X570 motherboards

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
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Is that an Aorus tatoo?
 

DrMrLordX

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With the look on her face I'd have to assume she just farted a gnarly one and is hoping nobody else notices.
Yeah, that facial expression . . . ugh.

Is that an Aorus tatoo?
Probably a temp tattoo. It's common for the booth babes now. At least at those conventions/conferences where they still have booth babes.

edit: for those of you linking videos (@dlerious ), care to offer some Cliff's Notes on those so we don't have to sit through the whole vid? Plus anyone who is hearing-impaired around here might not glean any useful information from the videos.
 

VirtualLarry

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From that Asus edgeup link:

Additionally, most high-end models in our X570 lineup come with a Node connector that allows bidirectional communication between the motherboard and compatible devices. This creates new possibilities like the ability to monitor system accessories or peripherals, or have external devices control board features.
That sounds like an interesting new feature. I wonder what sorts of peripherals will be available for that. I assume an external overclocking controller panel?

I could also see the possibility of a small-ish LCD screen that would interface with this new Node connector, and display temps for CPU/VRM/chipset/DRAM, and fan-speeds, that you could mount on the front of your case, etc.
 
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DrMrLordX

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No video but saw this on some Asus boards
So we're looking at:

Crosshair VIII Formula: 16 phase (60 amps per phase? Y0w)
Crosshair VIII Hero: 14+2 phase (no indication of how it's different from the Formula; it uses IR3555s)
Crosshair VIII Impact: 8+2 phase (70 amps per phase; interesting). Also brags of shorter traces to the DIMM slots. And Mini DTX?
Strix E: 12+4 phase
Strix F: 12+2 phase
Strix I Gaming: 8+2 phase, Mini ITX
TUF Gaming Plus: 12+2 phase
Pro WS Ace, Prime Pro, Prime-P = ???

That's . . .actually a pretty good array of boards there. Tough choice really. Looks like there are 5 VRM configs on these boards: 16 phase, 14+2 phase, 12+4 phase, 12+2 phase, and 8+2 phase.

I skipped Asus in 2017 because I could not get one of their Crosshair VI Hero boards initially, and backed out on the one I ordered from eBay when they started bricking themselves. After the successful Crosshair VII Hero from last year, and the overall good UEFI support for both boards over the last two years, I have to say I'm looking seriously here. Though I've gotta see what MSI has to offer.

edit: looks like the "16 phase" is just 14+2 phase ala C8H, but I could be wrong.

Also, MSI X570 MEG Godlike has 14+4+1 configuration. Not sure that's manifestly better than the 14+2 config on C8H but we'll see. What's the last phase for?
 
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EXCellR8

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Anyone have a count on how many boards have VRM/mosfet water blocks? I would consider buying something with that capability/option again...
 
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I am no expert on vrm’s & power delivery
What is everyone’s thoughts on what is a good board.
I’d like to say I’ll mess with over clocking but I doubt I’ll want to mess with it.
 

dlerious

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Anyone have a count on how many boards have VRM/mosfet water blocks? I would consider buying something with that capability/option again...
The Asrock X570 Aqua at $1000. Don't know if Gigabyte will release X570 Waterforce. You can buy VRM waterblocks or monoblocks for existing motherboards (mainly higher end), I don't see that changing for X570.
 

DrMrLordX

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Anyone have a count on how many boards have VRM/mosfet water blocks? I would consider buying something with that capability/option again...
So far, the ultra-exclusive ASRock board has it, but at that price . . . woof. I'm with @dlerious in that it may be smarter to just buy a 3rd-party VRM/chipset block than to try to get into a board that expensive.

Crosshair VIII Formula also has it. Not sure if anyone else will come out the gate with watercooled board like that. The fix is in, I'm going wc for Matisse, so I am tempted by the Formula . . . I'll bet it's gonna be expensive though.

I am no expert on vrm’s & power delivery
What is everyone’s thoughts on what is a good board.
I’d like to say I’ll mess with over clocking but I doubt I’ll want to mess with it.
Okay, here's what everyone needs to keep in mind.

Set aside the 3900x for a moment.

