Xbox One and Forza's Shameless Micro transactions

[Midwayman]

There was a day when you bought the game and got EVERYTHING. The fact that this no longer exists pisses me off.

That's more a perception issue than anything. There were still extra cost expansions to many games. The change is that they are smaller and closer to release. I'm not sure why that gives some people such a sense of entitlement. Would you rather have less options or some to wait 6 months for new content? Would that make you feel better? Its just always such an emotional reaction rather than a logical one.

 

[smackababy]

My problem is people trying to say the game is geared toward forcing you to buy cars for RL money. There are a few extremely expensive cars in the game, yes. The Shelby Cobra Daytona is almost 3,000,000 and the '57 250 TR is just as expensive. But, guess what? A 250 TR sold last year for over 17 million dollars.

Every level gives you like 31k credits, and you get them very fast in the beginning (like you're level 4 or 5 after the first series), giving you a good 150k in addition to everything you earn racing. I have (at level 27 or 28) amassed two Lambos, a GTR, a TVR, the Ferrari GT car, a 355 TR, an Eclipse, an E30 M3, a couple hatches, and a couple other cars. All of this was purchased without real money. I could have purchased a much more expensive car (the Ferrari race car cost like 700k), but I chose not to.

 

[smackababy]

That's more a perception issue than anything. There were still extra cost expansions to many games. The change is that they are smaller and closer to release. I'm not sure why that gives some people such a sense of entitlement. Would you rather have less options or some to wait 6 months for new content? Would that make you feel better? Its just always such an emotional reaction rather than a logical one.

No, they'd rather pay $60 for the content that we already get and then wait another 2 years for a new game. That way, they get the entire game and not get nickle and dimed.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

That's more a perception issue than anything. There were still extra cost expansions to many games. The change is that they are smaller and closer to release. I'm not sure why that gives some people such a sense of entitlement. Would you rather have less options or some to wait 6 months for new content? Would that make you feel better? Its just always such an emotional reaction rather than a logical one.

My Atari, NES, SNES, etc had none of this crap. And today, Forza is likely to make billions as is. They really need to screw consumers over this badly? This is like going to a movie theater and buying a ticket. And the movie is in black and white. You leave the theater to go to the ticket stand to find out you canupgrade to color for $2. No, I EXPECTED COLOR TO BEGIN WITH!

 

[cmdrdredd]

My Atari, NES, SNES, etc had none of this crap. And today, Forza is likely to make billions as is. They really need to screw consumers over this badly? This is like going to a movie theater and buying a ticket. And the movie is in black and white. You leave the theater to go to the ticket stand to find out you canupgrade to color for $2. No, I EXPECTED COLOR TO BEGIN WITH!

As was said before, if they never told you about DLC and never offered the season pass but 6 months later released 10 packs at $5 each would you feel better? You would have never known that they were working on anything for those 6 months. What's the difference?

Nobody is getting screwed, nobody at all. Everyone who has played it has said it's a good game.

 

[smackababy]

My Atari, NES, SNES, etc had none of this crap. And today, Forza is likely to make billions as is. They really need to screw consumers over this badly? This is like going to a movie theater and buying a ticket. And the movie is in black and white. You leave the theater to go to the ticket stand to find out you canupgrade to color for $2. No, I EXPECTED COLOR TO BEGIN WITH!

Your example isn't completely correct. If they made a movie in black and white, completely finished it AND then after they were done and it was awaiting release, they colored the film and released it for an upgraded cost a month after the original, does it devalue the original at all?

Forza 5, as is with no DLC, is a complete game and in no way forces players to spend RL money. League of Legends forces players to spend RL money; Dota 2 does not. Forza 5 is Dota 2 in that analogy. You CAN buy additional content AND you CAN buy access to skip the game itself and buy content. The cars in Forza 5 are no way unattainable. In less than a week, I've made over a million and a half credits. That is enough to buy one of 95% of the cars in the game.

The entitlement mentality that "I paid $60 give me everything unlockable free now" is the most moronic crybaby garbage I've ever seen. You are worse than a bunch of liberal arts majors crying they can't find a job after getting a masters in Medieval literature and hate the "1%ers".

Your kind has already ruined WoW, don't try and ruin Forza.

 

[purbeast0]

My Atari, NES, SNES, etc had none of this crap. And today, Forza is likely to make billions as is. They really need to screw consumers over this badly? This is like going to a movie theater and buying a ticket. And the movie is in black and white. You leave the theater to go to the ticket stand to find out you canupgrade to color for $2. No, I EXPECTED COLOR TO BEGIN WITH!

