xbox360: HD gaming?

[LOUISSSSS]

Want to get something cleared up:

is "High Definition" just a resolution settings?

so when i'm playing games on a XBOX360, they are DVD discs inserted into a DVD player and the console system upconverts the default DVD (640 x480) resolution to "High Definition" 720 or 1080i/p

can someone educate me?

PC Gaming---->Consoles -PC Gaming Mod Oakenfold

 

[Eeezee]

Wrong forum - this is PC gaming, you're looking for console gaming.

Coincidentally, did you know that Halo 3 is technically not HD since its resolution is 1152x640? It's true!

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
Want to get something cleared up:

is "High Definition" just a resolution settings?

so when i'm playing games on a XBOX360, they are DVD discs inserted into a DVD player and the console system upconverts the default DVD (640 x480) resolution to "High Definition" 720 or 1080i/p

can someone educate me?

PC Gaming---->Consoles -PC Gaming Mod Oakenfold

there is so much wrong with what you said I don't even know where to start correcting it.

But I'll try:

HD is a resolution of 720 lines of vertical resolution or higher. There is no "upconverting" taking place when you play a 360 game. It is just like a computer and is out putting a resolution.

Standard DVD's are indeed 640x480. But it has nothing to do with games. Games are either run at a resolution or not.

Now if you have a stardard def TV then yes, it will be 640x480. For both gaming and dvd's.

 

[DaveSimmons]

LOUISSSSS, a DVD is a data storage medium. You can write a few minutes of 16,000 x 9,000 resolution video to a data file on one if you want, or copies of music CDs, or transcripts of threads from AnandTech. Data.

None of that will play back in a regular DVD player of course, because that player expects certain data formats, such as a standard for pre-rendered 480i video.

That has nothing to do with the game data stored for PS2, wii, 360. They all read software programs from a data DVD and generate images "on the fly" by running the programs, just like your PC does.

It's the video card in the game console that sets how high resolutions can go, and it's the software running for a game that decides what resolution is actually used (typically 720p for the 360 and PS3, with a few at 1080p).

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
LOUISSSSS, a DVD is a data storage medium. You can write a few minutes of 16,000 x 9,000 resolution video to a data file on one if you want, or copies of music CDs, or transcripts of threads from AnandTech. Data.

None of that will play back in a regular DVD player of course, because that player expects certain data formats, such as a standard for pre-rendered 480i video.

That has nothing to do with the game data stored for PS2, wii, 360. They all read software programs from a data DVD and generate images "on the fly" by running the programs, just like your PC does.

It's the video card in the game console that sets how high resolutions can go, and it's the software running for a game that decides what resolution is actually used (typically 720p for the 360 and PS3, with a few at 1080p).

And the 360 won't upscale unless it's plugged in with the newer HDMI or the older VGA cables.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Originally posted by: potato28

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
LOUISSSSS, a DVD is a data storage medium. You can write a few minutes of 16,000 x 9,000 resolution video to a data file on one if you want, or copies of music CDs, or transcripts of threads from AnandTech. Data.

None of that will play back in a regular DVD player of course, because that player expects certain data formats, such as a standard for pre-rendered 480i video.

That has nothing to do with the game data stored for PS2, wii, 360. They all read software programs from a data DVD and generate images "on the fly" by running the programs, just like your PC does.

It's the video card in the game console that sets how high resolutions can go, and it's the software running for a game that decides what resolution is actually used (typically 720p for the 360 and PS3, with a few at 1080p).

And the 360 won't upscale unless it's plugged in with the newer HDMI or the older VGA cables.

Games will output 1080p over component if your TV will accept it.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian

Originally posted by: potato28

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
LOUISSSSS, a DVD is a data storage medium. You can write a few minutes of 16,000 x 9,000 resolution video to a data file on one if you want, or copies of music CDs, or transcripts of threads from AnandTech. Data.

None of that will play back in a regular DVD player of course, because that player expects certain data formats, such as a standard for pre-rendered 480i video.

