X-Fi positional improvement over Audigy?

[vbuggy]

Hello Everyone. Quick question for those who have used both with headphones. I have an Audigy 2ZS at the moment, and as my gaming phones I use an electrostatic headphone from Sennheiser known as the Orpheus. The phones are very good with music, but I just don't get good 3D positional cues with the Audigy. Since these are among the best you can get, I doubt it's the fault of the phones. Perhaps I'm expecting too much but frequently I find it difficult to immediately tell front from back. I notice that the X-Fi has a new headphone mode and was wondering whether people have noticed a major change in positional cues? Thanks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Welcome to AT.

I haven't heard the X-Fi personally, but with a headphone like the Orpheus, go for it. Get the $400 X-Fi while you're at it for the better DACs even.

The surround headphone feature seems like the best thing X-Fi has going for it.

 

[vbuggy]

Anyone else actually heard the two?

 

[dexvx]

Head them? Yea.

On an Orpheus? No.

 

[GOREGRINDER]

hear it everyday and love it,..slaughters my old audigy2zs and of course my older audigy,...like with any soundcard you gotta play with the settings in the control panel a bit for the speakers/headphones your sporting,..but after that its seriously sick in games and movies when you find what your speakers like.i myself havnt used headphones on em at all just speakers,but ive been very pleased overall for the past couple months er so,...im honestly waiting for the winxp pro x64 drivers to be released so i can reinstal my copy(had to reinstal xp sp2 for the sound card )

 

[vbuggy]

It doesn't have to be on my phones, but in general is the CMSS (or whatever it's called) significantly more convincing on the X-Fi? I don't listen to music on the PC which the ZS is currently installed in, so things beyond the positional accuracy / in-game benefits don't interest me from the soundcard.

 

[GOREGRINDER]

as far as in game benifits you will notice them right away(i recommend a clean windows instal once the card is placed or a serious creative driver cleaning from the old)the x-fi is more spatial for sure,..no doubt there,everything is much more crisp and defined,and your games will feel more responsive from it as well after spending a little time in one yoru familiar with.from the audigy2zs every sound seems to have an overall better,thicker tone,along with the frequency seperation being very tight,making for far more positionaly accurate..it also has a 24-bit crystalizer im sure you have heard,...it worx pretty good,...you will notice more of an improvement from it in older games,and it does have an adjustable slider for different degrees of i guess you would call "crystalization?" in most EAX2,3 and 4 games its unecessary.....actually though my sig is wrong i forgot to change it i fixed the remote on my 5.1 set so thats what im back using again(which shines even farther on the x-fi)

 

[alcoholbob]

If you have $15,000 to drop on headphones, might as well buy the X-Fi Platinum and just don't look back.

It will be better maybe a little, but you have to remember how small headphone drivers are. Determining whether something is ahead or behind you is all about the accuracy of your own hearing acuity and how well you can differentiate cues from reflections that are a few mm apart. Crossfeed filters attempt to mimick a front stereo soundfield with delayed sounds and heavy frontal cues but you can't build a soundstage with two speakers pointed direction at your ears when they should be perpendicular to them.

Limitations of headphones more than the source. Maybe you should use some sort of small, ergonomic surround system for you first person shooting gaming (I assume it's for this purpose you need these directional cues).

Just noticed the Orpheus uses a giant tube amp. Interesting. Tubes are nice...when you don't need alot of current, face a flat impedence curve, and prefer the warm feelings you get from even-order distortion. The Orpheus probably would sound a lot better with a nice Class-T or IcePower amp...no offense to the owner or tube lovers.

 

[GOREGRINDER]

best way to describe the x-fi,.....


its like you have had your speakers under a thick layer of carpet,...facing the ground and you have removed the carpet from over your speakers and faced the speakers upright facing you,.....thats how going to an x-fi is imo

and once yoru ears adjust to it you start to notice exactly how much better it really is in the spatial and frequency seperation department

 

[vbuggy]

Thanks for the comments so far. What does the CMSS knob on the Elite do? Whatever it does, does the CMSS jogdial on the remote on the other models do the same job? I don't need MIDI, digital IO or any such things since all I need is an analog line-out. I have pro soundcards on other PC's for listening, digital IO and MIDI use so the jumble of IO's of the Elite doesn't seem to offer me anything over the Xtrememusic for example. But if higher models offer more in terms of in-game benefits I'll go for that.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

The Elite has better DACs and the upper two have x-ram which may or may not pan out.

You're probably not going to want to mess with the crystallizer because among other things it boosts treble and bass to make things "sound better".

 

[orangat]

cmss upmixes stereo music to 5,7 speakers so you won't only have sound coming out of 2 speakers. I leave it off since it does degrade sq according to some feedback.

EAX traditionally had poor positional audio with headphones compared to A3d. Maybe the drivers never caught up and its not your headphones. Perhaps x-fi drivers have improved.

I'm also thinking that the soundstage of the headphones might have something to do with it although Senns traditionally have a big ss.

 

[vbuggy]

Hi everyone. Just an update.
I walked into a shop and they had the Xtrememusic, Fatality and the Elite available and they had them out on display. I hate to appear frivolous, but I chose the Elite mainly on the basis of the CMSS knob on the external box I'll install it when I get back home and see how I get on. Thanks for the comments.

 

[alcoholbob]

I'm sure the choice made little dent in your wallet

 

[vbuggy]

The CMSS on the X-Fi seems to make a real difference. Front and back is now much more pronounced and the sound 'range' seems to be much more realistic on all the headphones I've trying with games since yesterday, and it certainly shines on the Orpheus. As a previous poster said, it does degrade the sound quality but quality is not that much of an issue in games. On the Elite Pro there's an on/off button on the front panel of the external box for the CMSS so it can be easily disabled, and from what I saw the Fatality has the same remote as the Elite which means you can control it via the remote.

As an aside I've also been trying music out of the X-Fi using ASIO both by Line-Out and digital to a DAC, and it's surprisingly not bad. The Crystalizer on the other hand seems to be a bit of gimmick, although I can hear how it would 'wake up' the sound on lower-grade equipment.

One last thing, could someone tell me exactly what the CMSS settings do?