What a retarded analogy. At least compare it to movies coming out, you buy them, and then the extended edition with the "full" story comes out. Hell you can't even pay a small fee for the extra content like youcan with dlc, you HAVE to buy the full thing usually at a more expensive price. And as with dlc, you have the option to not buy it.

 

[Midwayman]

My Atari, NES, SNES, etc had none of this crap. And today, Forza is likely to make billions as is. They really need to screw consumers over this badly? This is like going to a movie theater and buying a ticket. And the movie is in black and white. You leave the theater to go to the ticket stand to find out you canupgrade to color for $2. No, I EXPECTED COLOR TO BEGIN WITH!

Nah. Its more like paying for the regular 2d ticket and getting all butthurt because they didn't give you a free upgrade to the 3d, imax, motion ride experience even though clearly it was being developed at the same time. Its not like the 2d movie is unenjoyable or a incomplete experience. There is just more available if you want to pay a premium.

 

[Topweasel]

It's funny all the different ways that people complain about DLC. Me I have always disliked DLC for the main reason that it often doesn't add enough to the game. I am not a completionist, I don't need to have every achievement possible in everygame. I try to accomplish as much as I can on a given run through. Without that driving me I have to find it compelling.

I also have respect for the development process and budgeting. We complain about everything. We complain when a game is too short, we get bored and don't finish a game that is too long. Games are too easy, games are too hard. I want more detailed cars, All I want is more cars. We ask so much of our games these days while production costs are skyrocketing. Forcing companies to push franchises over standalone titles while talking about how companies are just whoring out their IP.

For a lot of people 200 cars and 14 tracks are worth the increased, PQ, feedback, and attention to detail of a new launch game that had a more limited development window because it was a single platform game that didn't have any real hardware to develop it on till 2 years ago. With completely new models built from the ground up on new data collections. The foundation for this generations future Forza's. Now if that is not enough and $110 and 260ish cars isn't either don't get it. If $60 and 200 is than get it and not get the DLC.

But I can't ask someone to continue to improve their work and add more content but not get a dime from me as long as I have the option not to have to get it. Back in the day of the NES, buying SMB meant having to wait almost 4 years for SMB 2 and finding it completely different and disjointed to get more content. Then came expansions on PC's. Now it was slightly easier using previous models to build newer games. But often it was handed off to another company and the stories and execution were weaker (HL1 expansions) and much shorter. Then there was the idea of Episodic content, great in theory but you either had to make the game simple and short (Sin Emergence) to keep interest (it failed before the 2nd could even come out) or take so long to develop that it makes you wonder if you should have done a full game (HL2 EP1-3).

Today's staggered development teams with annual releases and content being developed while the game is being developed to give us continuous content that we can decided intelligently whether we want to buy it is exactly what we have wanted all along. Sure some companies are pushing it harder and harder as it probably is a great margin for content (but the content has to be purchased by enough people to realize that considering development costs). But again these are all voluntary purchases. But now we have the power to stay in the ME or KZ or CoD universe longer and almost non-stop if we want to.

 

[cmdrdredd]

It's funny all the different ways that people complain about DLC. Me I have always disliked DLC for the main reason that it often doesn't add enough to the game. I am not a completionist, I don't need to have every achievement possible in everygame. I try to accomplish as much as I can on a given run through. Without that driving me I have to find it compelling.

I also have respect for the development process and budgeting. We complain about everything. We complain when a game is too short, we get bored and don't finish a game that is too long. Games are too easy, games are too hard. I want more detailed cars, All I want is more cars. We ask so much of our games these days while production costs are skyrocketing. Forcing companies to push franchises over standalone titles while talking about how companies are just whoring out their IP.

For a lot of people 200 cars and 14 tracks are worth the increased, PQ, feedback, and attention to detail of a new launch game that had a more limited development window because it was a single platform game that didn't have any real hardware to develop it on till 2 years ago. With completely new models built from the ground up on new data collections. The foundation for this generations future Forza's. Now if that is not enough and $110 and 260ish cars isn't either don't get it. If $60 and 200 is than get it and not get the DLC.