That has nothing to do with the game data stored for PS2, wii, 360. They all read software programs from a data DVD and generate images "on the fly" by running the programs, just like your PC does.

It's the video card in the game console that sets how high resolutions can go, and it's the software running for a game that decides what resolution is actually used (typically 720p for the 360 and PS3, with a few at 1080p).

And the 360 won't upscale unless it's plugged in with the newer HDMI or the older VGA cables.

Games will output 1080p over component if your TV will accept it.

The keyword is upscale. DVDs do not upscale over component. Games will play at 1080p, but they aren't upscaled.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

thanks for the enlightenment. i always thought that since xbox360 = DVD drive = dvd discs = DVD resolution of 480. i now understand that it still uses the DVD's and they can play games at up to 1080p native resolution if u have a 1080p LCD, which i do.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: ObscureCaucasian

Originally posted by: potato28

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
LOUISSSSS, a DVD is a data storage medium. You can write a few minutes of 16,000 x 9,000 resolution video to a data file on one if you want, or copies of music CDs, or transcripts of threads from AnandTech. Data.

None of that will play back in a regular DVD player of course, because that player expects certain data formats, such as a standard for pre-rendered 480i video.

That has nothing to do with the game data stored for PS2, wii, 360. They all read software programs from a data DVD and generate images "on the fly" by running the programs, just like your PC does.

It's the video card in the game console that sets how high resolutions can go, and it's the software running for a game that decides what resolution is actually used (typically 720p for the 360 and PS3, with a few at 1080p).

And the 360 won't upscale unless it's plugged in with the newer HDMI or the older VGA cables.

Games will output 1080p over component if your TV will accept it.

The keyword is upscale. DVDs do not upscale over component. Games will play at 1080p, but they aren't upscaled.

Wrong. Most games that are running at 1080p are indeed upscaled to that resolution. There are very few PS3 and 360 games that actually render at 1080p resolution.

The reason that DVDs don't upscale over component is because of the CSS Consortium's rules. You are allowed to upscale over VGA since it's considered a computer interface by those rules, and not a home AV interface.

What exactly is "HD" is a good debate. There's a grey area between 480p (EDTV) and 720p (HDTV). Where one starts and the other ends is anyone's guess.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: erwos

Wrong. Most games that are running at 1080p are indeed upscaled to that resolution. There are very few PS3 and 360 games that actually render at 1080p resolution.

The reason that DVDs don't upscale over component is because of the CSS Consortium's rules. You are allowed to upscale over VGA since it's considered a computer interface by those rules, and not a home AV interface.

What exactly is "HD" is a good debate. There's a grey area between 480p (EDTV) and 720p (HDTV). Where one starts and the other ends is anyone's guess.

I have to agree with this somewhat. Even Halo 3 isn't true 1080p, but it still looks damn good which kind of excites me to be honest. I figure if Halo 3 and games at that graphics level look as good as they do on my tv then I cannot wait till that time comes where all games are a solid 1080p quality. *drools*

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: erwos

Wrong. Most games that are running at 1080p are indeed upscaled to that resolution. There are very few PS3 and 360 games that actually render at 1080p resolution.

The reason that DVDs don't upscale over component is because of the CSS Consortium's rules. You are allowed to upscale over VGA since it's considered a computer interface by those rules, and not a home AV interface.

What exactly is "HD" is a good debate. There's a grey area between 480p (EDTV) and 720p (HDTV). Where one starts and the other ends is anyone's guess.

I have to agree with this somewhat. Even Halo 3 isn't true 1080p, but it still looks damn good which kind of excites me to be honest. I figure if Halo 3 and games at that graphics level look as good as they do on my tv then I cannot wait till that time comes where all games are a solid 1080p quality. *drools*

Halo 3 isn't even 720p. It runs at 1152×640.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: erwos

Wrong. Most games that are running at 1080p are indeed upscaled to that resolution. There are very few PS3 and 360 games that actually render at 1080p resolution.

