Xbox One and Forza's Shameless Micro transactions

[Atomic Playboy]

Just saying that it would be super apparent that Manufacturer affinity still existed. I mean really apparent. It changed on how it works but its still there. More money instead of cheaper deals on parts. To me that means you didn't research it all. Only a curious glance at "complaints". That doesn't read as someone disappointed and dismayed that they will be passing on one of the games in their favorite franchise.

I read the article linked in the OP and summarized the complaints, which apparently were enough for Turn10 / Microsoft to issue a statement to the effect of changing the ingame economy. I didn't realize that the complaints were based on false information; I was under the impression that the person who wrote them had actually played the game. As far as passing on FM5, that's more to do with not wanting to shell out the money for an XBox One at this point; if it were on the 360 or someone gave me the Xbone, I'd buy it. But at this point, neither of the new systems are compelling enough for me to purchase, so I'll have to make do without FM5 for the time being.

 

[Topweasel]

I read the article linked in the OP and summarized the complaints, which apparently were enough for Turn10 / Microsoft to issue a statement to the effect of changing the ingame economy. I didn't realize that the complaints were based on false information; I was under the impression that the person who wrote them had actually played the game. As far as passing on FM5, that's more to do with not wanting to shell out the money for an XBox One at this point; if it were on the 360 or someone gave me the Xbone, I'd buy it. But at this point, neither of the new systems are compelling enough for me to purchase, so I'll have to make do without FM5 for the time being.

Then I don't know what your post was about. Turn 10 looking into changing the economy (which is probably based on the fact that one holiday weekend a week after release they had a half of sale in game) as a sign that they agreed they screwed up. But tweaking settings and smoothing out game play is one of the greatest parts of the last 8 years of gaming.

In Madden you don't have to worry about the rosters being wrong because a player got cut or traded a week after the game went gold. Or That the some combo move in Tekan is to op. I want Turn 10 to be able to assess that players are having a harder time making money then they originally projected and to smooth that out.

The rest is just opinion pieces. Games have to change and they changed some stuff that people loved and some they hated. Some of the roles are now reversed. This happens all the time. Some times they get more right for more people than they do other times. Better that then the same game with 200 more cars or 5 more tracks and new achievements.

 

[Wingznut]

Gran Turismo 6 Microtransaction Prices Surface

[quoteWhen microtransactions were originally announced, we included an image that offered some insight into the different cars you can buy. But how much will it cost you to buy the most expensive car in the game, the Jaguar XJ13 if you want to do it with real-world money?

Well, it costs 20 million credits. While you can always grind these the old-fashioned way (by playing the game), the speedy/expensive way will require two packs of 7 million credits, another couple of 2.5 million credit packs and a final pack of 1 million. That'll cost you a stonking £119.95.[/quote]

Perhaps at nearly $200, we can stop calling them microtransactions now?

But don't think I'm jumping on the bandwagon now... Of course purchasing with real money is completely optional.

 

[KaOTiK]

Gran Turismo 6 Microtransaction Prices Surface

When microtransactions were originally announced, we included an image that offered some insight into the different cars you can buy. But how much will it cost you to buy the most expensive car in the game, the Jaguar XJ13 if you want to do it with real-world money?

Well, it costs 20 million credits. While you can always grind these the old-fashioned way (by playing the game), the speedy/expensive way will require two packs of 7 million credits, another couple of 2.5 million credit packs and a final pack of 1 million. That'll cost you a stonking £119.95.

Perhaps at nearly $200, we can stop calling them microtransactions now?

But don't think I'm jumping on the bandwagon now... Of course purchasing with real money is completely optional.

I agree they shouldn't be called microtransactions after a certain point (that being one).

I do want to clarify one thing, because I think most wont even read much of it at all. While GT6 has added microtransactions (which is really shitty on its own), they have NOT altered the game economy in anyway from GT5. The car prices are the same as in GT5 and all the rewards and such are all the same as well. It is a subtle, but huge difference. They (Poly/Sony) are just adding a way to skip the content but have not changed the game in anyway to encourage using it. Personally I find it shitty still but at least acceptable since it doesn't change anything from how the game is/was designed. I do find it absurd though that people would buy a game and just pay to skip its content, I know people with less time etc etc, but you are just paying for cheat codes at this point pretty much

 

[purbeast0]

Gran Turismo 6 Microtransaction Prices Surface

[quoteWhen microtransactions were originally announced, we included an image that offered some insight into the different cars you can buy. But how much will it cost you to buy the most expensive car in the game, the Jaguar XJ13 if you want to do it with real-world money?

