[Xbit] Broadwell delayed.

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SiliconWars

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Dec 29, 2012
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http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...roadwell_Processors_for_Notebooks_Slides.html

This is extremely unlikely to be a planned delay, as the article suggests they will miss the "back to school" period which is something they'd never do intentionally.

What makes this even more of a surprise is that very recently during their Q2 conference call, Intel said that 14nm was "still on track" - http://seekingalpha.com/article/134...-2013-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=3

we are on track to start production on 14 nanometer process technology in the back half of this year.
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Curious, but I'm sure they wouldn't lie about it at a conference call so something must have happened in the week between then and now.
 
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USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
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SiliconWars said:
Well, what else could it be?
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Its not new Atom since thats 22NM.

Its not Knights Landing either:

http://wccftech.com/xeon-phi-hpc-codenamed-knights-corner-revealed/

SkyLake1-635x433.jpg


It seems desktop Broadwell is 2015.

NTMBK said:
14nm Atom.
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So they launch 22NM new Atom in late 2013 or early 2014 and replace it almost immediately??
 
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SiliconWars

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If it's not a 14nm delay it can only be something they are fabbing for another customer. While possible, that just seems pretty far-fetched to me.
 
ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Haswell was in production since 2012 as well. Release June 2013.
Broadwell starts production in Q4 2013. Release in H2 2014. Most likely July 2014.

You only need to add 1 month extra to a year before its H2.

Ohh the drama!
 
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SiliconWars

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ShintaiDK said:
Haswell was in production since 2012 as well. Release June 2013.
Broadwell starts production in Q4 2013. Release in H2 2014. Most likely July 2014.

You only need to add 1 month extra to a year before its H2.

Ohh the drama!
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It's important because they are missing the "back to school" period, one of the biggest selling periods of the year.

Even if production started on December 31st this year, a whole (minimum) 6 months till it ships seems a bit unrealistic don't you think? I mean why do that, especially if it means missing back-to-school?

The only way I can see production starting at the end of this year is if they have another product on 14nm. Not Broadwell, no chance of Airmont...doesn't leave much else it can be.
 
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ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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SiliconWars said:
It's important because they are missing the "back to school" period, one of the biggest selling periods of the year.

Even if production started on December 31st this year, a whole (minimum) 6 months till it ships seems a bit unrealistic don't you think? I mean why do that, especially if it means missing back-to-school?

The only way I can see production starting at the end of this year is if they have another product on 14nm. Not Broadwell, no chance of Silvermont...doesn't leave much else it can be.
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Back to school primary buy laptops. And those wont be around until OEMs get their act together. Sure you can buy some Apple devices from day 1. The rest, roll a dice.

6 months unrealistic? The first 3 months the chips are underway in the fabs. And then 3 months to build up and distribute inventories. Not to mention all the other parts of the chain.

Why are console APUs in production now, if they first release at xmas?
 
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strata8

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The combination of Haswell Celeron + Bay Trail in Q4 2013-Q1 2014 could really put pressure on Kabini and Temash.
 
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SiliconWars

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Dec 29, 2012
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ShintaiDK said:
6 months unrealistic? The first 3 months the chips are underway in the fabs. And then 3 months to build up and distribute inventories. Not to mention all the other parts of the chain.

Why are console APUs in production now, if they first release at xmas?
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The console releases are planned for November. If we assume silicon production started now at the beginning of July, that's 4-5 months from silicon production start to the retail of the finished console. Intel would be (at least) 6 months from production start to start of shipping the CPU's, then we'd expect another 2-3 months before laptops are seen (8-9 months total). This is only if they start Broadwell production at the very end of December, and launch at the very start of July. That seems a bit of a stretch to me.
 
ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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SiliconWars said:
The console releases are planned for November. If we assume silicon production started now in July, that's 5 months from silicon production start to the retail of the finished unit. Intel would be (at least) 6 months from production start to start of shipping the CPU's, then we'd expect another 2-3 months before laptops are seen. This is only if they start Broadwell production at the very end of December, and launch at the very start of July. Seems a bit of a stretch to me.
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Silicon production started last quarter for the consoles ;)

From a manufacturing perspective, in a year we ship tens of millions of units. So we have a very strong manufacturing base for our APUs and discrete graphics. We leverage the same manufacturing infrastructure to develop for game consoles. So the volumes were not something that actually raised an eyebrow for us, because we're already in high-volume manufacturing," said Saeid Moshkelani, vice president of AMD and the general manager of the company’s semi-custom business unit.
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How many chips do you think is produced right away per day? And you do know OEMs demand supply garantee?

