XFX loses lawsuit for bait n switch operation

[Magic Carpet]

An XFX representative needs to chime in, IMO.

 

[Corporate Thug]

An XFX representative needs to chime in, IMO.

not much to comment on...they replaced the card with the closest thing they had performance wise, OP read the terms of the warranty narrowly, judge agreed w/ OP's reading of terms.

 

[Ferzerp]

An XFX representative needs to chime in, IMO.

Why? Absolutely no good can come of it, especially considering that most of the repliers here are more interested in the character of the OP than the merits of his claims.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

Except that XFX is in no way responsible for the fact that you bought water-blocks. You might as well expect Ford to take into account your custom paint job when you send your vehicle in for replacement -- not going to happen.

XFX was only responsible for fulfilling the promises of the warranty contract. I never claimed otherwise.

It's also not as if you bought your two graphics cards as part of a package. Your warranty covered one card, expecting them to replace both was unrealistic unless both were failing.

I didn't expect them to do anything but fulfill the promises stated in the warranty. If they wanted an "out", then I might have considered many alternative arrangements. Any attempt to bring this to their attention resulted in hung up phone calls, RMA runarounds, BBB promises that weren't honored and false evidence at trial.

Putting aside the fact that a single faster card with more memory and more features is going to give a better experience than two slower cards in SLI, you could have just sold the GTX 260 for more than it would have cost you to pick up another 8800 ultra

A single 260 is not going to give a better experience than two 8800Ultra's! Where do you get these "facts" from?

Not my responsibility to buy and sell and take risks on non warrantied products to get back to the point where I was before the product became defective. THEY could have sold the 260, THEY could have picked up another 8800, referbed it, and backed it until the warranty expired. They could have offered a negotiated refund, they could have offered a trade-up...

...instead, the only thing they offered was a door in my face.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Why? Absolutely no good can come of it, especially considering that most of the repliers here are more interested in the character of the OP than the merits of his claims.

I think, it would be nice to hear the other side, though. All we got here is speculation as to why it happened the way it did. Except, for the OP's economical background, we know very little. Good communication is essential in business. I do realize, that the "format of this discussion", perhaps, is not fitting for them, however, it is in their interests to make some sort of statement, at least.

 

[SunnyD]

I expect the end of XFX's lifetime warranty because of this...

[I love] you, OP.

There's a limit to what we'll allow. Hurling profanity at someone else is that limit
-ViRGE

Aww, so I can't call the OP an ass? I mean, come on! Look at his username!!!

 

[railven]

That's just misinterpreting what I said.

My apologies, it was just the wording following the most recent thing I read, I didn't realize you were responding to something he said a few posts back.

I think, it would be nice to hear the other side, though. All we got here is speculation as to why it happened the way it did. Except, for the OP's economical background, we know very little. Good communication is essential in business. I do realize, that the "format of this discussion", perhaps, is not fitting for them, however, it is in their interests to make some sort of statement, at least.

Outside of more character attacks, which are users are already doing a fine job at, what else do you expect them to say? Admit to some fault? I've had customer services rep tell me to my face that I am lying about not giving me something to sign when they are still holding the paper they asked me to sign minutes ago.

People make mistakes, and I wouldn't put it past someone's ego getting the best over them. If the OP is honest, which frankly I don't see why he'd lie and continue to lie to strangers - but then again this be the internetz, we can possibly look up the BBB complaint. They are obligated to post those kind of things if I remember right.

I'm more fascinated with all the "well you should have done this or that" posts after it's all be said and done. Haha.

As for the bait and switch, this can probably be classified as one. Bait and Switch also applies to services, ie you paid for Service-A they no longer offer Service-A so they offer your Service-B, it is up to you to agree to the new terms or the agreement you had is now null, or they can grandfather you into Service-A. I remember when AT&T had unlimited data then they capped it, imagine the ruckus if they suddenly told all their users "check it, we can't do unlimited anymore, you are now capped" - lawsuits! XFX most likely is doing this on a case-to-case basis and they are probably getting away with it by offering something "better" to the end user who in turn is giving up their rights.

I'm not surprised.

 

[Phynaz]

Guys, he registered to post this.
You're being trolled.

OP, prove your post isn't BS. Link to the court docs please.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

bait and switch, being fraudulent, requires the element of intent to be proven.

If they knew at the time they sold the product; that they weren't going to honor warranty claims, then that would satisfy the intent requirement and punitive damages could then be argued.

Otherwise it's just a breach of contract case.

 

[Ferzerp]

Guys, he registered to post this.
You're being trolled.

OP, prove your post isn't BS. Link to the court docs please.