Well, it costs 20 million credits. While you can always grind these the old-fashioned way (by playing the game), the speedy/expensive way will require two packs of 7 million credits, another couple of 2.5 million credit packs and a final pack of 1 million. That'll cost you a stonking £119.95.

dont worry, people don't complain about this one anyways because it's on a sony product and not a microsoft one.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I agree they shouldn't be called microtransactions after a certain point (that being one).

I do want to clarify one thing, because I think most wont even read much of it at all. While GT6 has added microtransactions (which is really shitty on its own), they have NOT altered the game economy in anyway from GT5. The car prices are the same as in GT5 and all the rewards and such are all the same as well. It is a subtle, but huge difference. They (Poly/Sony) are just adding a way to skip the content but have not changed the game in anyway to encourage using it. Personally I find it shitty still but at least acceptable since it doesn't change anything from how the game is/was designed. I do find it absurd though that people would buy a game and just pay to skip its content, I know people with less time etc etc, but you are just paying for cheat codes at this point pretty much

This was pretty much my beef..and it wasn't just with Forza. It's pretty common now and just absurd. Maybe if I was 18 and didn't grow up with codes I wouldn't care but I'm oldskool

 

[Wingznut]

I do want to clarify one thing, because I think most wont even read much of it at all. While GT6 has added microtransactions (which is really shitty on its own), they have NOT altered the game economy in anyway from GT5. (

Well, until the game is released, we don't really know exactly how this is going to affect the game economy.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I do want to clarify one thing, because I think most wont even read much of it at all. While GT6 has added microtransactions (which is really shitty on its own), they have NOT altered the game economy in anyway from GT5. The car prices are the same as in GT5 and all the rewards and such are all the same as well. It is a subtle, but huge difference. They (Poly/Sony) are just adding a way to skip the content but have not changed the game in anyway to encourage using it.

Yeah, but the game economy in GT5 sucked compared to Forza 4. The prize cars were tied to the event you won, not the event you wanted to compete in next, so they had no bearing on progression. "Oh, you won a classic car race? Here's a classic car as a prize! Sure could've used this before you bought one to race this event. Now we'll give it to you just in time for you to not need it since your next series is a European hot hatch race. Better go buy one of those and upgrade it with the middling payout you just won!" And so you end up with endless grinding until you say "the hell with this" and win your Mazda Furai and use it to win every event in the game. It made no sense and was just irritating.

 

[Topweasel]

Keep in mind that they just gift people 3 million in creds. Or at least I got 3 million and the game is making you money while your playing it. The economy changed period, I don't see how making cars more expensive while increasing payouts on races (Manufacturers Affinity) and AFK racing (Drivatar collections) while paying you money to visit their website to redeem added bonus's, in anyway pushes you to purchase cars through token, the car packs are different, but those are capped at $60 if bought separately and while I love free stuff those types of DLC are not going away. Even those are completely subjective you don't have to get them and if you do get them you only need to get the ones that have the cars you want and as long as the car you want isn't one of the headliners you don't even need to get the whole pack.

The big thing Forza 5 did that hurts it is removing car prizes. But like I said earlier. You can't do that with 200 car selection. You almost end up gifting a third of the cars.

 

[KaOTiK]

Well, until the game is released, we don't really know exactly how this is going to affect the game economy.

A couple of reviewers that are/had played it made the comments about the economy not changing when I read about the other day.

Yeah, but the game economy in GT5 sucked compared to Forza 4. The prize cars were tied to the event you won, not the event you wanted to compete in next, so they had no bearing on progression. "Oh, you won a classic car race? Here's a classic car as a prize! Sure could've used this before you bought one to race this event. Now we'll give it to you just in time for you to not need it since your next series is a European hot hatch race. Better go buy one of those and upgrade it with the middling payout you just won!" And so you end up with endless grinding until you say "the hell with this" and win your Mazda Furai and use it to win every event in the game. It made no sense and was just irritating.

