[XBIT] Radeon HD 7990 vs. GeForce GTX 690 and GeForce TITAN Performance Review

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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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I can't agree there; with regular geometry 4xMSAA can be visibly inadequate during gaming compared to 8xMSAA on high contrast edges (for example).

At times it's actually quite easy to spot at 2560x1600 during actual gaming.

You're playing fairly dated games though, aren't you? I'm only asking because I was just thinking of the benchmark list you compiled for your titan. I feel like modern AAA titles make the difference negligible.

With respect to modern modern games i'd have to agree with tviceman. In crysis 3 (and many other recent AAA titles) I can't spot any difference between 4x or 8x MSAA, and I generally just stick with FXAA most of the time. Additionally, the performance hit associated with 8x MSAA is generally never worth it. I can appreciate high levels of MSAA for older games, in which i'd use SGSSAA anyway - but for modern titles the difference is fairly difficult to discern.
 
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Feb 19, 2009
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It's impossible to ignore how overpriced it is considering after-market 780s are actually as fast or faster out of the box. You bringing up the fact that the Titan is 4 months old only exacerbates how awful the card is because it is now being beaten by GTX780 after-market cards that cost less.

For some people, price is NEVER a factor, as such you cannot help these individuals make informed buying decisions. In fact, they win at life, because money is not an issue for them to worry about, EVER.

You can't argue with winners. But you can certainly ignore them and their nonsensical utterances and you'll have a much better day.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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You're playing fairly dated games though, aren't you? I'm only asking because I was just thinking of the benchmark list you compiled for your titan. I feel like modern AAA titles make the difference negligible.

With respect to modern modern games i'd have to agree with tviceman. In crysis 3 (and many other recent AAA titles) I can't spot any difference between 4x or 8x MSAA, and I generally just stick with FXAA most of the time. Additionally, the performance hit associated with 8x MSAA is generally never worth it. I can appreciate high levels of MSAA for older games, in which i'd use SGSSAA anyway - but for modern titles the difference is fairly difficult to discern.

The key is to have flexibility for ones subjective needs, tastes, thresholds and tolerances, which may differ! Personally appreciate x2, x4, x8 MSAA, CSAA, SGSSAA, hybrid mixed modes, FXAA, TRSSAA, TRMSAA and TXAA based on they all offer different strengths.

I guess these modes are out of the question:):

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3697/uok.png

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5999/8cwp.png
 
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SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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For some people, price is NEVER a factor, as such you cannot help these individuals make informed buying decisions. In fact, they win at life, because money is not an issue for them to worry about, EVER.

You can't argue with winners. But you can certainly ignore them and their nonsensical utterances and you'll have a much better day.

What if one really enjoys surround gaming and has three higher end 1440p or 1600p monitors and enjoys higher IQ enhancements?

This may be why AMD, their partners and nVidia offer 6 gig skus.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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What if one really enjoys surround gaming and has three higher end 1440p or 1600p monitors and enjoys higher IQ enhancements?

This may be why AMD, their partners and nVidia offer 6 gig skus.

As I've said, people who have 3x 1600p or even 4k monitors obviously have too much money to care.. so price is not a factor for them, Titan could be at $2,000 and they will still buy it. They certainly are winning life!
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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As I've said, people who have 3x 1600p or even 4k monitors obviously have too much money to care.. so price is not a factor for them, Titan could be at $2,000 and they will still buy it. They certainly are winning life!

Don't be so quick to glamorize. Remember Don Karnage?
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Okay let me expand that phrase: People with ridiculous gaming setups have either:

A) Too much money to care about pitty little things such as "value".. that's for the peasants to worry about.

B) Single or living in the basement, without a wife to nag at such ridiculous expenditures.. especially when the kids need their tuition or a big dental braces bill etc.

C) Don.

Sadly, we can't all be winners, so only those that fall into category A is winning life!
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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Okay let me expand that phrase: People with ridiculous gaming setups have either:

A) Too much money to care about pitty little things such as "value".. that's for the peasants to worry about.

B) Single or living in the basement, without a wife to nag at such ridiculous expenditures.. especially when the kids need their tuition or a big dental braces bill etc.

C) Don.

Sadly, we can't all be winners, so only those that fall into category A is winning life!

LOL That's better. ;)
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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Those other cards have two GPUs in case you didn't notice. SLI/CF-fps != Single-GPU fps.

In the case of GTX780 SLI vs. Titan, there is no compromise. Titan OC can not beat GTX780 OC by more than 5% since the Titan OC runs into a TDP bottleneck. Therefore, you get 95% of the performance of the Titan when SLI is broken and 180-190% of the Titan when it works. All that for only $300 more. Not only that but after market 780s have superior coolers than the reference Titan cooler.