Likely. I have been assuming truth for my views on the matter. If such an occurance happened as the OP stated, they are my views on the matter. You'll note that in my first reply I make sure to point out assuming we're being given an accurate representation of what has happened, then I think this.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

Yeah, I'm making this all up...

 

[DeeJayeS]

tl-dr summary of this thread:

1. OP is newly registered and uses inflammatory title to get hits
2. XFX tried to accommodate his warranty claim
3. small claims court judge most likely rubber stamps verdict in favor of the little guy
4. assuming he's not trolling, we can all thank OP for high cost of transacting business today

Did I miss anything?

 

[railven]

Out of boredome at work, found this:

http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Computer-Dealers-Retail/XFX-USA-in-Ontario-CA-13204616

EDIT: On this link, click complaints, then scroll down to "Customer not satisfied with business response; BBB did not find business made good faith effort to resolve complaint (5)" and it is the warranty complaint filed 01/23/2012

Additional Notes

Complaint: 01/23/2012: I had purchased a XFX graphics card with a lifetime warranty which was defective and shipped back to XFX at my own expense. The replacement video card they issued to me has now proven to be defective as well. XFX (Eric in tech support) refused to cover the cost to ship their defective product back. The customer should only have to pay for shipping ONCE, not to ship products that are defective TWICE!
Business response: The last time that a product was to us for RMA was three years ago. We often do cover shipping if a product fails soon after being sent in for service but not after this type of timeframe. The product is already at our service center and is in testing. If the product fails then we will honor our warranty and replace it but we will not reimburse for the incoming shipping.
Consumer rebuttal: The shipping charges to return your video card was guaranteed by Ryan Dumas when you shipped the wrong video card to me as a replacement for the one I returned. (See BBB Complaint ID #98403322) Since you have failed to fulfill the promises you made in my warranty and the promises made in the above mentioned complaint, it is clear your intention is to avoid the costs imposed by your own actions. You are liable until the statute of limitations has expired. (3 years from date of lawful misconduct.) You have failed to fulfill the warranty on my original video card and shipped a different model. You have failed to cover the costs and damages imposed by your willful misconduct. You have willfully violated consumer laws for economic gain and brought upon yourself a reputation that echos though the computer industry. You have until February 10, 2012 to ship to me a PV-T80U-SHD9 plus $13.53 or I will begin legal proceedings against Eastcom, Inc. for damages, court costs, legal fees and any other award the Court deems appropriate.

Google searched that model number (PV-T80U-SHD9 ), and bam it's a GeForce 8800 Ultra. Threat of legal action and mentioning of statue of limitation, so figured it might be the same case.

Also, the vendor's response is that last time this ID/Product (I assume) was RMA'ed was 3 years ago (2009) ties in to the information here also.

Seems if this is the same guy, he had a second RMA and this all escalated from the original shipping cost fees haha.

 

[KingFatty]

Did I miss anything?

Also, even the weirdest suits can motivate corporations to change for the better - such as revising their warranty claims and simplifying the language for everyone to understand.

Like even in class action suits - they aren't for helping each person, rather they are for punishing the corporation and making the corporation behave better.

 

[railven]

Break time over, going to go on a limb re-reading that complaint and what I know from this thread - it is the same guy.

Anyways, anyone want to find the skinny on this: See BBB Complaint ID #98403322?

Or does anyone even care anymore? I'm done being that stalker guy back to work haha.

 

[bononos]

XFX was only responsible for fulfilling the promises of the warranty contract. I never claimed otherwise.

.........

You claimed otherwise when you said that you would only accept 2 aircooled 280s and not 2 aircooled 260s in one of your previous post. That to me sounds like you are holding XFX responsible for breaking your waterblock/overclock.

 

[Corporate Thug]

OP, what is the case number?

 

[guskline]

Break time over, going to go on a limb re-reading that complaint and what I know from this thread - it is the same guy.

Anyways, anyone want to find the skinny on this: See BBB Complaint ID #98403322?

Or does anyone even care anymore? I'm done being that stalker guy back to work haha.

How do you access that?

 

[zijin_cheng]

I think OP is right IF the warranty clearly states that XFX HAS to replace with the card with the exact same one. XFX has to honour it, whether he has SKi or not has no bearing on whether XFX has the right to replace with a different one or not.

He is completely correct and no one can fault him for wanting either a 8800 or an equivalebt SLI setup such as 2 gtx275 (let's not be too greedy here, an overclocked air 275 can easily match an 8800, a 280 might be too far a cry)

However, only OP will know what really went on and we have only his word, and if he is **** enough to sing a different tune than what really went on to get everyone to hate XFX then well, only he will know.

also, based on what gluteus posted as part of the clause, in my opinion he is extremely lucky that the judge sided with him because based on that it seems at least to me that it could go 50:50, it is not clear, probably what XFX did was advertise that they would replace with the exact same one but leave that ambiguity in the clause to leave themselves breathing room if a situation like this ever came up

 

[Imp]

They did defraud him, and he is being unreasonable.

