Xbox Series X

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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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IMO there won't be a slim Series X model. The slim model is the Series S.
Not saying I expect a $300 Series X Slim or anything, Microsoft already said the reason they put out the $300 Series S was because they don't anticipate node shrinks to 5nm nor 3nm bringing cost per transistor down enough to ever do a cheap Series X. But even if cost per transistor is flat on a new node they'd probably still do a new revision on smaller lithography just to spend less on power supply, cooling, case, and warranty service, since the lower power consumption being on smaller lithography brings would likely make the new revision more reliable.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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Not saying I expect a $300 Series X Slim or anything, Microsoft already said the reason they put out the $300 Series S was because they don't anticipate node shrinks to 5nm nor 3nm bringing cost per transistor down enough to ever do a cheap Series X. But even if cost per transistor is flat on a new node they'd probably still do a new revision on smaller lithography just to spend less on power supply, cooling, case, and warranty service, since the lower power consumption being on smaller lithography brings would likely make the new revision more reliable.
That depends if they also do a GPU and CPU refresh and need to beef up the power supply or keep the cooling system as robust as possible within reason. Not sure what they may do if that happens.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
11,268
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Not saying I expect a $300 Series X Slim or anything, Microsoft already said the reason they put out the $300 Series S was because they don't anticipate node shrinks to 5nm nor 3nm bringing cost per transistor down enough to ever do a cheap Series X. But even if cost per transistor is flat on a new node they'd probably still do a new revision on smaller lithography just to spend less on power supply, cooling, case, and warranty service, since the lower power consumption being on smaller lithography brings would likely make the new revision more reliable.
Not going to be worth it. A faster more expensive Series console is still possible but I'm beginning to think that it could even get cancelled since TSMC is just too popular.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
4,289
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Not going to be worth it. A faster more expensive Series console is still possible but I'm beginning to think that it could even get cancelled since TSMC is just too popular.
There will almost certainly be a slim model because it'll be cheaper to make. Don't really care about a more powerful XBox than Series X, that system should be plenty for 1440p60 and 1800p60.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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There will almost certainly be a slim model because it'll be cheaper to make. Don't really care about a more powerful XBox than Series X, that system should be plenty for 1440p60 and 1800p60.
Except they need to have better ray tracing performance. The most game changing graphics option is essentially unusable on the hardware and that is disappointing.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Except they need to have better ray tracing performance. The most game changing graphics option is essentially unusable on the hardware and that is disappointing.
That ship has sailed. I think MS will do (or at least planning to) make a Pro model to keep the hardcore fans happy but it's probally going to be another 7-8 years before they quit the Series S.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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That ship has sailed. I think MS will do (or at least planning to) make a Pro model to keep the hardcore fans happy but it's probally going to be another 7-8 years before they quit the Series S.
Meh we got pro models last gen because 4k TVs got cheap in the middle of the gen and because the original consoles had weak gpus. Don't see 8k becoming mainstream in the next couple of years and the current gen consoles launched with awesome gpus. I wouldn't hold me breath for pro models coming again.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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I will buy one of these when the prices relax even more. Looking forward to some of my old library of games with better visuals. Emulation is not where it needs to be for 360 yet. For example: Gears 2 and Red dead Redemption are not good enough experiences. Both will be much better on a series X from what I've seen. I have bought some titles for PC that will work on it, and I have game pass.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
11,268
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Meh we got pro models last gen because 4k TVs got cheap in the middle of the gen and because the original consoles had weak gpus. Don't see 8k becoming mainstream in the next couple of years and the current gen consoles launched with awesome gpus. I wouldn't hold me breath for pro models coming again.
Once (If?) they start making next gen detail games for the Series X it's gonna be tough for it to do native 4k60. Going to need more power.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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Once (If?) they start making next gen detail games for the Series X it's gonna be tough for it to do native 4k60. Going to need more power.
They're not going to run games at native 4k, easy to fake it at 1440p or 1800p or with dynamic resolutions. Don't see people excited over a $900 XBox just to run 4k natively.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
4,289
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I will buy one of these when the prices relax even more. Looking forward to some of my old library of games with better visuals. Emulation is not where it needs to be for 360 yet. For example: Gears 2 and Red dead Redemption are not good enough experiences. Both will be much better on a series X from what I've seen. I have bought some titles for PC that will work on it, and I have game pass.
Microsoft claims they made the Series S because there will never be a cheap Series X with cost per transistor stagnating on nodes after 7nm. Maybe not a given that we'll ever see cheap full fat consoles.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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That ship has sailed. I think MS will do (or at least planning to) make a Pro model to keep the hardcore fans happy but it's probally going to be another 7-8 years before they quit the Series S.
It hasn’t if AMD has a chipset that handles it much better than current RDNA chips. They could release a Pro or a black edition or whatever they want to call it with higher performance
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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They're not going to run games at native 4k, easy to fake it at 1440p or 1800p or with dynamic resolutions. Don't see people excited over a $900 XBox just to run 4k natively.
People were clamoring for $1500 nvidia GPUs for a handful of titles lol.