But I can't ask someone to continue to improve their work and add more content but not get a dime from me as long as I have the option not to have to get it. Back in the day of the NES, buying SMB meant having to wait almost 4 years for SMB 2 and finding it completely different and disjointed to get more content. Then came expansions on PC's. Now it was slightly easier using previous models to build newer games. But often it was handed off to another company and the stories and execution were weaker (HL1 expansions) and much shorter. Then there was the idea of Episodic content, great in theory but you either had to make the game simple and short (Sin Emergence) to keep interest (it failed before the 2nd could even come out) or take so long to develop that it makes you wonder if you should have done a full game (HL2 EP1-3).

Today's staggered development teams with annual releases and content being developed while the game is being developed to give us continuous content that we can decided intelligently whether we want to buy it is exactly what we have wanted all along. Sure some companies are pushing it harder and harder as it probably is a great margin for content (but the content has to be purchased by enough people to realize that considering development costs). But again these are all voluntary purchases. But now we have the power to stay in the ME or KZ or CoD universe longer and almost non-stop if we want to.

Great post...sport on. I will also say that people who complain about trophy and achievement content are just as bad. I can't see playing the game a certain way and doing ridiculous things just to get a title. The game has to be fun and frustrating myself over a game is not really fun for me.

 

[Owls]

There is a simple solution. Buy the game if you want the game, don't if you don't. Don't buy the DLC if you don't want it.

How hard is that? It's not as if this is the only game that has DLC content. It is expected that nearly every game has DLC.

You're kidding yourself if you think it's going to change.

That is level 100 apathy right here, folks.

 

[ImpulsE69]

To beat a dead horse, these kind of attitudes of complacency are some of the same reasons the world is in the shape it is in. That being said however, I think more people are vocal over video games than what the government does. I do believe people should speak up for what they do or do not like and more people should rather than being called whiners. Not everyone is going to agree, but if you just simply sit there and don't say anything you will be steamrolled because while you can cover your eyes to the real world, money is the driving force behind everything. Quality control and/or consumer satisfaction is way below that. It has been shown time and again that many of the same people who complain about product A will still go out and buy product A version 2 (and then complain about it)....so what incentive do companies have to produce better products?

 

[cmdrdredd]

That is level 100 apathy right here, folks.

You are right I dont give a damn about crybabies in gaming who dont get their way. I bundle those types in with rage quitters and griefers.


Talking about customer satisfaction as if everyone who bought forza 5 hates it is idiotic too. There are many people right in these forums who own the game and have zero issues with the content because it is a good game as it is. Conveniently you ignore them for the sake of your own moaning.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

You are right I dont give a damn about crybabies in gaming who dont get their way. I bundle those types in with rage quitters and griefers.

Talking about customer satisfaction as if everyone who bought forza 5 hates it is idiotic too. There are many people right in these forums who own the game and have zero issues with the content because it is a good game as it is. Conveniently you ignore them for the sake of your own moaning.

And you ignore their issues because you don't share the same opinion. This is completely a matter of opinion; you're either fine with microtransactions or you aren't. And neither side is wrong; there's a valid argument to be made for both positions. Just because you don't have a problem with microtransactions doesn't mean that people who do are wrong.

Personally, I'm on the fence on this one. On the one hand, I want to see game developers get paid, and game prices haven't kept pace with inflation the way so many other commodities have, even as the cost of developing games has risen exponentially (but there's also a much larger user-base now than in the early 90s). At the same time, I get the feeling that developers aren't just creating new content after a game is released, they are purposefully withholding content and charging for it to increase the cost of the game; sure, it's optional, but it still could have been included in the regular game and was withheld specifically to get more money out of consumers. I'm finding myself siding with the developers more and more frequently; if I like a game and get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of it, why shouldn't I shell out a few more bucks to let these people know they're doing a good job providing additional content for my enjoyment? But Forza has a history of overdoing it slightly, and I regret buying the season pass for Forza 4 as I'd already gotten bored with the game by the time the later DLC was being released. Forza 5 seems even worse, with the day 1 DLC and the scant offering of tracks at launch, and that's a perfectly valid critique against it, whether you care about it or not. Does that make it a bad game? No, of course not. But it is a perfectly valid reason for someone not to want to buy it.

Regardless, my point is that just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't make them wrong. Summarily dismissing them because you disagree makes you look like every bit the crybaby you accuse them of being. You can politely disagree with somebody without resorting to immaturity.

 

[smackababy]

And you ignore their issues because you don't share the same opinion. This is completely a matter of opinion; you're either fine with microtransactions or you aren't. And neither side is wrong; there's a valid argument to be made for both positions. Just because you don't have a problem with microtransactions doesn't mean that people who do are wrong.