First they defrauded him when they claimed the new warranty wording applies to him even though he bought it under the old wording.
Then they defrauded him by claiming he signed a waiver which he didn't sign.

He himself doesn't call either of those things fraud though, he thinks that is bait and switch (which is a different type of fraud).

The claiming that the new warranty applied was a dick move - if we are to believe that OP did not click "agree" to accepting a new warranty in one of the standard "agreement" things no one reads.

But I'm just going on the "general intent" of a warranty, which is usually to make a defective product workable so that it may continue to perform its function reliably until the original and/or new guarantee period is over (occasionally 30/90 days after replacement, or for remainder of original warranty) - usually with a similar or better model. If we take it to the letter, the original warranty the OP posted was just piss poorly written by XFX.

Out of boredome at work, found this:

http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Computer-Dealers-Retail/XFX-USA-in-Ontario-CA-13204616

EDIT: On this link, click complaints, then scroll down to "Customer not satisfied with business response; BBB did not find business made good faith effort to resolve complaint (5)" and it is the warranty complaint filed 01/23/2012

Nice find... Funny. Did the OP mention that he tried the 260 and it was defective? It's been 8 pages, so I don't remember. Then he goes on about the "wrong model" which he's claimed ad infinitum with a bunch of "legal" mumbo jumbo. Yep, that's him.

I assure you I know exactly how and why I won my case. It took me 30 seconds to present my case. 30 seconds for XFX to present false evidence. 30 seconds for the Judge to read my copy of the warranty and 30 seconds for their copy. Then 1 minute for the Judge to squeeze the truth out of XFX about their warranty. They then lost all credibility in the Judge's eyes and any hope of winning the case.

And so... "raking their ass across the coals" turns out to be just 30 seconds each for the judge, him, and XFX, and some 30 seconds for reading.

 

[3DVagabond]

it was probably impossible for them to replace it as that card is about a 4 years old and they dont have of them

While this is likely true they still should have worked harder with him to resolve it. I'm sure the judge was pretty pissed at XFX for the court having to take it's valuable time for something so trivial.

Again, I'd like to repeat that it's a fairly new development a 4 year old item, especially something that cost $100's of dollars, should be unserviceable. Personally, I think this is unacceptable. Imagine if it was out of warranty. Anyone who had one would be SOL if they needed a repair.

How would you like to buy a $500 - $800 (I can't remember the exact price of the card ) bicycle and if you needed to replace the brake caliper after 4yrs. you were told it was out of warranty, you'll have to buy a new bike? Or a washing machine? They should have to maintain spare parts for a longer period than that. By offering a lifetime warranty you are implying that the purchaser will have the services of the product forever. If they want to replace rather than repair, that's fine, but the user shouldn't be penalized for that. At the very least they should have offered him 2 cards in his instance.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Can we get a thread name change here? This isn't bait and switch.
Also, reported to XFX legal for defamation. (Defamation per se -- woohoo!)

 

[RigRebel]

I sent a defective video card to XFX and they tried to send me back a different model. The warranty I had was the older warranty which didn't include the clause that states they could switch my card with a different one. XFX attempted to impose their newly written warranty upon my purchase and refused to ship to me the same card that I purchased. Long story short, I sued them. Yesterday 6/1/2012 I received a judgment against them in the amount of $585.00.

A special thanks goes out to Brian at XFX who stated they had the right to ship a different product because I signed the waiver they ask to be signed when you return a defective product (even though I didn't sign it), to Ryan Dumas who sent a different card to me and refused to send the correct one, to Erik who refused to issue a prepaid postage label to return their wrongfully shipped item, to Mark C. who said my lawsuit wasn't going to accomplish anything and a special thanks to Lloyd Lees, their marketing manager, who lacked the ability to provide a proper defense at trial.

I must say, I really enjoyed raking their ass across the coals for their bait n switch operation. I did this all at the Rancho Cucamonga small claims court from the convenience of my home while sitting in my underwear (appearance by telephone). It was a great pleasure to stick it to XFX after hearing all the crap they've been dealing out to the consumers they do business with and for all the crap they tried to pull on me.

Dude that is awesome! .. maybe you can help me with this shotty product I got > http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167140
Rough machined heat plate no polishing.

 

[lavaheadache]

I would have sent this via PM, but you don't have it enabled. I have a snazzy GTX 260 core 216 55nm that I may be willing to trade for your remaining Ultra.