The reason that DVDs don't upscale over component is because of the CSS Consortium's rules. You are allowed to upscale over VGA since it's considered a computer interface by those rules, and not a home AV interface.

What exactly is "HD" is a good debate. There's a grey area between 480p (EDTV) and 720p (HDTV). Where one starts and the other ends is anyone's guess.

I have to agree with this somewhat. Even Halo 3 isn't true 1080p, but it still looks damn good which kind of excites me to be honest. I figure if Halo 3 and games at that graphics level look as good as they do on my tv then I cannot wait till that time comes where all games are a solid 1080p quality. *drools*

Halo 3 isn't even 720p. It runs at 1152×640.

Hmmm. I really am not an HD expert yet. I am curious as to why the quality of Halo 3 is ridiculously better than my 720p HD shows though. I realize we are talking a video game vs reality on film here but the difference is so huge that I question Halo 3 being less than 720p. If that is true, why does it look so much better than some of my shows?

 

[Drekce]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

What exactly is "HD" is a good debate. There's a grey area between 480p (EDTV) and 720p (HDTV). Where one starts and the other ends is anyone's guess.

There is no debate...to be HD it MUST be 720P or 1080i/p. I guess some TVs support resolutions slightly higher than 720p, so those would still be considered HD. EDTVs (480P) are most certainly not HD. I new a few people who were duped into buying those a couple of years ago.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Drekce
There is no debate...to be HD it MUST be 720P or 1080i/p.

Well, says you, anyways. It's not like there's some sort of standard that defines a minimum resolution for something to be called "high-def". I lean towards using it to mean "better than 480p", but I'm aware that's just my own opinion.

 

[Rage187]

From the wiki

High Definition usually refers to 720 vertical lines of video format resolution or more.

Pixel Resolution (W×H) Video Format Supported Pixels (Advertised Megapixels) Aspect Ratio (X:Y) Description
Image Pixel

1024×768 HD Ready 786,432 (0.8) 16:9 4:3 Typically a computer resolution XGA; also exists as a standardized "HD-Ready" TV size on the Plasma display with non-square pixels.

1248×702 720p Clean Aperture 876,096 (0.9) 16:9 1:1 Used for 750-line video with raster artifact/overscan compensation, as defined in SMPTE 296M.

1280×720 720p 921,600 (0.9) 16:9 1:1 Typically a computer resolution WXGA, also used for 750-line video, as defined in SMPTE 296M, ATSC A/53, ITU-R BT.1543, Digital television, DLP, LCD and LCOS projection HDTV displays.

1366×768 720p/1080i, HD Ready 1080p 1,049,088 (1.0) 683:384
(Approx 16:9) 1:1
Approx Typically a TV resolution WXGA; also exists as a standardized "HD-Ready" TV size. HDTV common pixel resolution, that used on LCD HDTV displays.

1024×1080 HD Ready 1080p 1,105,920 (1.1) 128:135
(Approx 4:3) 15:8 Non-standardized "HD-Ready" TV size. Used on HDTV Plasma display.

1280×1080 HD Ready 1080p 1,382,400 (1.4) 32:27
(Approx 16:9) 3:2 Non-standardized "HD-Ready" TV size. Used on HDTV Plasma display.

1440×1080 HDCAM/HDV 1080i 1,555,200 (1.6) 4:3 4:3:1 Used for anamorphic 1152-line video in the HDCAM and HDV formats introduced by Sony and defined (also as a luminance subsampling matrix) in SMPTE D11.

1888×1062 1080p Clean Aperture 2,001,280 (2.0) 16:9 1:1 Used for 1152-line video with raster artifact/overscan compensation, as defined in SMPTE 274M.

1920×1080 1080i/1080p, HD Ready 1080p, Full HD 2,073,600 (2.1) 16:9 1:1 Used for 1152-line video, as defined in SMPTE 274M, ATSC A/53, ITU-R BT.709. HDTV common pixel resolution, that used on LCD HDTV displays.