Wrong. The side that "omg the game is forcing you to participate in microtransactions" opinion, as shared in the article and most of the people here, is WRONG. There is nothing, I repeat: NOTHING, forcing you to buy or use car tokens (the RL money addition). The game is increasingly easier to gain money than previous Forza games, doesn't charge you for car damage, and you gain credits every day from your drivatar racing for you.

Now, if someone is against there being an option to circumvent the game to buy cars with real money, that is perfectly fine (and kind of silly, as it is like being against someone being able to pay for faster service or better things).

Valid arguments against the game would include things like: limited content due to a shortened development cycle, design decisions making all cars not available in free play. drivatar AI basically being a joke.

Your idea that they are withholding content to sell as DLC is completely unfounded. Please provide proof anyone has EVER done this.

The fact remains, Forza 5 is a complete (and good) game without any additions. Because you know there will be additional content sold later (and already is), doesn't make the released product any less. In fact, I would bet my bottom dollar the DLC wasn't even started on until the game went gold. But, because that happens sometimes months before release, obviously, they withheld the content and are trying to screw gamers...

 

[Anteaus]

The fact remains, Forza 5 is a complete (and good) game without any additions. Because you know there will be additional content sold later (and already is), doesn't make the released product any less. In fact, I would bet my bottom dollar the DLC wasn't even started on until the game went gold. But, because that happens sometimes months before release, obviously, they withheld the content and are trying to screw gamers...

Agreed. The closest I even got to realizing there were microtransactions were the "press Y to level faster" at the top of the screen that I never pressed and that you can buy cars with either in game currency or what appears to be "purchased" currency. I've put in almost 10 hours and never felt like anything was missing. The game def doesn't shove it in your face like some would try and make you believe.

That's my experience so far so perhaps it changes in the later game...but for now I'm satisfied.

 

[smackababy]

Agreed. The closest I even got to realizing there were microtransactions were the "press Y to level faster" at the top of the screen that I never pressed and that you can buy cars with either in game currency or what appears to be "purchased" currency. I've put in almost 10 hours and never felt like anything was missing. The game def doesn't shove it in your face like some would try and make you believe.

That's my experience so far so perhaps it changes in the later game...but for now I'm satisfied.

Their argument is the font on the purchase car with CR and the purchase car with Tokens is the same size. Therefore, the purchase with tokens is being shoved down your throat!

Also, it should be noted the game will say when cars are affordable for a series, and it DOES NOT take into account token balance (all Collector's Editions got 1350 tokens). It only says they are affordable if you can afford with them your current CR balance.

People also claim it is because the marketplace is not available yet, somehow Turn10 is forcing the economy to rely on real life money token purchases... Just pathetic stretching for something to bitch about.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Wrong. The side that "omg the game is forcing you to participate in microtransactions" opinion, as shared in the article and most of the people here, is WRONG. There is nothing, I repeat: NOTHING, forcing you to buy or use car tokens (the RL money addition). The game is increasingly easier to gain money than previous Forza games, doesn't charge you for car damage, and you gain credits every day from your drivatar racing for you.

The article in the OP is a news release from Turn 10 announcing that they are changing the ingame economy because of complaints from players. The developer of the game is responding to complaints from people who play the game. If they're wrong in their complaints, why would the developer bother trying to appease them? And their complaints don't seem out of line. From the article:

1. No cars unlocked as you level (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)

2. No manufacturer affinity (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)

3. Free play does not allow you to use any car (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)

4. Changes to selling liveries (previous Forzas had this, why change it?)

5. Car tokens (this complaint seems silly as FM4 had car tokens too)

Apart from point 5, those sound like perfectly valid complaints. Those 4 things were all areas where Forza 4 was better than Gran Turismo; why remove them? I can understand maybe tweaking manufacturer affinity so that you can't skate through the game without spending anything on upgrades after a couple races, but what's the point in removing level rewards or the ability to use any car you want in free play? How does that benefit gamers? Is it pushing people towards spending actual money on cars? No, I think that's a bit extreme. But those are all changes for the worse, and there doesn't seem to be a logical reason for making them.

 

[smackababy]

The article in the OP is a news release from Turn 10 announcing that they are changing the ingame economy because of complaints from players. The developer of the game is responding to complaints from people who play the game. If they're wrong in their complaints, why would the developer bother trying to appease them? And their complaints don't seem out of line. From the article:

1. No cars unlocked as you level (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?) Unneeded. People really enjoyed getting a Civic at level 35, way past the point where the car would be useful?