47/35=135%
It IS half a generational jump, there is no denying it.

Yes, but only 12 fps more in a game. You pay $1000 for a GPU that outperforms a $400 GPU by 12 fps.

The 780 is a way better deal, that much is clear. Still your attempt to badmouth the performance itself is disgustingly biased. Percentages are valid - nobody forces you to play at (for your taste!) unplayable fps or settings. They can be adjusted...

You keep focusing on the %. Let's say 1 GPU performs at 20 fps and another at 27 fps. That's still a 35% increase which you would call half a generational. The difference is 35 and 47 fps are still slow. 12 fps more over a $400 GPU is laughable when it costs $600 to get that unless you make $1000 a day, or are a gaming addict. :rolleyes:

You forget important information tidbits (like that Titan is already 4 months old)

The Titan being 4 months old is worse for its price, not better. You seem to be defending the Titan because it is 4 months old? I do not get your point. Now that the 780 came out, the Titan's price needs an adjustment. You seem to ignore this.

compare SGPU with AFR without a second thought

I compared the Titan to both GTX690 and HD7990. You can look at the graphs and those dual GPUs outperform it by 29-30%. In the case of the 690, it's micro-stutter is excellent.

, generalize about compute

Like? What I've said about compute is that GCN architecture is superior in compute than Kepler. This has been proven in many titles now. If we look at 561mm2 die size of GTX780/Titan and compare it to 365mm2 Tahiti in titles that use Compute shaders or compute for SSAA, global illumination, etc. it can be clearly seen that GCN is superior to Kepler. You have denied it for the last 18 months.

As far as generalizing compute for Titan, it's an advantage for the card. If someone is using professional programs that take advantage of many CUDA cores, the Titan is justified. Otherwise, it's a waste. For multi-monitors, the Titan can't take advantage of 6GB of VRAM since it runs out of GPU power.

and ignore important facts like specs

Huh? When did I ignore specs? Over the last 4-5 GPU generations between NV and AMD, I have proven with facts that you cannot compare GPU specs on paper between AMD and NV without looking at real world performance. Case and point pixel / ROP performance of HD7970 vs. 6970, which proves that you cannot even accurately compare AMD to AMD cards on paper. Therefore, I do not even understand your point on specs.

compare OC vs non-OC cards etc.pp.

Since when? For as long as I remember, I linked GTX460 OC vs. 5850 OC, GTX680 OC vs. 7970 OC, and I even go out of my way to show people benches for them like 760 OC vs. 770 OC vs. 780 OC. Additionally, I have linked comparisons of 7950 OC vs. 760 OC and 7950 OC vs. 7970 OC, as well as compared GTX670 OC vs. 7970 GE stock to show that 670's power consumption and performance matched a stock 7970GE once the 670 is overclocked.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with comparing OC vs. OC and OC vs. stock depending on the context of what's being discussed. If we are talking about how much power increases on a stock card to reach a performance of the next tier card and how much overclock is required, then it 100% makes sense to look at slower card A overclocked vs. faster card B stock. If you are talking about max performance, then we look at Card A overclocked vs. Card B overclocked. I think you have not been able to pay attention to my posts carefully.

Even recently, I linked reviews of all overclocked cards here and here.

This has become a habit of yours, and a bad one at that in my opinion. You should work on that.

Not it has not. What has become a habit is NV owners defending price/performance of their overpriced purchases. Every time I use real world performance and mathematics to show NV cards in negative light, I get accused of "bad" habits, or working for AMD.

And BTW, even Computerbase has already proved that the Titan is irrelevant for games since the cooler is worse than on after-market 780s and after-market 780s are faster than the reference Titan.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...it-geforce-gtx-780-super-jetstream-im-test/2/

Anyone who is spending $1,000 on the Titan can easily afford $1,300 after-market 780s. For this reason, the Titan as a gaming card is a complete and total waste of $ unless someone is buying 3-4 of them because they are loaded and price to them is a non-factor. Despite all this, the Titan's performance in Crysis 3 is very disappointing, same for other games like COH2, GRID2, etc.
 

boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
2,605
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In the case of GTX780 SLI vs. Titan, there is no compromise. Titan OC can not beat GTX780 OC by more than 5% since the Titan OC runs into a TDP bottleneck. Therefore, you get 95% of the performance of the Titan when SLI is broken and 180-190% of the Titan when it works. All that for only $300 more. Not only that but after market 780s have superior coolers than the reference Titan cooler.

You still fail to acknoledge that you cannot compare performance of AFR and non-AFR solutions directly by looking at fps - which you do.

