WWATD - Brother is Dropping the Ball with My Father

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angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
91
Should've gotten full sitrep from bro and dad before flipping. Should've made plans for what pops was going to do all alone in BFE. Should've expected hiccups and had plans ready that didn't involve screaming.

However, at least you are trying to look after your dad. GJ on that.

Now, IF bro is being a douche as it appears, and IF dad really doesn't like it out in the middle of nowhere, you need to bring him home or get him a new home he really likes. If dad lives with you year round, bro needs to contribute half of the $ you spend. Keep receipts.

If bro doesn't want to pay that much, tough titty. You do your part to take care of dad, he does his part, end of story. You expect the check in a week, click. He'll probably get over it in a month or two.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
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Thanks for all of the replies.

To make things clear - my brother was the one who initiated the whole "dad come back to the U.S." thing. He even had it in his mind that he was going to have my father full time! But it is eminently clear that my brother did not think this through. I DO fault him for that, because it is not hard to imagine the impact an 80 year old man might have on your life.

I don't expect my brother to be a perfect caregiver. And he doesn't need to be. My father is 80 and has some relatively minor physical issues, but mentally he is all there. I have good conversations with him all the time. He keeps up with the news, facebook, etc. So he is not that far "down the hill" so to speak. He does however need someone to check in on him from time to time, to make sure he can get to the grocery store, and to get out of the house every now and then. When he was with me I made sure he had that stuff and more. Because I THOUGHT of what he would need and arranged it. I also just took the opportunity to spend time with my father, talk with him, and set my kids to climbing all over him.

In sum, I'm not asking my brother to change diapers, wipe spittle, and administer drugs all day. I'm asking him to be a decent son by spending some time with his dad and thinking about his needs every once in a while instead of cavorting through his life like nothing has changed.

Also, this is not the first time I have had a conversation with my brother about these issues. Before my dad moved in with him I called my brother multiple times to tell him what to expect, the type of services our father would need, etc. He (my brother) has taken care of none of them. He can't even take 15 minutes to put our father on his car insurance (which my father would pay for) so that our dad could drive to the store when my brother gets home!

After a month or so of my father being with my brother, I got the sense of what was going on and called my brother to discuss it. I suggested that he find a senior center that does pickup and drop-offs. There is one close by, but it requires an initial sign up. That means my brother or his husband needs to take a few minutes one day during the week (which they can do) to take my dad to the senior center and help him fill out the forms, etc. After that he could be picked up at his home and taken to the center in the morning, and dropped off later in the day. Has my brother done that? No.

One thing that is illustrative of how my brother treats our father is the fact that in the 8 months my father was living with me, my brother called him exactly 4 times. And 3 of those times were in response to me facebooking my brother and telling him that he needs to call his father every now and then.

To his credit my brother does work a lot. He works a full time job during the week and takes gigs on the weekends for extra pay. He does not "need" the extra pay per se, but chooses to do that stuff so that he and his husband can go on an extravagant vacation every year. That was fine when he did not have the responsibility of taking care of someone else. But once he agreed to house and take care of our dad for part of the year, my view is that he needs to make changes to his schedule to accommodate that responsibility. Anyone who has had children understands the meaning of that kind of sacrifice. Its not fun, but it is what must be done. I would like to take an extravagant vacation too. But I don't because I have kids!

I get all the replies here that say that I should not expect my brother to be a caregiver. My response to that is, "isn't that what my brother signed up for when he agreed to take care of my dad for half the year?" It wasn't as though my father "had" to come back to the states. We wanted him to because instead of being taken care of by the Czech state healthcare system (with no one who cared about him within 3000 miles), we wanted him home so that someone who cared would at least be nearby.

As for whether my brother has any extra money to "donate to the cause," I will just politely chuckle and say that my my brother and his husband are some of the most financially irresponsible people I know. There is no chance in hell I could expect any money from him. Thankfully I do not need it.

As for my father's finances, he is on a very limited fixed income. ~$1500 a month between a combination of social security and a small alimony payment from my mother. Medicare parts A, B and D suck up ~$600 of that a month. So there is not much left over. Certainly not enough to live in a retirement community. He does have some meager savings. But again, not much.

To those saying that I am not going to change a 41 year old man, I say bullshit. For one, my brother is not a man. He is a child in a man's body. He has no clue what being a man is like because he has never ever had to act like one and never has acted like one. He has been coddled all his life because he was a rare musical talent, and everyone catered to him and forgave him for being a general dumbass when it comes to all things non-music. Now don't get me wrong. I do not hate my brother. I love him a lot. But I am the one person in his life that tells him what is what. And I don't sugarcoat stuff to spare his ego. I think he respects me for that, even though he might not like what I have to say all the time.
 
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Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
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A single household isn't a great place to be. I'm not sure you can blame your brother very much for it, he has little experience with other people around, I assume, and thus is likely simply ill-prepared to deal with it.
With a work schedule, there isn't much he can do about daytime activities, especially if he lives outside town.

