Xanax has a 569,958% markup

[OutHouse]

R & D is expensive, but the shareholders and executives aren't exactly going broke. Should medicine and Healthcare be subject to the whims of capitalism? Is it moral to make money off of the sick?

so americans get fucked in drug prices... that is so wrong.

 

[momeNt]

so americans get fucked in drug prices... that is so wrong.

I saw a graph posted here, pharma runs profits of 20% compared to similar sized industry of 5%.

Considering they are heavily subsidized in the form of patent law, I believe that their profit should be capped, similar to the profit cap that the ACA instituted for insurance companies.

 

[interchange]

That's called a business. I can't say whether this figure is 100% accurate, but a Tufts University study places R&D costs for a new drug around 2.6 billion dollars (http://csdd.tufts.edu/news/complete_story/pr_tufts_csdd_2014_cost_study).

Drug companies are evil, but that isn't why. Plus that cost is generally meaningless. Costs are negotiated with insurers anyway.

But the real thing about these drugs is that all of them except Solvadi are off patent. So the only people paying those prices are people who elect to do so in lieu of generic. If Helmann's mayo suddenly cost $87/jar, would you be outraged? If people really gotta have Helmann's and are willing to pay $87/jar for it, who am I to question their pricing?

Solvadi, well, that's priced differently because they're trying to benefit the developing world and still make money off the drug elsewhere. Controversial, but I think it's on balance admirable given the public health benefit.

 

[interchange]

Forgot to comment on Daraprim. That was a horribly unethical move by a horrible person. The rest of my comments don't apply to this situation.

 

[OutHouse]

Viagra used to be 10 bucks a pill, now since the generic is due to come out in the fall one viagra pill is 40 bucks.

 

[bshole]

Capitalism my ass...

Prescription drugs to treat MS cost (6x inflation), notice how they raise the cost of the old medicine to match the cost of new medicines. Twisted malicious fuckers. They are about as evil and corrupt as illegal drug cartels.

Here is what the free market looks like:

Read the attached link, quite depressing....
http://www.businessinsider.com/pres...ncreases-show-broken-healthcare-system-2015-5

 

[ch33zw1z]

lol bshole, I'm glad you posted that. I have been contemplating finding a graph for illegal drugs...since that's 100% true supply/demand.

 

[senseamp]

GOP wrote a blank check to big pharma with Medicare part D ban on negotiating prices, of course they are going to write the biggest number they can on it.

I guess it's a complete coincidence that prices started going up same year as GOP passed the Medicare expansion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Prescription_Drug,_Improvement,_and_Modernization_Act

 

[superstition]

I dont think monger is arguing that, just pointing out how it is

To what end? I am familiar with the ridiculous "corporations are people" thing but it's still ridiculous beyond belief.

 

[bradly1101]

How is indefinite government protection from competition "capitalism"?

It's not, technically. I'm speaking more broadly about the profit margins. If healthcare follows supply and demand it will only get more expensive as the population ages and demand goes up. Being beholden to share holders creates worse, "more efficient" healthcare with doctors overloaded with patients.

A screen-grab from 5/5/2016

[I guess you can't post Imgur links here anymore, but it was a factoid on the PBS Newshour showing that 58% of doctors would not recommend medicine to their children.]

 

[bradly1101]

Just a gentle reminder that patent and intellectual property are not part of capitalism.

Are the profit margins? Charging based on what the market will bear with soaring demand diminish the very definition of healthcare.

 

[superstition]

Government isn't part of capitalism.

See? The problem is that capitalism eats itself. The drive toward ever-increasing profitability means the drive toward monopoly. Monopolization squelches competition.

What we really have is a form of elaborate "ruse capitalism" — plutocratic socialism disguised by a capitalist veneer.

Our capitalism is like our charity — ruses designed to protect the wealth of the elite.

 

[Dulanic]

Capitalism my ass...

Prescription drugs to treat MS cost (6x inflation), notice how they raise the cost of the old medicine to match the cost of new medicines.

I use tecfidera and the pricing is insane. It started around 55k a year and is up to around 75k in just a couple years. I take another GENERIC pill that costs 5kish for 90 days that costs 1/10th that in Canada. Our pharna industry is a fucking joke.

 

[bshole]

I use tecfidera and the pricing is insane. It started around 55k a year and is up to around 75k in just a couple years. I take another GENERIC pill that costs 5kish for 90 days that costs 1/10th that in Canada. Our pharna industry is a fucking joke.

I would classify it as criminal. I believe the pharma and banking industries are the most corrupt industries in America. Corporate America is in a war with the American middle class and they are winning. They completely own the political process. The level of insanity and plunder we have suffered is probably just a promo to what Trump is going to do. He has stuffed his cabinet with billionaire sharks whose net worth is more than the bottom 1/3 of America combined. This is the scariest cabinet I have ever seen by a country mile.

 

[Darwin333]

I had a friend who perused the dark web drug bazaars from time to time. He showed me a few screen shots in which you could purchase pure alprazolam powder for something like $120 a gram. The community even randomly had it third party GC/MS tested numerous times and every time it came up 99.xx% pure. That's 1,000 1mg doses of pharmaceutical grade alprazolam at $.12 a dose on the black market. This is particularly crazy because most narcotic pharmaceuticals on the black market are more expensive, usually much more, than it costs to legally purchase them with a prescription. Keep in mind that this price includes the manufacturing costs, their profit and a drug dealers markup/profit.

 

[Slew Foot]

once you know the organic chemistry, actually making the molecule is stupidly cheap.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Food for thought.

interesting numbers, wonder where they got them. Sounds suspiciously like they're talking raw material costs only, as average margins in pharma are 10% of revenues or so, more for biologics.

 

[uclaLabrat]

once you know the organic chemistry, actually making the molecule is stupidly cheap.

Scaling the synthesis economically and safely can be a huge part of the game. Process chemists walk on water in my book.

That said, once the synthesis is figure out, it's usually not terribly expensive. What you're paying for (on top of the R&D) is the regulatory and quality apparatus that supports manufacturing. That alone is huge.

 

[superstition]

I had a friend who perused the dark web drug bazaars from time to time. He showed me a few screen shots in which you could purchase pure alprazolam powder for something like $120 a gram. The community even randomly had it third party GC/MS tested numerous times and every time it came up 99.xx% pure. That's 1,000 1mg doses of pharmaceutical grade alprazolam at $.12 a dose on the black market. This is particularly crazy because most narcotic pharmaceuticals on the black market are more expensive, usually much more, than it costs to legally purchase them with a prescription. Keep in mind that this price includes the manufacturing costs, their profit and a drug dealers markup/profit.

Is that before or after the government adds elephant tranquilizer to it like they added methanol to bootlegged ethanol during Prohibition?

: )

 

[MongGrel]

To what end? I am familiar with the ridiculous "corporations are people" thing but it's still ridiculous beyond belief.

I was agreeing with you, you just seemed to miss the point it appears.

 

[Darwin333]

Scaling the synthesis economically and safely can be a huge part of the game. Process chemists walk on water in my book.

That said, once the synthesis is figure out, it's usually not terribly expensive. What you're paying for (on top of the R&D) is the regulatory and quality apparatus that supports manufacturing. That alone is huge.

The first example, Xanax, the R&D has been paid off for a very very long time. Are you saying that the regulatory and quality apparatus merit a 570,000% markup?

 

[zinfamous]

Damn, 570,000%

I should have bought, like, 4 Xanax pills back in 1980 and sold them today. I'd be rich!

I think I could have afforded 4 pills back then with my allowance...
That potential fortune, wasted on god damn GI Joes and Mad Magazines.