3840×2160 2160p 8,294,400 (8.3) 16:9 1:1 Quad HDTV, (there is no HD Ready 2160p Quad HDTV format).

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Rage187
From the wiki

High Definition usually refers to 720 vertical lines of video format resolution or more.

Pixel Resolution (W×H) Video Format Supported Pixels (Advertised Megapixels) Aspect Ratio (X:Y) Description
Image Pixel

1024×768 HD Ready 786,432 (0.8) 16:9 4:3 Typically a computer resolution XGA; also exists as a standardized "HD-Ready" TV size on the Plasma display with non-square pixels.

1248×702 720p Clean Aperture 876,096 (0.9) 16:9 1:1 Used for 750-line video with raster artifact/overscan compensation, as defined in SMPTE 296M.

1280×720 720p 921,600 (0.9) 16:9 1:1 Typically a computer resolution WXGA, also used for 750-line video, as defined in SMPTE 296M, ATSC A/53, ITU-R BT.1543, Digital television, DLP, LCD and LCOS projection HDTV displays.

1366×768 720p/1080i, HD Ready 1080p 1,049,088 (1.0) 683:384
(Approx 16:9) 1:1
Approx Typically a TV resolution WXGA; also exists as a standardized "HD-Ready" TV size. HDTV common pixel resolution, that used on LCD HDTV displays.

1024×1080 HD Ready 1080p 1,105,920 (1.1) 128:135
(Approx 4:3) 15:8 Non-standardized "HD-Ready" TV size. Used on HDTV Plasma display.

1280×1080 HD Ready 1080p 1,382,400 (1.4) 32:27
(Approx 16:9) 3:2 Non-standardized "HD-Ready" TV size. Used on HDTV Plasma display.

1440×1080 HDCAM/HDV 1080i 1,555,200 (1.6) 4:3 4:3:1 Used for anamorphic 1152-line video in the HDCAM and HDV formats introduced by Sony and defined (also as a luminance subsampling matrix) in SMPTE D11.

1888×1062 1080p Clean Aperture 2,001,280 (2.0) 16:9 1:1 Used for 1152-line video with raster artifact/overscan compensation, as defined in SMPTE 274M.

1920×1080 1080i/1080p, HD Ready 1080p, Full HD 2,073,600 (2.1) 16:9 1:1 Used for 1152-line video, as defined in SMPTE 274M, ATSC A/53, ITU-R BT.709. HDTV common pixel resolution, that used on LCD HDTV displays.

3840×2160 2160p 8,294,400 (8.3) 16:9 1:1 Quad HDTV, (there is no HD Ready 2160p Quad HDTV format).

I do not question these numbers but I still am confused as to why Halo 3 looks so good on my TV versus the HD shows which are supposed to be 720p. Is it just that Halo 3 running at 1152×640 is not correct?

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I do not question these numbers but I still am confused as to why Halo 3 looks so good on my TV versus the HD shows which are supposed to be 720p. Is it just that Halo 3 running at 1152×640 is not correct?

Honestly, no one here is going to be able to explain why you, personally, think Halo 3 looks so much better than an HD TV show.

I can only suggest that there is much more to image quality than resolution. It's entirely possible to have a 64x48 image look "better" than a 1920x1080 image. The source material, framerate, and many other factors matter an awful lot.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I do not question these numbers but I still am confused as to why Halo 3 looks so good on my TV versus the HD shows which are supposed to be 720p. Is it just that Halo 3 running at 1152×640 is not correct?

Honestly, no one here is going to be able to explain why you, personally, think Halo 3 looks so much better than an HD TV show.

I can only suggest that there is much more to image quality than resolution. It's entirely possible to have a 64x48 image look "better" than a 1920x1080 image. The source material, framerate, and many other factors matter an awful lot.

Those 80 lines were sacrificed to get a solid framerate with features like HDR lighting. Things like 80 lines won't make a huge difference in the overall image, but the PQ will.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I do not question these numbers but I still am confused as to why Halo 3 looks so good on my TV versus the HD shows which are supposed to be 720p. Is it just that Halo 3 running at 1152×640 is not correct?

