X2 3800+ - three questions before I buy

[mset]

On the slippery upward slope of my first build and I have reached X2 3800+-land. This is the processor that will go into my new computer. I have the best prices I can find in Canada. It will be NIB Retail chip unless I can find one on here that I am very comfortable with. I have 3 questions first

1. E6 stepping - everyone says I should have it. If I buy a NIB retail X2 3800+ today, will it be E6? How can I check without plugging it in?

2. I have learned that some X2 3800+ have the Manchester core and some have the Toledo core. Can you tell me which I should look for or if I have a choice?

3. This is not a dis against X2 3800+... Here is a cut and paste from one of the many X2 3800+ threads here at AT. I just want to know what it means to me as a buyer today

"Re: X2 3800+... ..one good thing about the Opteron 165 is that it shouldn't have the slowdown bug that plagued some of the X2s..."

Now, what exactly does that mean and should it affect my choice of which 3800+ to get?

One day soon I will be able to post here that I have all my components, I promise. So far I have bought the following, all with the help of AT members and most directly from AT members

1 GB OCZ Premier PC3200 2.5-3-3-7

1 WD Raptor 74 GB HD

1 WD Dual Option 120 GB USB 2.0 external HD

1 Enermax Noisetaker 420W PSU

1 Matrox G450 Dual Head Video card

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

1. E6 stepping - everyone says I should have it. If I buy a NIB retail X2 3800+ today, will it be E6? How can I check without plugging it in?

All new AMD processors are E6. It was updated around the time Venice came out.

2. I have learned that some X2 3800+ have the Manchester core and some have the Toledo core. Can you tell me which I should look for or if I have a choice?

Manchester has 2x512KB cache, Toledo has 2x1MB cache. You probably won't notice any difference between the two.

As for the slowdown bug? I don't know anything about it.

 

[Unkno]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
1. E6 stepping - everyone says I should have it. If I buy a NIB retail X2 3800+ today, will it be E6? How can I check without plugging it in?

All new AMD processors are E6. It was updated around the time Venice came out.

2. I have learned that some X2 3800+ have the Manchester core and some have the Toledo core. Can you tell me which I should look for or if I have a choice?

Manchester has 2x512KB cache, Toledo has 2x1MB cache. You probably won't notice any difference between the two.

As for the slowdown bug? I don't know anything about it.

actually no. The X2 3800+ contains both the E4 and the E6 (IIRC, the E4 are true manchesters and the E6 are higher end cpus that fail at running at that level). There shouldn't be any difference among them (excpet some rumours about E6 overclocking higher), you would be able to buy it in retail boxes. It doesn't really matter whether you get E4 or E6, I have an E4 manchester and it overclocks fairly well (2.5Ghz stock voltage, 2.6Ghz 1.4, 2.7Ghz at 1.5)

The X2 3800+ ONLY has 2x512KB but some of them are also using toledo cores (with 512kb of the cache disabled) from higher 4400+ and 4800+ that couldn't run at that level.

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
All new AMD processors are E6. It was updated around the time Venice came out.

Manchester has 2x512KB cache, Toledo has 2x1MB cache. You probably won't notice any difference between the two.

As for the slowdown bug? I don't know anything about it.

Ok, A.G. - that helps a lot, thank you. Re: the slowdown thing, I realize that this is a little lame, bringing this up without any backup or references. It is something I cut and pasted into my 'research document' of snippets that I was creating.

Good news about the E6, and it's definitely the Manchester I am going to go for, although I'd like that bigger cache just to say I have it

 

[Unkno]

Originally posted by: mset

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy
All new AMD processors are E6. It was updated around the time Venice came out.

Manchester has 2x512KB cache, Toledo has 2x1MB cache. You probably won't notice any difference between the two.

As for the slowdown bug? I don't know anything about it.

Ok, A.G. - that helps a lot, thank you. Re: the slowdown thing, I realize that this is a little lame, bringing this up without any backup or references. It is something I cut and pasted into my 'research document' of snippets that I was creating.

Good news about the E6, and it's definitely the Manchester I am going to go for, although I'd like that bigger cache just to say I have it

I'm 99% sure there is no such thing as the "slowdown bug". The person you quoted from probably meant about the problem that could be solved with the performance hotfix from microsoft and amd drivers

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: Unkno
actually no. The X2 3800+ contains both the E4 and the E6. There shouldn't be any difference among them (excpet some rumours about E6 overclocking higher), you would be able to buy it in retail boxes.

The X2 3800+ ONLY has 2x512KB but some of them are also using toledo cores (with 512kb of the cache disabled) from higher 4400+ and 4800+ that couldn't run at that level.

Aha! Ok... this is why I posted, to get the best info I could. So Unkno, can I check by looking at the box which stepping I am getting?

Also, if you were buying an X2 3800+ today would you

a) search out a Toledo core

b) avoid the Toledo core or

c) would you not care one way or another?

Gee.. I wonder if that disabled 512 K of cache can be enabled!! I did know that some 512 K cache chips were originally 1 MB caches with half disabled.

