WWATD - Brother is Dropping the Ball with My Father

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Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
See this response by OP. Dad was living by himself in the Czech Republic. He had social security, alimony and socialized healthcare, but the OP and (moreso) his brother thought it might be best if he moved back to be close to family in his late years. Financially, he may have even been better off in the Czech Republic if his taxes were less than what medicare eats.

There were myriad reasons for my dad to come to the states. Not the least of which was the fact that his "family" double crossed and stole property from him under the auspices of an "agreement" to take care of him as he got older (which they renegged on once my dad made the requested transfers). In other words, my dad got swindled over there by his relatives.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Well OP, that is pretty difficult situation now that it is fully fleshed out.

Personally, I would go a little further with the stick and see how that works. If your brother gives any positive reaction and changes his behavior, then that might be the way to go. Obviously he has some feeling for your father or he wouldn't have wanted to start this process, so ride it out.

Just be prepared if the stick doesn't work, or it make things worse, to pull the parachute before the entire situation falls apart (aka your father is back with you completely) and try some carrots. There has to be something you can offer your brother he wants.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
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Taking care of older people can be difficult. I took care of my uncle for 2 years. He was 78 years old and suffered from Parkinson's disease. I had to dress him, get the urinal bucket, etc. I took him out to eat, and drove him around the city. He hated spending time at home, because his wife had severe depression. She would scream and curse at us all the time. At the end of my stay he was wearing an adult diaper that needed to be constantly changed. I had enough and took a teaching job in Korea. He eventually died last year.

Why do we treat old people in America horribly? We act like we're not going to get old some day. I believe in Karma. Show compassion and hopefully when you get old someone will show compassion to you. I like how Asians treat their elderly. It's very common in Thailand to have the parents live with their children.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
So what were the pros again?

Family close by.

Established relationships with sons.

People who think of him and not of his money (in CZ he was fairly well off. Here . . . nope.).

Other than that what you are implying is probably right. I should have seen it coming. I just thought that when it came to our father, my brother would finally put his selfishness aside and do what is right. Consider me disappointed.

Looks like your gonna have to bite the bullet and negotiate for full custody of pops


Agreed.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
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I just thought that when it came to our father, my brother would finally put his selfishness aside and do what is right. Consider me disappointed.

in his (slight) defense, if you're married, have kids, etc, it could be easier for you to integrate your dad into your household than your brother, who is living by himself and is out of the house for work most days.

of course, he should have taken all that into account before encouraging the arrangement.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Taking care of older people can be difficult. I took care of my uncle for 2 years. He was 78 years old and suffered from Parkinson's disease. I had to dress him, get the urinal bucket, etc. I took him out to eat, and drove him around the city. He hated spending time at home, because his wife had severe depression. She would scream and curse at us all the time. At the end of my stay he was wearing an adult diaper that needed to be constantly changed. I had enough and took a teaching job in Korea. He eventually died last year.

Why do we treat old people in America horribly? We act like we're not going to get old some day. I believe in Karma. Show compassion and hopefully when you get old someone will show compassion to you. I like how Asians treat their elderly. It's very common in Thailand to have the parents live with their children.

y you had to do this?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
in his (slight) defense, if you're married, have kids, etc, it could be easier for you to integrate your dad into your household than your brother, who is living by himself and is out of the house for work most days.

of course, he should have taken all that into account before encouraging the arrangement.

really?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91

2 people taking care of dad in 1 house versus only 1 person to take care of him in the other? OP and his wife can at least balance out the burden between them, whereas the brother has to handle it all himself (assuming that, if the OP has kids, they're of an age where they're mostly self-sufficient... obv, this wouldn't apply if the OP is trying to take care of dad plus a litter of toddlers)
 

eng2d2

Golden Member
Nov 7, 2013
1,007
38
91
Taking care of older people can be difficult. I took care of my uncle for 2 years. He was 78 years old and suffered from Parkinson's disease. I had to dress him, get the urinal bucket, etc. I took him out to eat, and drove him around the city. He hated spending time at home, because his wife had severe depression. She would scream and curse at us all the time. At the end of my stay he was wearing an adult diaper that needed to be constantly changed. I had enough and took a teaching job in Korea. He eventually died last year.

Why do we treat old people in America horribly? We act like we're not going to get old some day. I believe in Karma. Show compassion and hopefully when you get old someone will show compassion to you. I like how Asians treat their elderly. It's very common in Thailand to have the parents live with their children.

What would you do if the kids made arrangement or preparation when they were young to prepare for this situation and parents don't want to listen? In other words the kids had a plan to prepare for this but parents don't want to listen. Do you still think the kids are responsible for their parents hardship?
 

midwestfisherman

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2003
3,564
8
81
in his (slight) defense, if you're married, have kids, etc, it could be easier for you to integrate your dad into your household than your brother, who is living by himself and is out of the house for work most days.

of course, he should have taken all that into account before encouraging the arrangement.

