorism) that kills so few people it hasn't ever made it anywhere close to a top 10 list of deaths in the US, even in 2001. All this money and time spent on tomfoolery.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
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This is a bit creepy but after the NSA's screw up with Trailblazer and the FBI's disastrous Virtual Case File project I am very, very skeptical that .gov is capable of creating this crazy database that has everyone's internet use at an analyst's fingertips.
Interesting, though isn't it that you don't doubt any longer it wants to, nor will it even try and deny it. We're now at the point where we can no longer say "Go get your tinfoil hat, the government doesn't care when you call your mother, moron!" to "Yes, the gov wants to track everything you do, but it's not smart enough."

The gov is well monied and has a lot of clever folk working for it. It has a lot of failed projects and a lot of successful ones.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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This is a bit creepy but after the NSA's screw up with Trailblazer and the FBI's disastrous Virtual Case File project I am very, very skeptical that .gov is capable of creating this crazy database that has everyone's internet use at an analyst's fingertips.

Getting the data is the easy part and a fait accompli, it's setting up something to allow it to be analyzed that's hard. They're obviously not going to stop gathering the information, so I'd almost rather they succeed since without a system in place it makes auditing who accessed the data and what they did with it much harder (if not impossible).
 

MrColin

Platinum Member
May 21, 2003
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The real danger IMO is that rogue analysts who are also employed by firms on Wall St. can use this information and nobody else can. This data is collected with public funds and therefore it should be publicly available for everyone to use. If it isn't suitable for public consumption, it shouldn't be collected in the first place.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
The real danger IMO is that rogue analysts who are also employed by firms on Wall St. can use this information and nobody else can. This data is collected with public funds and therefore it should be publicly available for everyone to use. If it isn't suitable for public consumption, it shouldn't be collected in the first place.

Or the IRS. Or the DEA. Or the some other non-terrorism related three letter department.