XFX 7970 BEDD and Antec P280

[Le Québécois]

After reading a lot of reviews on the XFX 7970 BEDD, it seems that you need a case with a good airflow to keep everything inside cool because of the 7970 BEDD open air cooler versus the reference AMD cooler.

I just bought an Antec P280 and was planing on buying the XFX 7970 BEDD. The other components are taken from my "old" Antec 900 case:

EVGA P55 FTW
Core i5 750 stock
Noctua NH-U12P
4X4GB G.Skill ripjaws x
2x 640GB WD Black

Here's my question:

If I want to keep everything cool AND quiet, is changing the 3 x antec twocool exhaust fans for 3 x Noctua NF-P12(running at 1300RPM) and installing two of the "twocool" set to "low RPM" in the front enough to do the job?

If not, any recommendation?

PS: Price isn't an issue for the fans since I already own the 3 Noctua NF-P12.

 

[Panopticon]

I dunno about that card from what some people have been saying about the VRM's overheating. Is there a reason you don't want a reference card? I have only seen maybe two posts where people tried to OC the BE and I think both times it would only clock to around 1100. I think if you want a non ref card there should be some better ones on the way later this month.

 

[Le Québécois]

I'm not a big fan (no pun intended) of AMD's reference heatsink/fan. I have a XFX 5870 and properly cleaning that type of heatsink is a nightmare if you ask me. The DD seems to use a interesting design, reducing the load noise and from the look of it at least, a lot easier to clean.

The idea behind my purchase of the P280 is to have a powerful yet silent(well, not too noisy) system which is why I'm interested in the DD.

I had good experiences with XFX customer support and warranty in the past so I'd prefer to stick to that brand if possible and since they already have a non ref card, the DD, I doubt they'll produce a new one in the coming months.

Still, I'm open to suggestions.

Btw, I'd be buying the BEDD for the DD and not the BE(still it doesn't hurt) but the normal DD doesn't seems to be available for now.

 

[Despoiler]

The XFX DD is a terrible design. The VRM isn't being properly cooled due to poor fan placement. Skip it or regret it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2219470

 

[skipsneeky2]

Why a new case Op?

The antec 900 for me is one of my favorite cases for builds with excellent airflow and any card besides the 6990 would work in the case.

Maybe tight for some but still that case just offers huge airflow or looking for more quiet computing?

 

[3DVagabond]

For case cooling you are better to have more intake pressure than exhaust. This serves two purposes (1) Positive air pressure in the case improves heat transfer to the air. (2) positive air pressure stops dust from being drawn in through crevices and unfiltered areas and helps to keep things more dust free. Negative pressure in the case will draw dust in around buttons, USB connectors, rear inputs, optical drives, etc...

As far as the actual cooler on that card, while it's a nifty dual fan, it doesn't cool the over all card as well as the reference cooler. It is a bit quieter under load, though.

They've since took down the thermal pictures of the cards on hardware.fr, but notty22 did save the pics before they did. source

Top image is the reference card O/C'd with stock voltage at full load.

bottom image is the XFX DD also O/C'd on stock voltage at full load.

While 107C is a safe temp for VRM's I wouldn't want to see how hot they'd get with some extra voltage dumped into the card. Meanwhile the reference card is running 22C cooler. That's a lot! No point in buying a card with a poorer cooling solution. Never mind paying extra for it. If you like XFX, just get a reference card from them. If you want a custom solution the Gigabyte GV-R7970C-3GD looks promising. Since they are in reviewer's hands we should get full reviews very soon.

 

[Quantos]

If I were you, I'd just wait for other custom designs. I'm not a big fan of reference coolers either, but I can see the XFX doesn't seem like a very good card. After all, there might be a reason why it came out of launch... perhaps less R&D was done on it.

It fits my plans anyway, because I'm waiting on Ivy Bridge to upgrade everything at once (or almost at once), so I don't mind waiting. If you need a graphics card right now, though...

 

[Le Québécois]

The XFX DD is a terrible design. The VRM isn't being properly cooled due to poor fan placement. Skip it or regret it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2219470

I read both the thread you linked to and the hardware.fr review on the XFX card.

The discussion going on about the DD and overheating issues is an interesting one but everyone seems to agree that the problem would only seems to show up is the card is O/C'd at high level and with added voltage. If not, the VRM temp seems to stay at an acceptable level even if it runs higher than the one on a reference design.

As for the Hardware.fr review, or any other reviews on the XFX DD on the web I could find(including anandtech), none of them seems to think the card is poorly designed. As a matter of fact, most reviewers seem to think highly of the card.