2. No manufacturer affinity (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?) It is still there. Instead of the broken system of extremely cheap upgrades (if you played Forza 4, you can't argue the upgrades were trivial after a few races), they offer extra money as bonuses.

3. Free play does not allow you to use any car (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?) I've already addressed this is a valid complaint, but a gameplay decision. Nothing to do with forcing microtransactions. You can still test drive any car IIRC.

4. Changes to selling liveries (previous Forzas had this, why change it?) The marketplace has yet to be finished, so we could be allowed to sell liveries. This is, most likely, due to the limited development time to make the game a launch title. Yes, that should be unacceptable, but it is how software development works these days. In the past, if you couldn't finish in a decent amount of time, you became 3D Realms and Duke Nukem 3D.

5. Car tokens (this complaint seems silly as FM4 had car tokens too) This is the argument people seem to be saying is "shameless" and why you should avoid the game; which is beyond retarded.

Addressed the issue in bold.

Apart from point 5, those sound like perfectly valid complaints. Those 4 things were all areas where Forza 4 was better than Gran Turismo; why remove them? I can understand maybe tweaking manufacturer affinity so that you can't skate through the game without spending anything on upgrades after a couple races, but what's the point in removing level rewards or the ability to use any car you want in free play? How does that benefit gamers? Is it pushing people towards spending actual money on cars? No, I think that's a bit extreme. But those are all changes for the worse, and there doesn't seem to be a logical reason for making them.

They changed all level rewards into tokens. There is very little reason I should get a 30k credit car that I can't even resell (well, I can, but for 1 credit). I will take the credits and buy what I want. Having a garage filled with useless cars I have no intention of ever using is silly.

 

[Topweasel]

The article in the OP is a news release from Turn 10 announcing that they are changing the ingame economy because of complaints from players. The developer of the game is responding to complaints from people who play the game. If they're wrong in their complaints, why would the developer bother trying to appease them? And their complaints don't seem out of line. From the article:

1. No cars unlocked as you level (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)

2. No manufacturer affinity (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)

3. Free play does not allow you to use any car (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)

4. Changes to selling liveries (previous Forzas had this, why change it?)

5. Car tokens (this complaint seems silly as FM4 had car tokens too)

Apart from point 5, those sound like perfectly valid complaints. Those 4 things were all areas where Forza 4 was better than Gran Turismo; why remove them? I can understand maybe tweaking manufacturer affinity so that you can't skate through the game without spending anything on upgrades after a couple races, but what's the point in removing level rewards or the ability to use any car you want in free play? How does that benefit gamers? Is it pushing people towards spending actual money on cars? No, I think that's a bit extreme. But those are all changes for the worse, and there doesn't seem to be a logical reason for making them.

Obviously you have not played the game or care to play the game or cared about past Forza's because at least one of those statements doesn't apply to 5. I mean really obvious in that it doesn't apply to 5. I mean it's silly to put that in there at all and I would be ashamed if if Forza's Forum had a thread dedicated to the topic.

But all you need to do is play the game to see why some things where changed up.

If you have only 200 cars, you don't give 30% of them away for leveling up. Or 25% away for finishing events.

#2 is the obvious one if you haven't figured it out yet. It doesn't apply since 5 has had Manufacturer affinity since day one.

3. Change it up for changing up sake. You can "rent" a car for free play. Doesn't cost money or Tokens. But doesn't help with Affinity or level. Which they added basically outside rentals any driving you do is helping you. So I don't think it's a valid complaint.

4. Why not change it. Was 4 perfect? No. Will whatever 5's offering is once fully available be better than 4's? Maybe not. But why be complacent. Why not shake things up a bit.

5. As silly as you mentioned. Most games have a way to buy in game funds.

But a willingness to adapt the demands of the consumer shouldn't be held against a company. Like the stupid Xbox180 jokes. It's people seem to like to trash a company for doing exactly what they wanted the company to do. No one here is saying Forza 5 is perfect. And the in game economy is a perfect example of one that could use some tweaking. But I don't even think it's that much of an issue. With Drivatars now earning money for you, I would be hard pressed to believe that it really takes all that more effort to get to the nice cars. My 3rd car was a Ferrari F360 S and my fourth car was a Ferrari 458 Italia. That's 500k in cars with 3 series finished and about 24 gold results.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

1. No cars unlocked as you level (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)
Unneeded. People really enjoyed getting a Civic at level 35, way past the point where the car would be useful?

