X2 4400+ Overclocking - Need some help

[Warrior1986]

I just swapped out my FX-55 for a new x2 4400+. I want to overclock it because doing this swap I lost 600MHz (I just increased the multiplier on the 55 to 14 to get 2.8GHz and stock the 4400+ is at 2.2Ghz, so big difference).

I saw the results I got from 3dMark06, while my CPU score went up substantially, my graphics scores actually went down, no doubt to the MHz loss and it bottling my 8800GTS.

So here's my system:
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ - Newest Revision with 89 Watts TDP instead of 110 Watts
2GB Corsair TWINX1024-3200XLPRO - Running at 2-2-2-5
GeForce 8800GTS OC'ed to 621 core / 972 memory
2 Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB Serial ATA 10,000RPM Hard Drives - Running in RAID 0
CPU Cooler is a Zalman CNPS-7000B-Cu LED - All copper, 92mm fan, yadda yadda yadda
Artic Silver 5 - Already started burning in the CPU with Prime's torture test to get the silver to spread everywhere into the microscoping pores and whatnot. I understand it takes a few days before it will reach its ideal state and I should see the temps drop by maybe 1-2 degrees C?

In the clocking guide stickied at the top, it says to only do the first step for HTT/FSB if your motherboard has locks. Then says that Sata 1 and 2 are not locked on some, use 3 and 4.

I'm running my RAID not on the Silicon controller but the other one (with the black ports on the mobo) in slots 1 and 2. Do I need to worry about this and have to switch them? And if so, will I have any problems or have to reconfigure anything? I think I have it set so that everything is disabled with RAID on the silicon and only ports 1 and 2 are on. Basically, I don't want to have to reformat or anything like that since I don't have all my things down here at school.

Besides that whole problem, any other advice? Basically, here's the gist of what I know so far.

Max HTT/FSB Step - Assuming I have no problems with this whole motherboard lock thing, seems easy. Take down the CPU multiplier, and keep bumping up the till it locks. Then pull the reset jumper and go back down 5%. But what is it here I'm exactly bumping? Is there something in the BIOS that says HTT/FSB?

max Chip - Not sure about the voltage thing. I think according to CPU-Z my CPU is getting around 1.35-1.36. Should I be bumping this up? Rest seems easy. Except how do I test Prime at 95%? (I'm not sure what that means, I usually either run the torture test or the benchmark and that's all.)

Max memory - This one I'm not sure about at all, meaning I don't understand the procedure.

Oh, I guess one last thing. I tested with Prime on both cores and the highest temp I ever hit was 45 degrees C. While idleing, the temp was at 32 degrees C. Just thought I'd put this here in case it matters. Compared to my old FX-55 which was around 38 Idle and up to 53-55 full load, this chip runs WAY cooler and I love that. Thanks guys!

 

[BlueWeasel]

This may help

 

[Warrior1986]

That was helpful with some of the memory stuff, thanks. Still hope to get help with some of the other stuff I asked about.

Also, in that link, it said that for the RAM Timings, the 5th number should be set to 1T. Mine has always been set to 2T, will changing that work on my system?

Also, I was wondering what were some typical overclocks people got with this particular CPU and memory? It'd be nice to know how far I should be able to go and still have some room leftover. I guess I'd like to hear about both, but especially the RAM since there are 3 factors which affect it: the timings, the HT, and the RAM divider. If I knew what was the average speed people had this Corsair running at, it would help with setting the divider and HT. I have heard that this memory should be able to be overclocked rather well.

 

[Warrior1986]

I thought I would add in what info I pulled from CPU-Z, which may be helpful.

Name - AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+
Code Name - Toledo
Specification - AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+
Package - Socket 939
Family/Model/Stepping - F.3.2
Extended Family/Model - F.23
Brand ID - 5
Core Stepping - JH-E6
Technology - 90 nm
Core Speed - 2211.4 MHz
Multiplier x Bus speed - 11.0 x 201.0 MHz
HT Link speed - 1005.2 MHz
Stock frequency - 2200 MHz

The RAM is Corsair CMX512-3200XLPRO. I'm running 4 sticks of this. Running at 200 MHz, timings currently 2-2-2-5 2T but I'm wondering if I should change to 1T. Also, the FSB : DRAM says CPU/11. I'm guessing this is the RAM divider?