3800x, 3700x, and below will have basically the same VRM requirements as older Zen products. What I mean to say is . . . core count has a lot to do with how the total power demand for the chip breaks down between voltage and current. More cores = higher current draw, and drawing more current puts more stress on the VRMs. So if you are on 8c today, then the stress to the VRMs within a given power envelope remains the same as it was two years ago. If you are trying to push a 105w 8c Matisse, the current demands are about the same as a 105w Summit Ridge. At least until we bring in AVX2 but let's not get too far out there.

More current draw tends to heat up VRMs. VRMs have a per-phase current limit in their specs. Sometimes mobo manufactuerers are nice enough to tell you that limit. You don't want your VRMs getting close to their current limits, because that makes them run hot, and if they get over 90-100C or higher they can cook. That shortens the life of the board. See overclocked R7 1700x on cheap B350 boards, etc.

The best VRM layout on X370 was the X370 Taichi, with a . . .12+4 setup (6+2 with doubler). They're 60-amp rated. You won't find many VRM configs better with X570 except maybe on one of the MSI boards, I don't know. They might go crazy with more than 16 phases. It looks like the top X570 Asus boards have a similar config to the Taichi (which is far better than what the Crosshair VI Hero had in 2017). X370 Taichi can push over 300W out of the socket. I would imagine that the X570 boards with good 12+4 configs will do about the same . . . maybe more.

So to summarize, if you have an 8c Matisse, you want about the same VRM config that you used on Summit Ridge or Pinnacle Ridge. And looking at X570, it looks to me like anything 8+2 will suffice for regular operation or maybe even mild overclocks. 12+2 will be better because 4 more phases for the CPU. 12+4 gives you an extra two phases for SoC functions/RAM/memory controller. Er, I think.

I would not go with anything less than 8+2 config for an 8c. Fortunately, everything X570 seems to have 8+2 as a minimum (at least in Asus' lineup; you'll have to examine other OEMs to see if they do the same).

3900x is going to tilt its current draw by up to +50% compared to the 3800x within a given power envelope. That's gonna heat up those 8+2 configs quickly. You might be able to get away with it if you stay within the 105w TDP strictly, but any kind of PBO/XFR/overclocking and watch out. You need to spread that current draw out among as many phases as possible. 12+2 or 12+4 configs are preferred for this chip. Eventual 16c Matisse will be even more hardcore.

Also, not all VRMs are made the same. AM4 boards of the past have not only had some low-phase configs like 4+3 and 4+2, but they've also had VRMs with current limits lower than 60 amps. That's bad juju for high-core-count CPUs. Look to someone like Buildzoid (or similar) to give you the skinny on what kind of VRMs are in use on any given board. If you are seeing current limit per phase below 60 amps, you might want to steer clear of that board.

edit: two things of note:

1). To expand on what I said above, current draw also tracks with voltage. More vcore = more current draw, all other things being equal. So Matisse at the same vcore and the same clockspeed as, say, Pinnacle Ridge, may draw LESS current per core just from being able to run at lower voltage. Try it out yourself if you have an older Zen/Zen+ chip. Use HWiNFO64 to track your CPU's core current draw, and move vcore upwards (if you can). Run a bench like Prime95 or whatever. Current draw will go up just from raising vcore.

2). I see conflicting info on X370 Taichi current per phase. Some say 40a, some say 60a.
 
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So far, the ultra-exclusive ASRock board has it, but at that price . . . woof. I'm with @dlerious in that it may be smarter to just buy a 3rd-party VRM/chipset block than to try to get into a board that expensive.

Crosshair VIII Formula also has it. Not sure if anyone else will come out the gate with watercooled board like that. The fix is in, I'm going wc for Matisse, so I am tempted by the Formula . . . I'll bet it's gonna be expensive though.



Okay, here's what everyone needs to keep in mind.

Set aside the 3900x for a moment.

3800x, 3700x, and below will have basically the same VRM requirements as older Zen products. What I mean to say is . . . core count has a lot to do with how the total power demand for the chip breaks down between voltage and current. More cores = higher current draw, and drawing more current puts more stress on the VRMs. So if you are on 8c today, then the stress to the VRMs within a given power envelope remains the same as it was two years ago. If you are trying to push a 105w 8c Matisse, the current demands are about the same as a 105w Summit Ridge. At least until we bring in AVX2 but let's not get too far out there.

More current draw tends to heat up VRMs. VRMs have a per-phase current limit in their specs. Sometimes mobo manufactuerers are nice enough to tell you that limit. You don't want your VRMs getting close to their current limits, because that makes them run hot, and if they get over 90-100C or higher they can cook. That shortens the life of the board. See overclocked R7 1700x on cheap B350 boards, etc.