2. No manufacturer affinity (previous Forzas had this, why remove it?)
It is still there. Instead of the broken system of extremely cheap upgrades (if you played Forza 4, you can't argue the upgrades were trivial after a few races), they offer extra money as bonuses.

On the first point, I thought that the car unlocks as you progressed through FM4 were one of its greatest strengths over Gran Turismo. GT had car unlocks as well, but they didn't seem to be related to anything, and were usually useless for progression (the one exception being the vastly overpowered Mazda Furai). FM4 had progressive unlocks that got consistently better and allowed you to enter newer races. There were no "Civics at level 35" (which was a problem in GT5); by level 35, you were unlocking supercars. This was a great feature that helped FM4 feel like a great video game and I'm sorry it's gone, even if it has been replaced by simple cash (and it sounds like I'm not the only one who has this complaint).

On point two, I'm glad they overhauled manufacturer affinity; it was a little bit absurd to mod cars for free after a couple races. But that could certainly come across as costly, so hopefully the payouts are suitable to offset some of the cost without making it completely free.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Obviously you have not played the game or care to play the game or cared about past Forza's because at least one of those statements doesn't apply to 5. I mean really obvious in that it doesn't apply to 5. I mean it's silly to put that in there at all and I would be ashamed if if Forza's Forum had a thread dedicated to the topic.

I haven't played 5 yet, no, but I don't see how you'd possibly get from my synopsis of the article linked in the OP that I don't care to or don't care about previous Forzas. Forza 4 is my favorite racing game of all time, and despite the bigger complaints against Forza 5 (lack of tracks being the most obvious), it still looks like a great game to me. I don't know that I'll play it, as I have no plans to pick up an Xbox One any time soon, but that's not because I don't care about Forza.

 

[Owls]

You are right I dont give a damn about crybabies in gaming who dont get their way. I bundle those types in with rage quitters and griefers.


Talking about customer satisfaction as if everyone who bought forza 5 hates it is idiotic too. There are many people right in these forums who own the game and have zero issues with the content because it is a good game as it is. Conveniently you ignore them for the sake of your own moaning.

Brow beating people on this forum for voicing a legitimate complaint just because it doesn't bother you doesn't reinforce your argument one bit

 

[Topweasel]

I haven't played 5 yet, no, but I don't see how you'd possibly get from my synopsis of the article linked in the OP that I don't care to or don't care about previous Forzas. Forza 4 is my favorite racing game of all time, and despite the bigger complaints against Forza 5 (lack of tracks being the most obvious), it still looks like a great game to me. I don't know that I'll play it, as I have no plans to pick up an Xbox One any time soon, but that's not because I don't care about Forza.

Just saying that it would be super apparent that Manufacturer affinity still existed. I mean really apparent. It changed on how it works but its still there. More money instead of cheaper deals on parts. To me that means you didn't research it all. Only a curious glance at "complaints". That doesn't read as someone disappointed and dismayed that they will be passing on one of the games in their favorite franchise.

 

[smackababy]

On the first point, I thought that the car unlocks as you progressed through FM4 were one of its greatest strengths over Gran Turismo. GT had car unlocks as well, but they didn't seem to be related to anything, and were usually useless for progression (the one exception being the vastly overpowered Mazda Furai). FM4 had progressive unlocks that got consistently better and allowed you to enter newer races. There were no "Civics at level 35" (which was a problem in GT5); by level 35, you were unlocking supercars. This was a great feature that helped FM4 feel like a great video game and I'm sorry it's gone, even if it has been replaced by simple cash (and it sounds like I'm not the only one who has this complaint).

Yes, for some they might not like the removal of cars for leveling up, but leveling up happens much faster now. Even after level 50 in Forza 4, you just got cash. They've just stuck with that and let people buy the cars they want to buy.

On point two, I'm glad they overhauled manufacturer affinity; it was a little bit absurd to mod cars for free after a couple races. But that could certainly come across as costly, so hopefully the payouts are suitable to offset some of the cost without making it completely free.

Well, upgrading cars, at least for career mode, is almost hidden. When you try and enter a series you don't have an available car for, it shows you the list of eligible cars and they are all upgraded to the top of the class eligible (for example, every super car will be A699 / A700 or whatever) and the price of the upgrades is put in the price of the car. So, you never really see. Alternatively, you can buy the car alone and upgrade what you want to get to that level (which is generally better because the auto upgrade sometimes doesn't buy things that allow you to make adjustments). When doing something with a car not upgraded to the max, the game will offer you a choice to auto upgrade, manually upgrade, or enter as is.