This has nothing to do with the in game economy and being tied with microtransactions. You don't like it? That is fine, but it hasn't changed from the previous GT and that is what I was pointing out.

 

[smackababy]

The big thing Forza 5 did that hurts it is removing car prizes. But like I said earlier. You can't do that with 200 car selection. You almost end up gifting a third of the cars.

They could have done a car every 10 levels until 50 and been just fine I think. That is only 5 cars, but you can just scale them so at level 50, you're getting a race car.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

The big thing Forza 5 did that hurts it is removing car prizes. But like I said earlier. You can't do that with 200 car selection. You almost end up gifting a third of the cars.

Why can't you do that with a 200 car selection? Racing games used to be set up so that you never bought anything, you just unlocked new cars for reaching new levels. Why is it a bad thing if the game gives you 25% of the total car list as you advance? It's a video game. Literally the only point is collecting cars and racing, so it kind of makes sense for the game to be set up as conveniently as possible to achieve those ends. Giving cars as rewards, especially as rewards that you can use to further advance, is a really good way to do that.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Why can't you do that with a 200 car selection? Racing games used to be set up so that you never bought anything, you just unlocked new cars for reaching new levels. Why is it a bad thing if the game gives you 25% of the total car list as you advance? It's a video game. Literally the only point is collecting cars and racing, so it kind of makes sense for the game to be set up as conveniently as possible to achieve those ends. Giving cars as rewards, especially as rewards that you can use to further advance, is a really good way to do that.

Because it's a circle and the point of this entire thread. It's no longer about just giving you a game that you can enjoy at your leisure that is a complete experience with an end. It's about giving you part of a game and making you want to spend more money on it to get more of it.

Some don't have issues with it, others do. The "you don't have to buy anything" statements are completely true, however today's "got to have everything now" mentality is definitely being considered when making these kind of design choices. I don't see how anyone can ignore that.

 

[American Gunner]

Selling you part of a game? I have my entire game. Sure, I can spend money on DLC, but I don't need too. I do think it's funny that MS is being villified for this, when they aren't the only one doing it. Like it's been mentioned GT6 will have the same system. Sure, you can still earn credits and buy cars, but it's the same in Forza. And MS has already said they are looking at this, so they are aware of people crying about it.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Some don't have issues with it, others do. The "you don't have to buy anything" statements are completely true, however today's "got to have everything now" mentality is definitely being considered when making these kind of design choices. I don't see how anyone can ignore that.

It is kind of insane to pay real world money for in-game credits to simply unlock areas of the game without playing far enough to reach them (and Forza and GT are hardly alone in this; Battlefield and Assassin's Creed have both gone to the "pay to unlock" model as well). Cheat codes used to be free; now they'll cost you $5 a pop. That's stupid, and it's hard to find a compelling argument in favor of them. "We don't want people unlocking stuff in multiplayer before they've earned it... unless they pay us real money, in which case, OK!" Balderdash.

Car packs and additional mission DLC actually add something to the game. Buying progress is ridiculous.

 

[smackababy]

It's about giving you part of a game and making you want to spend more money on it to get more of it.

This is not happening. You are clearly a troll or a moron if you actually believe this.


Do you complain about restaurants having additional items for sale other than the main courses? If you go to some place and buy the entree #7, is it not a complete meal because you can also, for an additional cost, purchase an appetizer and a dessert?


If you played any of the games you bitch about, you'd know you are completely wrong and your opinion is stupid. Go be entitled somewhere else.

 

[Topweasel]

Why can't you do that with a 200 car selection? Racing games used to be set up so that you never bought anything, you just unlocked new cars for reaching new levels. Why is it a bad thing if the game gives you 25% of the total car list as you advance? It's a video game. Literally the only point is collecting cars and racing, so it kind of makes sense for the game to be set up as conveniently as possible to achieve those ends. Giving cars as rewards, especially as rewards that you can use to further advance, is a really good way to do that.