Honestly, no one here is going to be able to explain why you, personally, think Halo 3 looks so much better than an HD TV show.

I can only suggest that there is much more to image quality than resolution. It's entirely possible to have a 64x48 image look "better" than a 1920x1080 image. The source material, framerate, and many other factors matter an awful lot.

I guess it has to do with something regarding the source material. My TV is a top notch model and it's configured decently well. I say "descently" because I intend to purchase a calibration disk to help fine tune it. You are probably right in the sense that I am asking this question in the wrong place though.

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I guess it has to do with something regarding the source material. My TV is a top notch model and it's configured decently well. I say "descently" because I intend to purchase a calibration disk to help fine tune it. You are probably right in the sense that I am asking this question in the wrong place though.

When I said "no one here," I really just meant that anyone outside of your own brain won't be able to tell you why you perceive one picture to be better than another because "better" is so highly subjective. Some people just prefer computer generated images over real life, perhaps you're one of them?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I guess it has to do with something regarding the source material. My TV is a top notch model and it's configured decently well. I say "descently" because I intend to purchase a calibration disk to help fine tune it. You are probably right in the sense that I am asking this question in the wrong place though.

When I said "no one here," I really just meant that anyone outside of your own brain won't be able to tell you why you perceive one picture to be better than another because "better" is so highly subjective. Some people just prefer computer generated images over real life, perhaps you're one of them?

Perhaps I should clarify what I mean by "better" then. In general, the following is worse on my 720p programs as opposed to Halo 3:

1. Musk. I see much more distortion and grain in the programs. It's not terrible mind you but it is noticeably worse.

2. Smoother frames. Watching some vehicles in Halo fly by as opposed to some cars in some of my programs shows me that Halo 3 just looks smoother.

3. Colors and lighting. Better in Halo 3 but this could largely be due to the fact that Halo is just a game where lighting is more controlled and perfected. I don't let this part bother me nearly as much for that reason.

4. Just in general, Halo 3 makes me feel like I can put my hand through the TV screen and touch things. I do not get this same impression at all with 720p programs. However, I do get this same impression if something like a Blu Ray disk is being played at 1080p. This is one of the primary reasons I don't understand why Halo 3 seems so much better than the 720p programs even though the claim is that Halo's quality should be less than those programs.


I'm not certain if anyone has experienced the same thing as me or has suggestions on what I could do to improve the quality of my HDTV programs but this is much more detailed than my previous discussion about it. I do plan to purchase a calibration disk from BB or something so maybe that will help *shrug*.

 

[Drekce]

Wow, if you think Halo 3 has great "HD" graphics you really need to play COD4.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Drekce
Wow, if you think Halo 3 has great "HD" graphics you really need to play COD4.

And COD4's graphics are even lower resolution than Halo 3. Halo 3 is 1152x640, CoD4 is 1024x600. Not a huge difference, but CoD 4 has 1/6 fewer pixels than Halo 3. It's not about the quantity of pixels, it's all about how you use them.

 

[bigpow]

IMO, HD gaming is not just about original resolution of the games being played nor the resolution of your HDTV.
It's a combination of BOTH. I could care less for the original resolution of a game, as long as it look crisp, good & without any jaggies on my TV - it's HD gaming enough for me.
In this sense, I'd say both Xbox 360 and PS3 look amazingly good (regardless of what the original game resolution), as well as gaming via PC (set to match the resolution). Wii, however, IS NOT!

It's about a new gaming experience, with higher resolution than it was before. That should allow more informations on the display, to add details/immersion to the games.
Don't get confused with terms, resolutions, platforms, etc. We have enough fanboys (platforms, games, resolutions) as it is.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Rage187
From the wiki

Wikipedia is not an authoritative source or a standard.

In any event, resolution isn't everything when it comes to picture quality. At a certain point, you're probably better off with higher-quality 640p source material than lower-quality 720p source material.