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: Unkno
I'm 99% sure there is no such thing as the "slowdown bug". The person you quoted from probably meant about the problem that could be solved with the performance hotfix from microsoft and amd drivers

Ok... I have this page bookmarked for when I do my build

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81429

 

[Unkno]

Originally posted by: mset

Originally posted by: Unkno
actually no. The X2 3800+ contains both the E4 and the E6. There shouldn't be any difference among them (excpet some rumours about E6 overclocking higher), you would be able to buy it in retail boxes.

The X2 3800+ ONLY has 2x512KB but some of them are also using toledo cores (with 512kb of the cache disabled) from higher 4400+ and 4800+ that couldn't run at that level.

Aha! Ok... this is why I posted, to get the best info I could. So Unkno, can I check by looking at the box which stepping I am getting?

Also, if you were buying an X2 3800+ today would you

a) search out a Toledo core

b) avoid the Toledo core or

c) would you not care one way or another?

Gee.. I wonder if that disabled 512 K of cache can be enabled!! I did know that some 512 K cache chips were originally 1 MB caches with half disabled.

Nope, as far as i know of, they cannot be enabled. There has been countless 5 page threads on the forum about whether toledo or manchester cores are better on the X2 3800+. The results were that there is virtually no difference among them. Some even argued that the extra transistors from the disabled cache increased heat...there's not much you need to avoid or search out for X2, it all depends on luck, no stepping that i know of...if you really want an X2, go for it, but it seems that the opterons might have a higher chance of being able to overclock higher.

 

[Markfw]

I think I have both, and it doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Unkno]

Originally posted by: mset

Originally posted by: Unkno
I'm 99% sure there is no such thing as the "slowdown bug". The person you quoted from probably meant about the problem that could be solved with the performance hotfix from microsoft and amd drivers

Ok... I have this page bookmarked for when I do my build

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81429

yup, that's right.....if after installing the amd patch and the hotfix from ms and you STILL have a problem with gaming (VERY unlikely...) then follow other steps here

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think I have both, and it doesn't seem to matter.

Errr.. is that text in your sig a misprint? It shows something like 7 high end procs. Nicest sig I have seen on here!

Seriously, wow... ok, I am going to take your word on that, given what I see in your sig.

Unkno, thanks for taking the time. Looks like I can just wander down to my local store and pick one up. To tell the truth, I am not going to be overclocking this chip at first and this is actually why it was suggested to me that I go with the X2 3800+ as opposed to the Opty 165 - better performance at stock, right out of the box (or so some have said). Also, I have had some corroboration of the fact that most mobo manufatcurers don't necessarily support you if you stick an Opty in their mobo. I know for you guys this isn't a huge deal, but since this is my first build, I am trying to eliminate every possible small glitch that could occur.

Thanks again.

 

[Mik3y]

Originally posted by: mset

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think I have both, and it doesn't seem to matter.

Errr.. is that text in your sig a misprint? It shows something like 7 high end procs. Nicest sig I have seen on here!

Seriously, wow... ok, I am going to take your word on that, given what I see in your sig.

Unkno, thanks for taking the time. Looks like I can just wander down to my local store and pick one up. To tell the truth, I am not going to be overclocking this chip at first and this is actually why it was suggested to me that I go with the X2 3800+ as opposed to the Opty 165 - better performance at stock, right out of the box (or so some have said). Also, I have had some corroboration of the fact that most mobo manufatcurers don't necessarily support you if you stick an Opty in their mobo. I know for you guys this isn't a huge deal, but since this is my first build, I am trying to eliminate every possible small glitch that could occur.

Thanks again.

not a misprint. that's just his son's college money being put to good use.

 

[Markfw]

I just set one up tonight for my sons friend. We upped the vcore to 1.4, and set it to 240 166 divider, running 2400 on the stock aluminum HSF. No reason not to try for a mild OC. Took me 5 minutes. We didn;t even try to go higher. Runs 39c load (not both cores full though, haven't had time to play that much)

And I have 12 comps total, sig is just some. They are my sons lan parties.

Edit: my son attends Portland state, and has a 3.0 average, so I don;t worry about that. My house is paid off, so its easy to pay for toys.

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I just set one up tonight for my sons friend. We upped the vcore to 1.4, and set it to 240 166 divider, running 2400 on the stock aluminum HSF. No reason not to try for a mild OC. Took me 5 minutes. We didn;t even try to go higher. Runs 39c load (not both cores full though, haven't had time to play that much)

And I have 12 comps total, sig is just some. They are my sons lan parties.

Edit my son attends Portland state, and has a 3.0 average, so I don;t worry about that. My house is paid off, so its easy to pay for toys.

Wow... it is actually kind of cool to think that I may be able to OC this chip once I get it all set up and running stable. 2400 would be amazing. I can even imagine going for some better cooling just to keep things cool. This is a whole other discussion though...If I pull the HSF off a Retail chip and install a Zalman, that's it for the warranty, right?

Cannot wait to get this chip.

This game isn't addictive at all, is it.

 

[Furen]

No, you can use any heatsink you want. Overclocking would void your warranty but that doesn't mean its dangerous or anything. Pulling off the IHS (integrated heat spreader) is voids your warranty because its a physical modification of the CPU.

 

[mset]

Originally posted by: Furen
No, you can use any heatsink you want. Overclocking would void your warranty but that doesn't mean its dangerous or anything. Pulling off the IHS (integrated heat spreader) is voids your warranty because its a physical modification of the CPU.

Aha. Ok, thanks for that Furen.