No a games best interest it to get you to play it as long as possible so that when the new game comes out it's still fresh in your mind.

DLC just makes that easier because unlike the past they can plan ahead for incremental content releases, bring in more money which will help the company and the next games development, and allows them to control mindshare more during downtime between releases.

Because it's a circle and the point of this entire thread. It's no longer about just giving you a game that you can enjoy at your leisure that is a complete experience with an end. It's about giving you part of a game and making you want to spend more money on it to get more of it.

Some don't have issues with it, others do. The "you don't have to buy anything" statements are completely true, however today's "got to have everything now" mentality is definitely being considered when making these kind of design choices. I don't see how anyone can ignore that.

There is a complete experience with an end. Assuming you got a different car for each series that's still only like 75 cars. You don't even need the full 200 cars. The larger the car options the more likely a game is to include your favorites but 200 is more than enough to finish the game and you get more than enough from races, series, and rivals, with manufacturer bonus's and Avatar winnings to buy the 75 cars without reracing series. That's not including the 3 million we've been gifted.

The tokens are not needed if you have patience in racing inside the racing game. If you just want the cars and don't want to race. Or can't wait out the next series before buying your next dream car. That's what the tokens are for.

 

[Wingznut]

First off, let me clarify that I have never (and never plan to) spent real money to progress faster through a game.

However, if someone else would like to do that, it's not my place to criticize. It's their time, it's their money, it's their choice.

Perhaps they would really love to use the Jaguar XJ13, but they don't have the time to play for hours and hours to earn it in game. So be it, they have the choice. Doesn't hurt me any.

As long as it's optional, as long as it doesn't unbalance multiplayer, I don't care. And if it does change the game, then I don't buy the game. That's my choice.

 

[ronbo613]

A problem with the micro transactions is you never know how much a game is going to cost in the end. Sure, you can buy Forza and just play with what comes in the box, but you play this kind of game because you are a car enthusiast and it's natural to want more cars and tracks. Odds are you'll buy the DLC even if you can earn game credits to buy individual cars. I agree with the point that you should "earn your way" through the game, but having a bunch of hot new cars, probably because you could never do it in real life, is pretty fun. Of course, with Forza you can tune and paint, as well as race them.
One thing that is not mentioned often regarding micro transactions is the "transaction" part with Microsoft. I'm sure transactions go through the majority of the time, but if you should ever have a problem, you've got a real problem. I'm in the middle of a problem with a transaction through Xbox where I paid for something that I didn't get and Microsoft has pulled all kinds of questionable tactics to keep my money for something they did not deliver. I'm disputing the charge with my bank, they told me I should send a complaint to the state district attorney as well.
Forza is one of my favorite games, but no more Xbox and Microsoft for me. To be fair, I reckon Sony is just as bad, so it looks like back to PC gaming for me. On to the video cards!

 

[purbeast0]

First off, let me clarify that I have never (and never plan to) spent real money to progress faster through a game.

However, if someone else would like to do that, it's not my place to criticize. It's their time, it's their money, it's their choice.

Perhaps they would really love to use the Jaguar XJ13, but they don't have the time to play for hours and hours to earn it in game. So be it, they have the choice. Doesn't hurt me any.

As long as it's optional, as long as it doesn't unbalance multiplayer, I don't care. And if it does change the game, then I don't buy the game. That's my choice.

yeah i agree with this 100%. it's the whole "time = money" concept and nothing more. why people (in this thread and outside) bitch about having the option to spend time or money on unlocking cars simply baffles me.

i remember when tiger woods came out with this years back, where you could pay to get 100% stats, people bitched at that time too. makes no sense because you can do the same thing by playing the game.

 

[Midwayman]

However, if someone else would like to do that, it's not my place to criticize. It's their time, it's their money, it's their choice.

As long as it's optional, as long as it doesn't unbalance multiplayer, I don't care. And if it does change the game, then I don't buy the game. That's my choice.

If this were a f2p game I'd be inclined to agree. However you're paying to unlock content you've already paid for in this case. Doesn't bother me that people want to do it except that it gives the devs incentive to make the grind for unlocks so hard that you'll just relent and buy the cheat. I'm not a fan of the F2P grind for everything mode of gameplay and I hate to see it take over paid games as well.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

First off, let me clarify that I have never (and never plan to) spent real money to progress faster through a game.