I know you want the drama and sensationalism. But its just not there.
 
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SiliconWars

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ShintaiDK said:
Silicon production started last quarter for the consoles ;)
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If so then it was probably very late in the quarter, and doesn't change much. They will still be < 6 months maximum from silicon start to finished console in the shops, while Intel would be 6 months *minimum* in production till first shipping.

From a manufacturing perspective, in a year we ship tens of millions of units. So we have a very strong manufacturing base for our APUs and discrete graphics. We leverage the same manufacturing infrastructure to develop for game consoles. So the volumes were not something that actually raised an eyebrow for us, because we're already in high-volume manufacturing," said Saeid Moshkelani, vice president of AMD and the general manager of the company&#8217;s semi-custom business unit.
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I took that quote as meaning they were already in high-volume manufacturing of Jaguar/28nm, not necessarily the console silicon.

How many chips do you think is produced right away per day? And you do know OEMs demand supply garantee?

I know you want the drama and sensationalism. But its just not there.
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There is clearly a story here. There has been rumours of 14nm problems for a long time now, but Intel has always just said that it's "on track". There was the Broadwell desktop delay and people said it was because they were concentrating on Broadwell mobile first. Now mobile is delayed.

There's no shame in it, clearly this is extreme cutting-edge manufacturing - but Intel's tick-tock does not appear to be on time any more.
 
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ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Who says Broadwell is delayed? Plese link me the official previous release statement saying it would be before H2 2014. Else its simply BS.
 
Gikaseixas

Gikaseixas

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In the end Intel will still sell the most. Even if this is a fact, nothing will change market share wise
 
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USER8000

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Jun 23, 2012
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IIRC,there were some people on here saying Broadwell would be released for mobile in early 2014. It was the same on a few forums when people thought SB would be replaced at the end of 2011 by IB,which again was daft.

The problem is that never made sense as Haswell has just been released anyway,and in the last couple of years,Intel has not replaced a new range in under a year. So middle of next year or a bit later seems the most logical minimum release date for Broadwell mobile CPUs. At the very least OEMs need to sell their inventory of Haswell based products anyway.
 
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Haserath

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Sep 12, 2010
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Sandy Bridge-Jan 2011
Ivy Bridge- Apr 2012
Haswell- Jun 2013

They've been adding months on the year for the last few releases.
 
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JDG1980

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Jul 18, 2013
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strata8 said:
The combination of Haswell Celeron + Bay Trail in Q4 2013-Q1 2014 could really put pressure on Kabini and Temash.
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Will there be any Haswell Celerons? I was under the impression that Intel was going to be transitioning their cheap CPUs to the new Silvermont architecture (and its successors).

Silvermont stacks up well against ARM from what little we know, but AMD's Jaguar cores should at least be competitive, if not superior. Intel seems to be strongest when designing big-core CPUs; the previous Atom architectures were terrible, and Silvermont is taking a lot longer to get to market than Intel would have wanted.
 
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strata8

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JDG1980 said:
Will there be any Haswell Celerons? I was under the impression that Intel was going to be transitioning their cheap CPUs to the new Silvermont architecture (and its successors).

Silvermont stacks up well against ARM from what little we know, but AMD's Jaguar cores should at least be competitive, if not superior. Intel seems to be strongest when designing big-core CPUs; the previous Atom architectures were terrible, and Silvermont is taking a lot longer to get to market than Intel would have wanted.
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There are ULV Haswell Celerons coming in Q4 according to this roadmap here:

&


If this leak here is accurate, and those are base clocks, the 4 core Silvermont-based Pentium J2850 (2.4 GHz, 10W) will have similar CPU performance to the A4-5000 (1.5 GHz, 15W). The Pentium branding suggests a higher price, though. Every Jaguar part would sell for under $65.
 
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