Also, I kept reading about TCCD memory and have a somewhat better idea, but still no idea what it actually is. But on the list found at http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/11329, I think I may have TCCD memory because under confirmed Samsung TCCD, is listed Corsair PC3200XL. Does this mean I will be able to overclock higher than usual?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

With 4 sticks of ram you have to run 2T, 1T will not work.

 

[Warrior1986]

Ok, thanks for that info. Anyone else?

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Warrior1986
max Chip - Not sure about the voltage thing. I think according to CPU-Z my CPU is getting around 1.35-1.36. Should I be bumping this up? Rest seems easy. Except how do I test Prime at 95%? (I'm not sure what that means, I usually either run the torture test or the benchmark and that's all.)

Overclocking a processor requires more voltage (vcore), period. Well, unless you have an Opteron, and aren't trying to go above ~2.5 Ghz. And you don't test with Prime 95, you test with Orthos. Run it at either a Priority of 7 or 8, and use the blend test.

 

[Warrior1986]

Ahh, thanks. I was reading about Orthos and how it was an updated version of Prime95.

Anyone else? I really need to know about the mobo locks before I can do any overclocking since I dont want any data to be corrupted on my RAID setup.

 

[myocardia]

Your motherboard has PCI, PCI-E, & SATA locks, like all nForce4 SLI motherboards.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Yep, that board has locks on all sata ports. I ran that board heavily overclocked for two years and no problems. Be careful overclocking ram on that board, you can corrupt your bios and or HDD pretty easily if pushing it too far.

 

[Warrior1986]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Yep, that board has locks on all sata ports. I ran that board heavily overclocked for two years and no problems. Be careful overclocking ram on that board, you can corrupt your bios and or HDD pretty easily if pushing it too far.

Wow, thanks much GuitarDaddy. So that means I can just leave everything where it is? Is there anything to look at in the BIOS? The only lock that I saw was I believe for the PCI Bus. The options were Auto, To Cpu, and 33.333 MHz.

Seems that you have plenty of experience with the A8N-SLI Deluxe board. But what should I look out for when OC'ing the RAM? I know to check with Memtest at every step, but is there any set limit the board can take? I know by reading quite a bit by now, that my RAM should be able to be heavily overclocked. Will my mobo be the limiting factor in this case?

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Warrior1986
Wow, thanks much GuitarDaddy. So that means I can just leave everything where it is? Is there anything to look at in the BIOS? The only lock that I saw was I believe for the PCI Bus. The options were Auto, To Cpu, and 33.333 MHz.

33.3 Mhz is what a PCI bus is supposed to run at. Set it to 33.3, and forget about it.

 

[Warrior1986]

Ok, I haven't posted in a while so this will be a huge update with the question at the end about the big problem.

So I proceeded on to the second step, seeing what is the max MHz I can squeeze out of the CPU. Well, my expectations were WAY surpassed. My goal was to just get 2.6 GHz to match my old FX-55: yup, passed that. So then I said ok, I will dance a happy jig on my bed if I can get 2.8 GHz which is what I was running my FX-55 at: yea, went past that too. I hit a brick wall at 1.40V of 2937 MHz (267 x 11) :Q :Q So am I more than ecstatic right now. But then there's the problem.....

Messing with the volts was fine up until that final 1.40V. I bumped it up from 1.35V which let me bump the FSB up from 261 to 267. However, that's where the fun stopped.

I tried going to 1.425V and everything was fine. But I run Coretemp and it says voltage was at 1.40V. I was like uhh ok. So I try CPU-Z: same thing, 1.40V. Then I try PC-Probe and same thing again. So now I'm just confused. I go back to BIOS to check I set it to 1.425 and I did. I check the hardware monitor and even that says 1.40. Fine.

I go up to 1.45V. And omg, the EXACT same thing. All 3 programs report it is at 1.40 along with the BIOS. Now, I'm really getting worried.