The best VRM layout on X370 was the X370 Taichi, with a . . .12+4 setup (6+2 with doubler). They're 60-amp rated. You won't find many VRM configs better with X570 except maybe on one of the MSI boards, I don't know. They might go crazy with more than 16 phases. It looks like the top X570 Asus boards have a similar config to the Taichi (which is far better than what the Crosshair VI Hero had in 2017). X370 Taichi can push over 300W out of the socket. I would imagine that the X570 boards with good 12+4 configs will do about the same . . . maybe more.

So to summarize, if you have an 8c Matisse, you want about the same VRM config that you used on Summit Ridge or Pinnacle Ridge. And looking at X570, it looks to me like anything 8+2 will suffice for regular operation or maybe even mild overclocks. 12+2 will be better because 4 more phases for the CPU. 12+4 gives you an extra two phases for SoC functions/RAM/memory controller. Er, I think.

I would not go with anything less than 8+2 config for an 8c. Fortunately, everything X570 seems to have 8+2 as a minimum (at least in Asus' lineup; you'll have to examine other OEMs to see if they do the same).

3900x is going to tilt its current draw by up to +50% compared to the 3800x within a given power envelope. That's gonna heat up those 8+2 configs quickly. You might be able to get away with it if you stay within the 105w TDP strictly, but any kind of PBO/XFR/overclocking and watch out. You need to spread that current draw out among as many phases as possible. 12+2 or 12+4 configs are preferred for this chip. Eventual 16c Matisse will be even more hardcore.

Also, not all VRMs are made the same. AM4 boards of the past have not only had some low-phase configs like 4+3 and 4+2, but they've also had VRMs with current limits lower than 60 amps. That's bad juju for high-core-count CPUs. Look to someone like Buildzoid (or similar) to give you the skinny on what kind of VRMs are in use on any given board. If you are seeing current limit per phase below 60 amps, you might want to steer clear of that board.
So 12+2 or better without going insane is a solid way to go correct?
 

VirtualLarry

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Strix E: 12+4 phase
I'm really looking at that one. Not the least because I built my 2700 rig around a B450-F Strix board, and I liked it, as well as the fact that the X570 Strix E has AX wifi and 2.5GbE (RealTek) too. Plus, I think 2x or 3x NVMe PCI-E 4.0 sockets. (My B450-F Strix has two PCI-E 3.0 x4 NVMe sockets, running in RAID-0 right now, just for kicks.)
 

gorobei

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So 12+2 or better without going insane is a solid way to go correct?
more or less.
you can ignore the X"+2" part of the vrm count, that is the SOC vrm which is mostly for igpu and some other things. anyone running a dedicated gpu isnt going to be using those 2 phases. and you kinda have to be cautious when it comes to marketing calling a board "12" phase, some board makers got creative with the counting of phases on some of the intel boards when they included the soc/igpu phases + the ddr vrm phases + the usb3 typeC pass-thru phase on the gpu pcie slot. so you kinda need an actual review to know if it is a [true 8/12/16 phase] or a [4/6/8 with doublers] or a [5phase +2soc +2mem +1 typeC = 10] phase sort of deal.

the good news is that gamersnexus got a bunch of pcb photos from computex that they will be handing off to Buildzoid, who already has photos/data for the entire gigabyte lineup, some of MSI, and a few from other vendors.

GN typically commissions BZ to do a general rundown of most of the boards near black friday and BZ is thinking of just doing all the boards in a uber mega ramble. unfortunately a clear recommendation isnt likely to be available prior to launch date if you have to buy it day1.
 

DrMrLordX

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So 12+2 or better without going insane is a solid way to go correct?
That's a solid bet. The implications of the extra two phases for the SoC on higher-end boards is something we don't know much about yet. The voltage plane(s) for the I/O chip should be fed from those VRMs, so if you are into RAM OC then you might opt for the 12+4 versions; that being said, the board that Asus is pushing as a possible record-breaker for RAM OC speeds on air is an 8+2 config.

