WWIII posts all over Facebook because Iran but i think it's within the realm of possibility that Trump will launch Nukes if he loses the 2020 election

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dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,709
136
while I don't doubt trump would TRY to nuke Iran/Iraq I don't think he'd be allowed to on a whim without some serious data to back the action, which there isn't any.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,634
8,522
136
Was the Iraq war worth it or not?

There are still many who claim that it was, and not just full-on neo-cons, but also those of the Chris Hitchens persuasion, who consider themselves some sort of leftist. Perhaps in the US it was entirely a conservative project, but here many Blair-supporters still try and defend it as a good thing that just had some flaws in its execution (anything that went wrong was the fault of people other than themselves, of course). Many of these are former-leftists and centrists, still on their slow-motion journey to the right.

I disagree with them, but I do think it's a really hard question, because it depends on so many counterfactuals. Such as, how would the Saddam regime have ended, and what would have replaced it, if left to it's own devices or pressured in more subtle and less violent ways? And it also depends on where Iraq ends up, in this timeline, because the consequences of that intervention are clearly far from over. And then there's the moral philosophy question of how far one has the right to offset deaths of people who aren't you, against some alleged improvement in the world? Even if Iraq is better-off now than it would have been under Saddam, how do you tell that to the tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands who died to get us here?

The same people who attempt to defend the Iraq war as a good idea, executed imperfectly, are the same who now agitate for stronger military intervention in Syria. And I find some of what they say about Syria to be unsettling - certainly there are some on the left who go beyond just being cautious about war, to being sympathetic to Assad. You find all sorts of unpleasant chains-of-association between people. And exclusively opposing Western intervention is a bit weird when the Russians are intervening big-time.

But I still end up thinking 'the West' is just not suited to 'bring democracy' to anyone else, because our own system is so flawed, it will inevitably go horribly wrong, as it invariably has on every past occasion that wasn't about doing it to Germany or Japan.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Neocons to tea party to maga. It’s all the same shit. They just added a bunch of tards.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,017
8,545
136
Things like this will happen, and continue to happen, when there is little to no oversight of the President's use of extra-judicial killing. While what Trump may have differed in the complete lack of evidence presented, the immediacy of necessary actions, and the wisdom of the strike. It is not horribly different from the actions Obama took in the extra-judicial killing of Anwar al-Awlaki or Bush did for many others. The unfettered power of the President to murder anyone in the world as long as he pretends to have a reason has now been given to a narcissistic, bullying moron. Maybe now some grownups will find a spine and try to limit, or at least get some judicial oversight, over extra-judicial killing. With Trump in charge - the containment of American power may be the overwhelming geopolitical issue facing the globe today.
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
646
658
96

Furthermore, it takes 4 minutes from when Trump issues the order to launch. More importantly, Trump didn't take the proper steps to order the assassination - so, what makes anyone think he'll follow the protocol on launching a nuke as well?

Even more important, there was no imminent attack. The US fooled Iraq into drawing the Iranian general out and, ended up killing Iraqis in the process.

Even more so important than that, the US invaded Iraq. We are the aggressors here.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,407
8,698
136
God no, they can't let him. They'll have to put him in a straight jacket and lead him away if he tries to launch nukes having lost the election. There should be a law. Some kind of fail-safe system to counter a sore loser.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,407
8,698
136
Holy smokes. TDS is reaching new heights. Progressheviks are losing their minds because Trump dare stand up to Iran, China, Russia, and North Korea.
Stand up to Russia and North Korea? Man, are you out of your mind? He's buddy buddy with their dictators. Loves sharing a glass of wine with them, toasting them, shaking their bloody hands. He hasn't stood up to them in any way, shape or form. China? Well, he's using China as a political propaganda tool, but I don't see that he's accomplished anything with regards to them.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,632
4,684
136

Furthermore, it takes 4 minutes from when Trump issues the order to launch.

That depends on what weapons system you are talking about. For example a submarine based nuclear weapons system from the time of flash traffic receipt to first missile away is about 30 minutes.

Rough outline of events, many are concurrent.

Flash Traffic received.
Battle stations ordered for strategic launch.
Launch Orders verified 2 man rule.
Proper launch keys distributed ( more than one key is needed ) one for each tube and the CO's Permission to fire key.
Battle stations manned.
Ship brought within launch parameters speed depth etc...
Launch.


 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
That depends on what weapons system you are talking about. For example a submarine based nuclear weapons system from the time of flash traffic receipt to first missile away is about 30 minutes.

Rough outline of events, many are concurrent.

Flash Traffic received.
Battle stations ordered for strategic launch.
Launch Orders verified 2 man rule.
Proper launch keys distributed ( more than one key is needed ) one for each tube and the CO's Permission to fire key.
Battle stations manned.
Ship brought within launch parameters speed depth etc...
Launch.
Since I was relatively recently debriefed, all I can say is that it's happens a bit faster now.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,634
8,522
136
Since I was relatively recently debriefed, all I can say is that it's happens a bit faster now.



For British nuclear submarines the 'last resort' for determining whether to launch, in the event of losing contact with the line-of-command, is to open a sealed letter from the PM saying whether to fire or not, and also to try and tune into Radio Four, and see if it's still broadcasting (as opposed to the BBC having being reduced to a pile of radioactive ash).

So the end of the world might be averted by someone hearing the opening bars of the theme tune to The Archers.