While this will make me think about alternative, I wouldn't act as you did and post doomsday warning message to scare people. Still thanks for the input, I'll that it into consideration.

 

[Le Québécois]

Why a new case Op?

The antec 900 for me is one of my favorite cases for builds with excellent airflow and any card besides the 6990 would work in the case.

Maybe tight for some but still that case just offers huge airflow or looking for more quiet computing?

I've been using the 900 for more than 4 years and I really love this case. Even after installing my system in the P280, I'll still recommend the 900 for people building new computers.

Still, there are some design flaws in that case and I'm tired to deal with them myself.

-Cable management. There's simply no real cable management to speak of in the 900. The P280 will allows me to easily put everything behind the motherboard, even the HDD are connected from behind. Good for the airflow, the esthetic and make it much easier to clean if you ask me.

-Dust. There's no filters on the 900 (at least not on the original, the one I own). I'm tired of having to clean my computer every month. Unless I'm missing something, the filters on the P280 should allow me to keep it dust free and reduce the number of time I have to clean it in a year.

-Noise. The 900 is decent here but I want something even more quiet which is why I was planing on using Noctua NF-P12 in the case coupled with 2 of the twocool running at low.

-Too tight. I've build hundreds of computers in my life (was working in a computer store) and I'm tired to have to be careful not to cut myself every time I need to "play" inside the case. I used to own an Antec full tower before buying the 900 and I can't wait to go back to a bigger case.

I really love the 900 but the after using it for more than 4 years, I don't think it's for me. I'm getting too old. So yeah, basically, I'm looking for more quiet computing.

 

[Le Québécois]

For case cooling you are better to have more intake pressure than exhaust. This serves two purposes (1) Positive air pressure in the case improves heat transfer to the air. (2) positive air pressure stops dust from being drawn in through crevices and unfiltered areas and helps to keep things more dust free. Negative pressure in the case will draw dust in around buttons, USB connectors, rear inputs, optical drives, etc...

Thanks, that's great information. If I were to put two of my Noctua NF-P12 in the front for intake, use one in the back behind the CPU and leave the two "twocool" ones on the top running at low, do you think it would be enough to make it positive air pressure instead of negative? If not, any recommendation?

As far as the actual cooler on that card, while it's a nifty dual fan, it doesn't cool the over all card as well as the reference cooler. It is a bit quieter under load, though.

They've since took down the thermal pictures of the cards on hardware.fr, but notty22 did save the pics before they did. source

Top image is the reference card O/C'd with stock voltage at full load.

bottom image is the XFX DD also O/C'd on stock voltage at full load.

While 107C is a safe temp for VRM's I wouldn't want to see how hot they'd get with some extra voltage dumped into the card. Meanwhile the reference card is running 22C cooler. That's a lot! No point in buying a card with a poorer cooling solution. Never mind paying extra for it. If you like XFX, just get a reference card from them. If you want a custom solution the Gigabyte GV-R7970C-3GD looks promising. Since they are in reviewer's hands we should get full reviews very soon.

Do you think this would be a problem if I didn't plan on overclocking the card higher than the BEDD is already at?

Reading this, I think I might wait for other custom design, as long as it doesn't take too long for them to reach the market as I already have a buyer waiting for my 5870.

Still, this doesn't really answer my question: If I decide to go with the DD or any open air design cooler, would the P280 with the extra Nocta fans (I'll wait for your input to decide how to set them up) be enough or should I stay with the AMD reference board to avoid the extra heat inside the case?

Last but not least, the pictures are still there on the original article (I read it in French) and seems to have been removed only with the google translate version you provided in your other post.

 

[Le Québécois]

If I were you, I'd just wait for other custom designs. I'm not a big fan of reference coolers either, but I can see the XFX doesn't seem like a very good card. After all, there might be a reason why it came out of launch... perhaps less R&D was done on it.

It fits my plans anyway, because I'm waiting on Ivy Bridge to upgrade everything at once (or almost at once), so I don't mind waiting. If you need a graphics card right now, though...

That's my problem, I can't wait too long for the new card. Still, after reading all of this and doing some research on upcoming non reference design cooler coming from Gigabyte and Powercolor, I might wait a little longer if my 5870 buyer can wait a little longer.

 

[3DVagabond]

I should have realized, considering your handle, you wouldn't need to translate the review. I'm sure reading it in French gives you a better grasp of the original article. :thumbsup:

As far as your case cooling goes, I'd say you will have plenty of air circulation for a video card design that doesn't exhaust the air out of the case. Basically you just want to be sure you are drawing in more air than you are "sucking" out. If I understand you correctly you are going to have 2x intake and 3x exhaust. I'd say to run the exhaust fans all on low with the intakes on medium. Or, if possible use larger intake fans (140mm maybe). Lian-Li, for example (they make great cases) would typically use 2x140mm in with 2x120mm out.