However, if someone else would like to do that, it's not my place to criticize. It's their time, it's their money, it's their choice.

Perhaps they would really love to use the Jaguar XJ13, but they don't have the time to play for hours and hours to earn it in game. So be it, they have the choice. Doesn't hurt me any.

As long as it's optional, as long as it doesn't unbalance multiplayer, I don't care. And if it does change the game, then I don't buy the game. That's my choice.

Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A didn't cost anyone a dime and accomplished roughly the same thing. Unlocking things without earning them is basically cheating, not in a pejorative sense, but in the sense that you're unlocking portions of the game by means other than playing and advancing as intended. Paying real money to cheat in a single player game is insane. Paying real money to cheat in a multiplayer game is unfair to people who can't afford to spend the same amount. Either way, I'm opposed to developers doing away with traditional cheat codes in favor of "give us cash and you won't have to actually play the game we made." Sure, I'm not going to indulge, so it doesn't really affect me, but the fact that it exists at all and that people defend it as a business practice confuses the hell out of me. It's like getting The Phantom Menace on Blu-ray and trying to fast-forward to the lightsaber battle (because why else would you watch The Phantom Menace?) only to have the disc tell you, "I'm sorry, but we want you to experience this movie as the director intended, in its entirety; but for $5, we'll allow you to skip to any scene in the movie one time."

If you're going to throw cheat codes into your game, don't charge me real money to use them.

 

[ImpulsE69]

This is not happening. You are clearly a troll or a moron if you actually believe this.


Do you complain about restaurants having additional items for sale other than the main courses? If you go to some place and buy the entree #7, is it not a complete meal because you can also, for an additional cost, purchase an appetizer and a dessert?


If you played any of the games you bitch about, you'd know you are completely wrong and your opinion is stupid. Go be entitled somewhere else.

It's not? Really? Then why are they doing it? Do you not know how business works? Who's the moron? Go play your game noob. Leave the business side to people who actually know how it works.

Again you are personalizing the comments. People of this forum are not your "every day gamer" for the most part. Just because you or I may not buy into it, does not mean the majority don't. Get away from your "it don't affect me" little bubble you are in. These are games, not food items. Not even remotely a good analogy. While we're at it, let's make them have mandatory insurance on games, since you know, you have to do that with cars and that's an additional charge. Makes sense right? (and in case you can't read between the lines, no it makes no sense)


To address some of the other comments. I don't have issues with other people spending their money on it either. The larger concern is the give and inch take a mile aspect. Ok, so you are paying for "this" this time. The next time (as is how business works) is how can we make even more money? Well they paid for "this", so this time let's make them pay for "this too". Etc etc. Maybe saying "no end game" was the wrong way to put it. I don't think we are at that point just yet, but I can see it coming down the road.

Let's also make sure there is no confusion. We say "devs" but in reality, it's not the devs that ask/make these choices, it's their bosses. I have no doubt most devs are all about making the best game they can but are met with lots of walls.

 

[vshah]

If this were a f2p game I'd be inclined to agree. However you're paying to unlock content you've already paid for in this case. Doesn't bother me that people want to do it except that it gives the devs incentive to make the grind for unlocks so hard that you'll just relent and buy the cheat. I'm not a fan of the F2P grind for everything mode of gameplay and I hate to see it take over paid games as well.

except you haven't paid for it. you paid $60 in return for 200 cars and 14 tracks and the experience of racing them in order to earn in game credits to spend on cars.

and in forza's case, the "grind for unlocks" is not hard. on top of that, it is exceptionally enjoyable! not to mention they throw millions of credits your way every so often.

 

[American Gunner]

except you haven't paid for it. you paid $60 in return for 200 cars and 14 tracks and the experience of racing them in order to earn in game credits to spend on cars.

and in forza's case, the "grind for unlocks" is not hard. on top of that, it is exceptionally enjoyable! not to mention they throw millions of credits your way every so often.

Can we report people on here for being rational and seeing something the way it actually is? If so, you are going to be reported.