Now I don’t think consoles will ever be that cost but $600 or so for an elite edition with superior graphics performance would probably sell easily. Think about it. Play all the games that run 4K/30 with graphic fidelity mode at 4K/60 day one. Easy sell for hardcore gamers
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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People were clamoring for $1500 nvidia GPUs for a handful of titles lol.
That's PC Master Race, not console buyers.

Now I don’t think consoles will ever be that cost but $600 or so for an elite edition with superior graphics performance would probably sell easily. Think about it. Play all the games that run 4K/30 with graphic fidelity mode at 4K/60 day one. Easy sell for hardcore gamers
Can't see that going for $600 when Series X is $500 and not likely to drop much in price, if at all.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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Microsoft claims they made the Series S because there will never be a cheap Series X with cost per transistor stagnating on nodes after 7nm. Maybe not a given that we'll ever see cheap full fat consoles.
More interested in the refurb market adjusting accordingly. If you see a deal, hook me up. :beercheers:
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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No way I'd throw away having a warranty for 5-10% off.
Oh yeah? well there's no way I am paying retail for a console I will use a day or 2 at a time, in between it being a dust collector. :p Refurbs usually have 6-12 month warranty. If I can't get the price I want, I'll buy used from here or other places I frequent with trustworthy folks. I am not in a hurry.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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The games are still going to be designed around the Series S at best.
That’s not how it works, at all.

Games are developed for the series x and scaled DOWN. Nothing is developed for the series s, ever. Microsoft confirmed this a long time ago.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
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That’s not how it works, at all.

Games are developed for the series x and scaled DOWN. Nothing is developed for the series s, ever. Microsoft confirmed this a long time ago.
A lot of studios are still doing multiplatform XBox games, which makes me think that the XBox One S (not the series S) is still the minimum performance target.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
11,268
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That’s not how it works, at all.

Games are developed for the series x and scaled DOWN. Nothing is developed for the series s, ever. Microsoft confirmed this a long time ago.
I doubt it would change much. Even once MS quits the One, which might still take awhile, every game is going to need to run at an acceptable frame rate and resolution on the S. And that's not going to change for a very long time. Devs aren't going to bother to do much beyond lowering the resolution and maybe only 30 fps.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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I doubt it would change much. Even once MS quits the One, which might still take awhile, every game is going to need to run at an acceptable frame rate and resolution on the S. And that's not going to change for a very long time. Devs aren't going to bother to do much beyond lowering the resolution and maybe only 30 fps.
And they will because games are now scaling down on similar hardware with lower performance. Developer just needs to pick the resolution they feel is best.

Microsoft dev kits are not series s based either, they are series x. Everything starts from the highest performing platform and the tools allow developers to scale it to the s. Problem is you have to do more than just click a button for best results and I don’t know if a lot of developers care to do that little extra.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,736
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Regardless of them scaling back from the series X or not, the games have to be designed from the ground up to work on the lowest common denominator. That can have an effect on a lot more than just resolution/graphics.

I am ready for both Sony and MS to drop support for last gen hardware, but we know that isn't happening any time soon, especially on XSX. We already know God of War is a PS4 game too. Hopefully that is the last AAA title on Sony exclusive platforms (initially at least) that will support PS4. I hope we get a new Uncharted and TLOU game that is PS5 only and fully takes advantage of it's hardware being designed from the ground up for it.
 
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quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
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And they will because games are now scaling down on similar hardware with lower performance. Developer just needs to pick the resolution they feel is best.

Microsoft dev kits are not series s based either, they are series x. Everything starts from the highest performing platform and the tools allow developers to scale it to the s. Problem is you have to do more than just click a button for best results and I don’t know if a lot of developers care to do that little extra.
Techland already showed the issues with having 2 power SKUs for Xbox by releasing Dying Light 2 on series S at 30fps. After a month they did patch it to be 60fps. they mentioned that the issue was just time, they concentrated on the Series X/PS5/PC ports and just punted on the Series S.
 
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