 

[Quantos]

Do you think this would be a problem if I didn't plan on overclocking the card higher than the BEDD is already at?

Reading this, I think I might wait for other custom design, as long as it doesn't take too long for them to reach the market as I already have a buyer waiting for my 5870.

Still, this doesn't really answer my question: If I decide to go with the DD or any open air design cooler, would the P280 with the extra Nocta fans (I'll wait for your input to decide how to set them up) be enough or should I stay with the AMD reference board to avoid the extra heat inside the case?

Last but not least, the pictures are still there on the original article (I read it in French) and seems to have been removed only with the google translate version you provided in your other post.

I think an open fan design shouldn't really be a problem, especially if you don't plan on overclocking the card. At most, even with bad tower airflow, it's going to increase the temperature by a few degrees. Of course that's not optimal, but it's not a critical issue.

A couple of custom fans should be plenty in order to move the air from the card out (3DVagabond is much better than mine on this )

I'd also just like to elaborate a bit on why I think the DD isn't a very good card. From the outside, it looks like a custom card designed for overclocking, but looking at how it behaves, it seems it's a card designed to be just a bit better than the reference, and sell because of that. Evidence of that is that the PCB is the reference one, so really the only action taken is to swap the cooler. A card cannot really be meant a good overclocker without a custom PCB. Granted, it's not sold as the "omg ultra OC card", but then it shouldn't be bought with that in mind. The hardware.fr review is proof that the goal here was to offer an alternative that's perhaps a little better at near-to-stock clocks. That, along with the fact that there's a premium to pay to get it, is what makes it a poor card in my opinion.

 

[Le Québécois]

I should have realized, considering your handle, you wouldn't need to translate the review. I'm sure reading it in French gives you a better grasp of the original article. :thumbsup:

As far as your case cooling goes, I'd say you will have plenty of air circulation for a video card design that doesn't exhaust the air out of the case. Basically you just want to be sure you are drawing in more air than you are "sucking" out. If I understand you correctly you are going to have 2x intake and 3x exhaust. I'd say to run the exhaust fans all on low with the intakes on medium. Or, if possible use larger intake fans (140mm maybe). Lian-Li, for example (they make great cases) would typically use 2x140mm in with 2x120mm out.

Didn't bother reading it in English but I usually don't trust automatic translation tools like google translate.

I plan on running all the NF-P12 at maximum speed seeing they are rated around 19dB at 1300RPM. The one on my cpu heatsink has been running at maximum for 3 years and I can't even heard it all if I'm not putting my ear close to it.

So basically, that would mean 2 x NF-P12 1300RPM for intake, one NF-P12 in the back for exhaust and 2 Antec "TwoCool" running at low on the two top exhaust ports.

The PSU isn't taking its air from the case so the only real exhaust would be coming from those 3 fans and from the video card. It should probably balance things out. And I don't think it could be worst than my 900 which as 2x 120mm for intake, 1x 120mm and 1x 200mm (huge) fans for the exhaust, the PSU taking its air inside and the video card(5870) also serving as an exhaust point.

Sadly, 140 mm fans are out of the question as the P280 only uses 120 mm fans.

 

[Le Québécois]

I'd also just like to elaborate a bit on why I think the DD isn't a very good card. From the outside, it looks like a custom card designed for overclocking, but looking at how it behaves, it seems it's a card designed to be just a bit better than the reference, and sell because of that. Evidence of that is that the PCB is the reference one, so really the only action taken is to swap the cooler. A card cannot really be meant a good overclocker without a custom PCB. Granted, it's not sold as the "omg ultra OC card", but then it shouldn't be bought with that in mind. The hardware.fr review is proof that the goal here was to offer an alternative that's perhaps a little better at near-to-stock clocks. That, along with the fact that there's a premium to pay to get it, is what makes it a poor card in my opinion.

So if I understand you properly, it's not that bad of a choice if I don't plan on doing some crazy overclocking but it's not the best design around either.

Any brand or model I should look for if I were to wait a little bit longer for custom design 7970? I already know about the PowerColor one (not a big PowerColor fan, bad experience with customer support in the past with them) and the Gigabyte one.

Btw, the price premium is not taken into account here since the card is going to be a gift from a friend I helped out a couple of times with his business. For him, 50$ more or less doesn't matters.