So last try, 1.475V. Here's where it gets REALLY wierd. Coretemp is reporting 1.375 whereas CPU-Z and PC-Probe say 1.5. I check BIOS and that says 1.5. Just for the hell of it, I try out my testing. Sure enough, I go past the 267 to 270 but by the time I hit that, my core temp was reading 58-59 :Q So at that point I safely concluded that is just WAY too much and I'm not gaining anything for the HUGE temp gain (at 1.40V at 267 x 11 the temp didn't ever hit 50)

I turn to you guys now. I wonder if there is anything to gain in that 1.4 to 1.45 range (maybe get a few more MHz on the FSB without the temp gains I got going above 1.45V) , but I can't find out as it stands right now. What the hell is going on? Why can't I set to anything in between 1.4 and 1.45 even though I went up past that?

 

[Zenoth]

I know some people won't agree with me, but X2's aren't good over-clockers, actually. Average at best. That you managed to push a 4400+ by 600Mhz is already a great feat. I can barely make mine stable at 2.5Ghz, it's at 2.4Ghz right now, at 4800+ speeds, and is 100% stable, but if I try other methods, different voltages, change the Memory ratio, HTT speed, change the multiplier, RAM voltage, etc, it doesn't do any good. It might be my Memory though, I won't ever touch OCZ again. I miss my old Corsair, I could push a 3500+ Clawhammer at 2.9Ghz on air with my Corsair (although it was stable it became very hot and I had to decrease the OC).

I'm no expert at OC'ing, but I know more than the mere basics, I've OC'ed 4 chips so far in two years all stable, except my actual 4400+ stuck at 2.46Ghz and no more or else all hell breaks loose. I'm quite surprised by your OC. You should stay at 2.8Ghz if it's stable there. Those X2's are still good performers, and you managed to push one quite far already. Stay there and enjoy the extra performance that you aren't supposed to get at stock speeds. I know how "addicting" OC'ing can become sometimes. It comes down to a moment where you have to accept the extra gains and force yourself not to try "for more". I know that a GPU and a CPU is never OC'ed enough to our tastes. We target some reasonable speeds first, usually reach them, make things stable, then we say "bah, why not, let's try some more" and then that's where it's starting to screw up. That's exactly where you need to stop, or it gets frustrating and you're questioning your own OC'ing skills.

 

[Warrior1986]

Yea, I'll be completely honest. My goal was to hit 2.6 GHz so that I could feel really good about only spending $180 on this chip and getting in return a FX-60 that ran cooler and more efficient. I hit that without breaking a sweat. So I thought I'd try for 2.8 since that's what I was running my FX-55 at and I could recover the performance loss that I noticed in all my benchmarks (Loosing 600 MHz is significant as I saw in all my benchmarks, it really choked my 8800GTS). Hit that again relatively easy.

So then I was like, maybe I stumbled upon a "golden" stepping of the X2 4400+. So I wanted to see what WAS the limit of this chip. Considering the fact that I basically hit 2.94 GHz on air (not even top of the line air, as I'm using a Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu. The norm I see now a days is the Zalman 9500 or Tuniq) I think I just may have. I mean, I don't often see a CPU overclock of 33%.

My question to you is what kind of HSF are you using? I'm not as experienced in terms of what CPUs can go how far as I'm still learning, but I think a 10% OC isn't all that your X2 4400+ has got. Unless you got some REALLY bad stepping of it i.e. the infamous CABGE of the San Diego cores but I haven't heard of anything that bad on the Toledo cores.

I'm gonna make a new thread soon to post up the final results and how I got to them along with all the official tests. SuperPi, 3DMark06, SiSoftware Sandra, etc. I won't say any specifics, especially what my X2 is running at right now, but I can say one thing.

My 3DMark06 score when I first put in the X2 was 8118 (That's stock CPU at 2.2 GHz and my 8800 GTS running at 630 core/970 memory). The result of this OC project?

NINE SIX ZERO FIVE. Yes, you read that right. 9605. Almost 1500 points gained. Stay tuned.

 

[Zenoth]

I'm on the stock HSF, but I tried two other ones I borrowed from a friend. Not only that but I paid a guy I know at my local store $20 for three days so he could find a good OC'ing spot. That guy builds systems all day long, three days per week, since four years, that's his job, and he builds OC'ed systems on-demand, as a personal hobby, and he never had any calls back at him telling him that his systems fail. He had a look at my system and his conclusion was that the Memory is limiting the whole potential (Infineon/Aeneon chips), and to never touch that OCZ category ever again. But I told him that to avoid such a scenario again I will simply go with Corsair. It's a lost cause in my case anyway, but it doesn't matter much, because this summer I will upgrade my system anew, and I will perhaps go with Barcelona.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Zenoth

Sorry to hear of your overclocking troubles, but ram should never prevent you from overclocking on the A64 platform. Just run a lower divider, ramspeed is of little importance to performance on A64's.