Yes, but only 12 fps more in a game. You pay $1000 for a GPU that outperforms a $400 GPU by 12 fps.

So you agree with my assessment. Good.

You keep focusing on the %. Let's say 1 GPU performs at 20 fps and another at 27 fps. That's still a 35% increase which you would call half a generational. The difference is 35 and 47 fps are still slow. 12 fps more over a $400 GPU is laughable when it costs $600 to get that unless you make $1000 a day, or are a gaming addict. :rolleyes:

Learn to read. I said "the performance itself". There is no mention of price there. 35% is a noticeable jump, period.

The Titan being 4 months old is worse for its price, not better. You seem to be defending the Titan because it is 4 months old? I do not get your point. Now that the 780 came out, the Titan's price needs an adjustment. You seem to ignore this.

Let's try to stay on the actual argument without deviating (again). If you want to compare age, you have to include age of ALL mentioned cards, period.

I compared the Titan to both GTX690 and HD7990. You can look at the graphs and those dual GPUs outperform it by 29-30%. In the case of the 690, it's micro-stutter is excellent.

Have you ever had SLI? I do, for 3 years now. In most cases, I would consider below 50 fps as unplayable with SLI. A 30% advantage doesn't help there. 40 AFR-fps can feel like 20-25.

Like? What I've said about compute is that GCN architecture is superior in compute than Kepler. This has been proven in many titles now. If we look at 561mm2 die size of GTX780/Titan and compare it to 365mm2 Tahiti in titles that use Compute shaders or compute for SSAA, global illumination, etc. it can be clearly seen that GCN is superior to Kepler. You have denied it for the last 18 months.

No, it has most definitely not.
You still have not gotten it. You need to look at specs. If you were to give GK104 2048 SPs and 288GB/s of bandwidth, it would perform the same or better than Tahiti, I'm sure of it. You keep ignoring that there is a massive discrepancy with these GPUs in terms of shading power and bandwidth.
When will you finally understand that? I could as well go about and say "The GT650 is faster than the HD7750 DDR3 - Kepler is better at compute at GCN!" Which would be stupid since I would be ignoring bandwidth as a very important factor in this example.

Die size says absolutely nothing about gaming performance. GK110 has things like hyper-Q, dynamic parallelism and a 1:3 DP/SP ratio. All that costs transistors. And who knows what else is in there.

As far as generalizing compute for Titan, it's an advantage for the card. If someone is using professional programs that take advantage of many CUDA cores, the Titan is justified. Otherwise, it's a waste. For multi-monitors, the Titan can't take advantage of 6GB of VRAM since it runs out of GPU power.

Huh? When did I ignore specs? Over the last 4-5 GPU generations between NV and AMD, I have proven with facts that you cannot compare GPU specs on paper between AMD and NV without looking at real world performance. Case and point pixel / ROP performance of HD7970 vs. 6970, which proves that you cannot even accurately compare AMD to AMD cards on paper. Therefore, I do not even understand your point on specs.

Always. I have given you many counterexamples in the other thread which you have ignored and not answered to. You have not conclusively proven anything.

Since when? For as long as I remember, I linked GTX460 OC vs. 5850 OC, GTX680 OC vs. 7970 OC, and I even go out of my way to show people benches for them like 760 OC vs. 770 OC vs. 780 OC. Additionally, I have linked comparisons of 7950 OC vs. 760 OC and 7950 OC vs. 7970 OC, as well as compared GTX670 OC vs. 7970 GE stock to show that 670's power consumption and performance matched a stock 7970GE once the 670 is overclocked.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with comparing OC vs. OC and OC vs. stock depending on the context of what's being discussed. If we are talking about how much power increases on a stock card to reach a performance of the next tier card and how much overclock is required, then it 100% makes sense to look at slower card A overclocked vs. faster card B stock. If you are talking about max performance, then we look at Card A overclocked vs. Card B overclocked. I think you have not been able to pay attention to my posts carefully.

Even recently, I linked reviews of all overclocked cards here and here.

Then your memory is quite selective. I remember you touting the 7970s OC performance over and over again while ignoring a 580 OC.

Not it has not. What has become a habit is NV owners defending price/performance of their overpriced purchases. Every time I use real world performance and mathematics to show NV cards in negative light, I get accused of "bad" habits, or working for AMD.

And BTW, even Computerbase has already proved that the Titan is irrelevant for games since the cooler is worse than on after-market 780s and after-market 780s are faster than the reference Titan.
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...it-geforce-gtx-780-super-jetstream-im-test/2/

Anyone who is spending $1,000 on the Titan can easily afford $1,300 after-market 780s. For this reason, the Titan as a gaming card is a complete and total waste of $ unless someone is buying 3-4 of them because they are loaded and price to them is a non-factor. Despite all this, the Titan's performance in Crysis 3 is very disappointing, same for other games like COH2, GRID2, etc.