 

[Quantos]

So if I understand you properly, it's not that bad of a choice if I don't plan on doing some crazy overclocking but it's not the best design around either.

Any brand or model I should look for if I were to wait a little bit longer for custom design 7970? I already know about the PowerColor one (not a big PowerColor fan, bad experience with customer support in the past with them) and the Gigabyte one.

Btw, the price premium is not taken into account here since the card is going to be a gift from a friend I helped out a couple of times with his business. For him, 50$ more or less doesn't matters.

Well I'd say it's a bad choice considering that for a 50$ premium; basically the only thing it does better than the reference is that it's a bit less noisy. That seems to be the only thing you gain from this card. However, you lose in case temperature (which I've said isn't THAT important for a few degrees, but still), and it's more expensive. It totally depends on what's important to you, but personally, I don't see a great deal here.

If we ignore completely the price, and just take into account the fact it's a bit less noisy... I guess it's an "okay" choice? I still wouldn't buy it, though. I don't see it as good enough.

My reasoning is the following. This GPU is great. It's a great chip with a ton of overclocking potential... with the reference PCB and cooler. However, in its reference form, it's a bit annoying, as of course not all chips are equal, and some people have trouble overclocking the card as they'd wish. Also, it's noisy at higher overclock and voltage. Keeping this in mind, my question to you is this: why not wait for a better custom card to come out? Especially if you don't care about the money, you've got a lot to gain and nothing to lose. The one thing you would gain from the XFX DD, a quieter cooler at low/no overclock, is going to be available from the real custom cards (odds are it'll be ever quieter). Also, should you want to overclock the card, it will only be easier and better. It would be a shame not to overclock a GPU that begs for it, by the way! ^_^

En bref, fais comme moi et attends que les "vraies" 7970 arrivent! :biggrin:

 

[Carmen813]

I dunno about that card from what some people have been saying about the VRM's overheating. Is there a reason you don't want a reference card? I have only seen maybe two posts where people tried to OC the BE and I think both times it would only clock to around 1100. I think if you want a non ref card there should be some better ones on the way later this month.

A person on hardocp took readings with an infrared gun through the back of the PCB and found temps to be very cool on the VRMs under load, so I'm not sure the verdict has fully been made on the coolers capabilities.

 

[Porter_]

A person on hardocp took readings with an infrared gun through the back of the PCB and found temps to be very cool on the VRMs under load, so I'm not sure the verdict has fully been made on the coolers capabilities.

yep that's me. i guess thermal imaging (like hardware.fr performed) reads thermal levels at a deeper level of the PCB than the surface temps i took with an IR gun, so not exactly apples to apples. anyway here is my original post:

i grabbed an IR gun from work and measured the VRM temps on my XFX 7970 BEDD. i did this at the card's stock settings with overdrive disabled. my case has a side fan and i pulled the side panel off and set it about 12" from the card, still pushing air in that general direction.

case with side panel removed:

IR gun:

Idle at Desktop
Core temp: 54 C (reported by CCC)
VRM temp: 48 C (measured)

STALKER CoP benchmark, 4th run
Max Core temp: 79 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 78 C (measured)

Metro 2033 benchmark, 6th run
Max Core temp: 77 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 76 C (measured)

3DMark11, standard settings free edition
Max Core temp: 73 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 67 C (measured)

Furmark, 10 minutes
Max Core temp: 86 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 89 C (measured)

 

[Le Québécois]

En bref, fais comme moi et attends que les "vraies" 7970 arrivent!

C'est ce que je vais faire si mon acheteur est assez patient.

 

[Le Québécois]

yep that's me. i guess thermal imaging (like hardware.fr performed) reads thermal levels at a deeper level of the PCB than the surface temps i took with an IR gun, so not exactly apples to apples. anyway here is my original post:

i grabbed an IR gun from work and measured the VRM temps on my XFX 7970 BEDD. i did this at the card's stock settings with overdrive disabled. my case has a side fan and i pulled the side panel off and set it about 12" from the card, still pushing air in that general direction.

case with side panel removed:

IR gun:

Idle at Desktop
Core temp: 54 C (reported by CCC)
VRM temp: 48 C (measured)

STALKER CoP benchmark, 4th run
Max Core temp: 79 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 78 C (measured)

Metro 2033 benchmark, 6th run
Max Core temp: 77 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 76 C (measured)

3DMark11, standard settings free edition
Max Core temp: 73 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 67 C (measured)

Furmark, 10 minutes
Max Core temp: 86 C (reported by CCC)
Max VRM temp: 89 C (measured)

Thank you for taking the time to re-post all this. I'll take that into account too.