2 people taking care of dad in 1 house versus only 1 person to take care of him in the other? OP and his wife can at least balance out the burden between them, whereas the brother has to handle it all himself (assuming that, if the OP has kids, they're of an age where they're mostly self-sufficient... obv, this wouldn't apply if the OP is trying to take care of dad plus a litter of toddlers)

Uh, his brother does NOT live alone. He's got a husband. Reading comprehension?
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
0
I still don't believe this is entirely about your brother.

It just feels too much like your father is bouncing around looking for the best place for him with no regard for the burden he's putting on people.

It sounds like your father wants everyone else to make sacrifices, but he's not willing to do any work. The only semi legitimate thing he's brought up is the food situation, and even that doesn't sound that bad. He's still going to the grocery store once a week. Seems like he just doesn't care for what they have in their kitchen.

I've been through this. My situation was oddly similar, with 'family stealing his money' and 'family taking advantage of him', so I moved him across the country into my home. After a year or so he 'wanted freedom' (if he lived in my place he had to help out with the yard etc, be a family member not a freeloader) so I found and paid for a place for him. My wife and I were seeing him at least once a week, all holidays, I was giving him quite a bit of money, reliable car, living situations, food, household goods, clothes, etc. He's former military and had a full VA pension on top of that.

In his situation the biggest complaint was that we didn't have time for him. Meanwhile wife and I were both working 40+ hour a week jobs, so spending an entire sat/sun plus all holidays was quite a bit for us.

So he moves in with my sister since she 'has time for him', then once he realizes it's not so great (she cannot help him financially like I was doing) he calls me telling me how terrible it is, how he's being taken advantage of and on and on. Of course, I immediately call my sister and find out what's really going on. By that time his spiel had caught up with him and I was done with the situation.

Honestly I saw it more as a mental illness than anything else. I think a lot of men who worked hard their entire lives feel like they defacto should be the center of everyone's lives when they're old.


My situation is a little different, as he wasn't the best father figure for a lot of my life. There was no history of him helping me that made me feel like I needed to repay him by supporting him. I now have my own family that I take care of, and I will not let anybody drag them down for a support issue - father included.

You said you have a wife. Do you have kids? These things can be extremely stressful on a family, particularly when the person you're trying to help support doesn't seem like much will make them happy.

I feel like you need to first have an open upfront conversation with your wife about what she's comfortable with and what's best for your family.

Then call your brother, as a friendly call. Apologize for your outburst, and see if you can get his side of the story.

After that, take a couple days to think about what you want to do. Like I said before, this is a HUGE decision. Time and life-wise this is no different than raising a child through 18 years old.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
What would you do if the kids made arrangement or preparation when they were young to prepare for this situation and parents don't want to listen? In other words the kids had a plan to prepare for this but parents don't want to listen. Do you still think the kids are responsible for their parents hardship?

We can only offer assistance. If you have parents and offer assistance but they still decline what can you do? You can't really do anything unless it turns tragic.

The aunt and uncle I talked about earlier were in a complicated situation. My aunt ran the show and she called all the shots. We were trying to get both of them into a retirement home. They had the money and they could easily afford the best. It took my aunt falling down a flight of stairs to get both of them into a place where they could get the help they needed. When I left my uncle was urinating in a plastic container. He would also fall down multiple times as his Parkinson's Disease took a turn for the worst. It got that bad.

I think as adults we need to do what we can to assist our parents when they reach old age. What comes around goes around. If you leave your parents in an old age home and you never bother to see them don't be surprised if your children do the same. Karma is a bitch.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Your brother is an immature beautiful being.
rimshot.gif
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
2 people taking care of dad in 1 house versus only 1 person to take care of him in the other? OP and his wife can at least balance out the burden between them, whereas the brother has to handle it all himself (assuming that, if the OP has kids, they're of an age where they're mostly self-sufficient... obv, this wouldn't apply if the OP is trying to take care of dad plus a litter of toddlers)

Again - my brother is married. He has a husband who for all sense and purposes is his wife. So he lives in a dual income no kids household.

My wife and I have 2 kids. One is five, the other is two. I am an attorney, my wife is a federal criminal investigator. We have some semblance of what it is like to be busy.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
I still don't believe this is entirely about your brother.

It just feels too much like your father is bouncing around looking for the best place for him with no regard for the burden he's putting on people.

I appreciate your thoughts and have given some of them significant consideration, but with respect you are wrong about a couple basic things in this situation.

1. My father doesn't want to burden anyone and has expressed as much multiple times. He was very upset that I yelled at my brother because he feels that he is the root of it. His whole life has been spent avoiding conflict, mainly by giving up everything he has or wants to make sure that others are happy.