I'm really looking at that one. Not the least because I built my 2700 rig around a B450-F Strix board, and I liked it, as well as the fact that the X570 Strix E has AX wifi and 2.5GbE (RealTek) too. Plus, I think 2x or 3x NVMe PCI-E 4.0 sockets. (My B450-F Strix has two PCI-E 3.0 x4 NVMe sockets, running in RAID-0 right now, just for kicks.)
I'm surprised by how many boards in their lineup have at least 12+2 phases. Wish they had prices listed like Gigabyte.
 
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more or less.
you can ignore the X"+2" part of the vrm count, that is the SOC vrm which is mostly for igpu and some other things. anyone running a dedicated gpu isnt going to be using those 2 phases. and you kinda have to be cautious when it comes to marketing calling a board "12" phase, some board makers got creative with the counting of phases on some of the intel boards when they included the soc/igpu phases + the ddr vrm phases + the usb3 typeC pass-thru phase on the gpu pcie slot. so you kinda need an actual review to know if it is a [true 8/12/16 phase] or a [4/6/8 with doublers] or a [5phase +2soc +2mem +1 typeC = 10] phase sort of deal.

the good news is that gamersnexus got a bunch of pcb photos from computex that they will be handing off to Buildzoid, who already has photos/data for the entire gigabyte lineup, some of MSI, and a few from other vendors.

GN typically commissions BZ to do a general rundown of most of the boards near black friday and BZ is thinking of just doing all the boards in a uber mega ramble. unfortunately a clear recommendation isnt likely to be available prior to launch date if you have to buy it day1.
Thanks, I like the buildzoid guys passion about the subject but I hate how it’s always video....long video.
I wish the dude would give a simple 90 second summary.
 

DrMrLordX

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I just wanted to add to my post above about mobo phase configurations. MSI does currently boast a 14+4+1 config on the MEG X570 Godlike.

ASRock's two boards they're showing off on their site (X570 Taichi and Phantom Gaming) look to have the same old 12+4 config from the X370 Taichi. No idea what the Aqua has on it.

Biostar is using their old 8+4 phase setup on their Racing X570GT8.

Gigabyte's Aorus Extreme apparently has a 14+2 config, using 70amp VRMs? Interesting. Aorus Master is only 12+2 with unlisted current limits. Aorus PRO seems to have the same config. Aorus Elite is also 12+2 with (apparently) lower current limits per phase compared to the Pro/Master. My guess is Master and Pro are 60a, while Elite is 40-50a per phase.

Should be interesting to see who wins the VRM wars. ASRock seems to have thrown in the towel. Right now it's between Gigabyte and their 14+2 config (70a) and MSI with at funky 14+4+1 (??? amps) layout. The C8F and C8H from Asus also look pretty competitive with 14+2 configs (60a). I would give it to Gigabyte if that particular board didn't cost $599. Almost as ridiculous as the Aqua. I am disappointed that Biostar didn't attempt to one-up ASRock with a 14+2 config for ~$200 (X370 Taichi was a shocker in 2017 with 12+4 for $200).

Not sure having two extra phases in the secondary is really going to matter, either. Asus has it for their Strix-E and I have no idea why that is their only board shown to date with that config.
 

VirtualLarry

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Not sure having two extra phases in the secondary is really going to matter, either. Asus has it for their Strix-E and I have no idea why that is their only board shown to date with that config.
Well, RAM OC should benefit from the extra 2 phases on the vSoC VRM voltage plane, I would think. Four sticks of DDR4-4400 or faster, maybe they would need four phases?
 

gorobei

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Well, RAM OC should benefit from the extra 2 phases on the vSoC VRM voltage plane, I would think. Four sticks of DDR4-4400 or faster, maybe they would need four phases?
ram slots already have their own separate vrm, most of the setups are more than sufficient for overclocks (Vmem isnt supposed to go much beyond 1.2v ish) and some midrange are overbuilt withh 2 times the number of mosfets/inductors needed.
 

DrMrLordX

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Well, RAM OC should benefit from the extra 2 phases on the vSoC VRM voltage plane, I would think. Four sticks of DDR4-4400 or faster, maybe they would need four phases?
Maybe. Their RAM OC champ board is 8+4. But their top-of-the-line boards (Formula and Hero) only have 2 phases in the secondary, and I'm sure those will support OC up to DDR4-4666 or higher with day-one UEFI. It really shouldn't require a lot of phases in the secondary just to get clean power to the I/O die or RAM. Hefty secondary is more for iGPUs. Usually.

And yeah what @gorobei said.
 

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