Yes it has. You still talk about AFR without first hand experience. You still ignore specs and stick to false claims about compute, you mention the age of one card but not the other and you play down noticeable performance differences. This is one-sided, there is no denying it.
 
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SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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The higher the MSRP -- usually less price/performance -- nothing new really!
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Actually $1000 is pretty "new" for a consumer GPU. New as in setting an entirely new standard for ripoff prices.
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
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And it's new that the competition is taking a break from competing because they think it makes more sense to sell their hardware with free games instead of making better hardware.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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It would be a competition if its within a similar price range..

Imagine next time, if AMD release a card that was a bit faster and charged $600 EXTRA for it, I wonder what you NV fanboys have to say to that. I'm pretty sure it won't be the same bull you are coming up with now.

Actually wait, it did happen. The 7970 at release was about the same margin faster than the gtx580 and only went for $50 extra (10%) and you all screamed bloody rip-off.

Typical.
 

SiliconWars

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,346
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And it's new that the competition is taking a break from competing because they think it makes more sense to sell their hardware with free games instead of making better hardware.

In stark contrast to Nvidia who sell their old hardware with a new sticker and less free games.
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
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It would be a competition if its within a similar price range..

What a logic. You know that market prices are a result of competition? Titan stands at $1000 because AMD has nothing to offer which has the same performance.

Actually wait, it did happen. The 7970 at release was about the same margin faster than the gtx580 and only went for $50 extra (10%) and you all screamed bloody rip-off.

Typical.
Yeah, the 7970. A card which was beaten 2 1/2 months later by the $499 GTX680. Which allow nVidia to increase the MSRP of their whole line up.

Yes it was a miracle for AMD and the market.
 

Leadbox

Senior member
Oct 25, 2010
744
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What a logic. You know that market prices are a result of competition? Titan stands at $1000 because AMD has nothing to offer which has the same performance.

Yeah, the 7970. A card which was beaten 2 1/2 months later by the $499 GTX680. Which allow nVidia to increase the MSRP of their whole line up.

Yes it was a miracle for AMD and the market.

Nah! nVidia know their sheep well, the suckers will buy no matter the price

Warning issued for inflammatory language.
-- stahlhart
 
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SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
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It would be a competition if its within a similar price range..

Imagine next time, if AMD release a card that was a bit faster and charged $600 EXTRA for it, I wonder what you NV fanboys have to say to that. I'm pretty sure it won't be the same bull you are coming up with now.

Actually wait, it did happen. The 7970 at release was about the same margin faster than the gtx580 and only went for $50 extra (10%) and you all screamed bloody rip-off.

Typical.

What bull?

imho,

That price performance was lackluster, more-so evolutionary and incremental with 28nm considering the nodes and arch were substantial and significant? Did take some strong competition and node maturity to see much stronger price performance over-all with sku's like the GTX 760 and HD 7950!

What bull?

Imho,

When companies have a competitive advantage, they may demand a premium or reward for their work considering they have all the risk -- AMD's pricing and raising of MSRP when they had a competitive advantage and the same with nVidia with pricing of the GK-110!

Ultimately, the market decides, rightly or wrongly! IF the market can't sustain its asking price there may be price adjustments. If Titan isn't compelling there are many other sku's that provide much more price/peformance!

A simple point: The higher the MSRP; the less price performance - nothing really new!
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
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Yeah, like the $499 GTX680 which is faster, cheaper, cooler, needs less power and has more features than the $549 7970.

Oh wait... Why shouldn't their "sheeps" buy Titan when the competition offers only 66-75% of the performance of Titan?

It seems more like that AMD's "sheeps" don't care about faster hardware as long as they can praise AMD for whatever reason.

Warning issued for inflammatory language.
-- stahlhart
 
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sushiwarrior

Senior member
Mar 17, 2010
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when the competition offers only 66-75% of the performance of Titan?

Hey man, regardless of the rest of your post, please learn percentages, they don't really work that way. 25-33% faster =/= 66-75% slower.

To explain: 133/100 = 33% faster. 100/133 = 75% as fast.
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
149
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Hey man, regardless of the rest of your post, please learn percentages, they don't really work that way. 25-33% faster =/= 66-75% slower.

To explain: 133/100 = 33% faster. 100/133 = 75% as fast.

It that case:
The 7970GHz is 25 - 33% slower. I guess it was clear.