And if you wanted to overclock the ram you should have done a little more research. The OCZ platinum is good low latency ram but it's well known that it does not overclock at all. If you wanted to overclock the ram you should have gotten platinum rev. 2's or many of the other OCZ flavors that do overclock well. To categorically dismiss all ram from a very good company like OCZ based on your own lack of research is silly. When buying ram there are always tradeoffs, with the platinum EL you get very low latency at a relatively cheap price but you give up overclock ability.

 

[s44]

Right, and all 4400+s aren't created equal. Looks like you got a bad stepping.

What stepping did the OP get?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: Warrior1986
max Chip - Not sure about the voltage thing. I think according to CPU-Z my CPU is getting around 1.35-1.36. Should I be bumping this up? Rest seems easy. Except how do I test Prime at 95%? (I'm not sure what that means, I usually either run the torture test or the benchmark and that's all.)

Overclocking a processor requires more voltage (vcore), period. Well, unless you have an Opteron, and aren't trying to go above ~2.5 Ghz. And you don't test with Prime 95, you test with Orthos. Run it at either a Priority of 7 or 8, and use the blend test.

actually CPU class has nothing to do with overclocking. The reason why most opty's clocked well is because they were mostly on good steppings.

Its more on steppings vs. Class.

My Opty would kill a FX class any day of the week.
Here incase anyone calls shins.

Also yes voltage has a major part, but most people were ocing X2 3800+ on stock voltages up to 2.6ghz.

I heard you cant do this anymore on the new X2 3800+, but im just letting you know that not all the time vcore is required to oc.

OH, the 4400+ 65W TDP will probably do 2.6ghz on stock voltages as well.



*i should add this in, its not recomended to go higher then 1.45V on your Vcore unless you got a heafty cooler. Also its not recomended to push 1.5V unless your on Water.

 

[Warrior1986]

Originally posted by: s44
Right, and all 4400+s aren't created equal. Looks like you got a bad stepping.

What stepping did the OP get?

I got stepping LCBIE.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: myocardia
Overclocking a processor requires more voltage (vcore), period. Well, unless you have an Opteron, and aren't trying to go above ~2.5 Ghz. And you don't test with Prime 95, you test with Orthos. Run it at either a Priority of 7 or 8, and use the blend test.

actually CPU class has nothing to do with overclocking. The reason why most opty's clocked well is because they were mostly on good steppings.

Its more on steppings vs. Class.

My Opty would kill a FX class any day of the week.
Here incase anyone calls shins.

Also yes voltage has a major part, but most people were ocing X2 3800+ on stock voltages up to 2.6ghz.

I heard you cant do this anymore on the new X2 3800+, but im just letting you know that not all the time vcore is required to oc.

You say that "it's more on steppings vs. class", but as an example, you give us a screenshot of your Opteron? I would have sworn that was what my example said. And, in case you were wondering, all X2's and Venices or San Diego's require voltage, assuming you want much of an overclock, and stability. Kind of like how your Opteron needs more voltage, to remain stable.:laugh:

 

[Boyo]

I would be estatic that you were able to OC your 4400+ so far. The 4400+ is not a great overclocker and I can just make 2.64GHz being stable. Anything else, and I hit the wall. So nice job on your OC.

 

[Zenoth]

^
See ? I told you guys. A lot of X2 consumers trying to OC em' meet a wall between 2.5 and 2.6, if you manage to go above 2.6 stable then bravo.

 

[s44]

Are you using the 110W version? Because my 89W is Orthos stable at 2.64 on stock volts with no problem whatsoever, and only because I haven't bothered trying to push it further.

 

[ajemm]

I have both an 89W X2 4400+ and a Opteron 175. They both are CCBWE. From everything I've read, this stepping doesn't clock very high. I would have to agree as I have yet to get either one of them stable at 2.6 GHz. Oh well. I'm happy at 2.5... for now.