2. You seem to think that I am expecting my brother to quit his job and become a full time caregiver. I don't. I do expect my brother to integrate my father into his family (as I did), and to give him some attention every now and then. My father does not need nor does he ask for my brother or I to spend the entire weekend with him. But it would not kill my brother to check in with him once a day by phone (if he can;t be there in person) and to spend an hour or two with him on the weekends. As it stands my brother is never home, his husband ignores my father, and my father is left alone for weeks on end.

It sounds like your father wants everyone else to make sacrifices, but he's not willing to do any work. The only semi legitimate thing he's brought up is the food situation, and even that doesn't sound that bad. He's still going to the grocery store once a week. Seems like he just doesn't care for what they have in their kitchen.

Again, my father doesn't want to burden anyone. HE wasn't the one who initiated the move back to the states. My brother did that, after talking with me.

As for the food - my father is diabetic and has crohn's disease (managed). He has certain dietary restrictions as a result. He also has a very limited income. My brother and his husband eat out 99% of the time and literally have almost no food in the house. What they do have my father cannot or should not eat. Spicy processed mexican rice and dairy are not options for someone with Crohn's. My father literally ate nothing but potatoes for 5 days because that was all that was in the house and my brother was leaving at 8AM and coming home at 11PM every night.

I've been through this. My situation was oddly similar, with 'family stealing his money' and 'family taking advantage of him', so I moved him across the country into my home. After a year or so he 'wanted freedom' (if he lived in my place he had to help out with the yard etc, be a family member not a freeloader) so I found and paid for a place for him. My wife and I were seeing him at least once a week, all holidays, I was giving him quite a bit of money, reliable car, living situations, food, household goods, clothes, etc. He's former military and had a full VA pension on top of that.

In his situation the biggest complaint was that we didn't have time for him. Meanwhile wife and I were both working 40+ hour a week jobs, so spending an entire sat/sun plus all holidays was quite a bit for us.

I appreciate that you have been through this situation. I too have some experience with elderly relatives. My grandmother lived with my family when I was growing up, and I watched my aunt and mother take car of her (and later, my grandfather). So I have some idea of what to expect. Once my dad gets to a point where he can't take care of his basic needs, we will be looking for a medicaid supported retirement community. But until that point, the ENTIRE point of having my dad come over to stay with us was so that we could have a relationship with him again.

For the record, I will again say that what my father is reporting is entirely consistent with how I understand my brother and his husband live. I firmly believe that this is not a scenario where my father is spinning a tale to up the "whoa is me" factor.

You said you have a wife. Do you have kids? These things can be extremely stressful on a family, particularly when the person you're trying to help support doesn't seem like much will make them happy.

Yes. 2 kids. I have had the talk with my wife. We had it a year and a half ago before my father moved back. Right before he came to live with us. And again a few days ago. She is on board with anything I decide in this regard.

I feel like you need to first have an open upfront conversation with your wife about what she's comfortable with and what's best for your family.

Already done. And FWIW - my family is inclusive of my father. I am not going to abandon him when I am partly the cause of him being in the USA to begin with.

Then call your brother, as a friendly call. Apologize for your outburst, and see if you can get his side of the story.

I have a call scheduled with my brother this weekend. Everyone involved is to be present (brother, his husband, my wife, etc.). I will be civil. But I will not apologize unless it becomes absolutely clear that my father is making stuff up (which I am sure he is not for the reasons discussed above).

After that, take a couple days to think about what you want to do. Like I said before, this is a HUGE decision. Time and life-wise this is no different than raising a child through 18 years old.

Well understood. I took that time a year ago and still decided to invite my dad to move in with us. Looking back that might have been a mistake (at least in a sense). But on the other hand I do not regret it at all and would probably make the same decision again. As much as my father frustrates me sometimes, all it takes to make it worth it is for me to see him with my kids.
 
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eng2d2

Golden Member
Nov 7, 2013
1,007
38
91
If you are worried about your father maybe the best thing is have your father live with you and your brother can visit. That way there is no conflict and expectation.
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
106
.

My father literally ate nothing but potatoes for 5 days because that was all that was in the house and my brother was leaving at 8AM and coming home at 11PM every night.
.

If that can be substantiated there is really no point in having a long drawn out conversation with bro. Talky time over it's action time.
 

Rage187

Lifer
Dec 30, 2000
14,276
4
81
My inlaws took care of a neighbor until he was 95. He went to go live with his son or daughter and was dead within a month. They didn't spot the signs of a stroke and he just wasted away quickly after.

What I'm saying is. Your brother isn't spending time with him and doesn't understand his needs. You do, because he lived with you so long. If your brother can't spend time with him, then it is time to take him back.