A house with a family and children is - for many - old people a much more welcoming place than a single household. Take this into account when making arrangements.

I can and do blame my brother for it. If he did not realize the impact his 80 year old father would have on his life, that is his fault and the correct response would be to man up and adapt. Not to ignore responsibility to my father's detriment. Particularly when my brother AGREED to take that responsibility on.

There is plenty my brother could do about daytime activities. He does not live in the middle of nowhere. He lives ~ a five minute drive from a moderately sized town. Plenty of things to do there. All my brother would have to do is spend 5 minutes arranging transportation.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
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Should've gotten full sitrep from bro and dad before flipping. Should've made plans for what pops was going to do all alone in BFE. Should've expected hiccups and had plans ready that didn't involve screaming.

I gave my brother the rundown on our dad multiple times before the flip. I told my brother what my dad would need as far as basic services, etc. As for what he was going to do all day, I left that to my brother because never in my life would I have thought my brother would just leave our dad to rot for weeks on end.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
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Trying to think from brothers point of view here. You may have caught your brother off guard. Could have been thinking that dad was content in the situation.

It sounds like your dad is being a passive participant in this whole thing. If dad is unhappy, why isn't dad talking to brother to fix the situation?
Hey son, I need more food!(I doubt there was no food, just not food he wanted to eat)
Hey son, I need to get out more!

My father's primary vice in his life is that he will not stick up for himself. He would rather tough something out than make someone upset. Either that or he just runs away. Not the most admirable thing to say but its the truth.

I'm sure my tone and approach caught my brother of guard, because I have never once yelled at him before. But I have had multiple conversations with him before on this topic, and none of them seemed to get through. So I tried a different approach.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
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:D

As long as bro can provide food and an internet connection, porn and ATOT should take care of the boredom :sneaky:

My father is the world's worst facebook stalker. Sometimes I wish I never showed him how to use an ipad.
 

angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
91
I actually have had similar situations in my life, both now and in the past. Frustrating to talk to someone who has never grown up. Sometimes being the asshole works, and sometimes being the mentor works. Keep us posted.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
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I have taken care of my mother and father in their older years.

I'll just say it like this, I wouldn't take your father's word as the be all end all.

I wouldn't be surprised if he told your brother he was treated poorly at your place.

It can be VERY difficult to care for an elderly person, and he could easily live to be 90-95, so keep htat in mind.

It's not your brother's responsibility to entertain 80 year old dad, even if the house is in the boonies. The fact that your father 'blames' your brother like this is not a great sign.

It's a tough situation with very difficult decisions. You and your brother need to work together.

But most of all, your dad cannot be emotionally dependent on either of you for his sole entertainment.

Good luck.

These are all good points. Thanks. I am trying to cool down enough to have a "conversation" with my brother again. And while I appreciate the points re: old folks not always telling the truth, what my dad is saying to me meshes VERY well with my understanding of how my brother and his husband live their lives. One or both of them will be bitching if the world doesn't revolve around them or what they want to do.
 
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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
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called my brother, and screamed at him over the phone that he needs to take better care of our father. He was outraged that I was so upset, arguing that he "had to work" etc., to which I responded that he needed to put my father's needs above his own on occasion.

I can and do blame my brother for it. If he did not realize the impact his 80 year old father would have on his life

this is not the first time I have had a conversation with my brother about these issues. Before my dad moved in with him I called my brother multiple times to tell him what to expect,

so your brother quits his job? I think you are being totally unfair. I dont think your brother knew what he was getting into. You had your wife to help you and i say this from having taking care of my mom before she passed, without my wife there would have been no way i could have done it alone.

seems to me there are two options. your father moves back with you and you take care of him to the standards you feel are adequate or you put him in assisted living.
 
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disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
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Buy your father a car so he can get around on his own.

You want an octogenarian facebook user driving around by himself? He's liable to run over some ATOTer's fake gf. A regular octogenarian is bad enough but a facebook user? A mix of teenage texting liability (TTL it's not just transistor-transistor logic anymore) and spatially unaware octogenarian (SUO, it's not just orangmen from SU anymore) is not a good mix.
 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
2,670
1
81
So it's your brother, his husband, and your dad.

First off, big props for your dad for accepting his homosexual son. Older people tend to be inflexible in their ways and unable to understand the foreign.

This conflict resolution should be the same as any other. Work with your brother (and your dad) so that you both can agree on what's required, what's acceptable, and what's not.

Food, obviously, is an issue. Maybe your brother has frozen pizza rolls and kimchee in the fridge, and your father doesn't consider that food. Or maybe your brother's fridge and pantry truly are empty.

And seriously, your brother (or his husband) should find a way to take a half day or whatever it takes to get your dad signed up for the senior day camp thingy. It's a one-time paperwork thing to get your dad out meeting new people and playing canasta!

Hopefully they can develop a rhythm of interaction and fun so that you don't need to mandate a "date night" where they take your dad out weekly so that he can escape cabin fever.

Good luck. Conflicts with family are sometimes the hardest to resolve.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Sadly, you cannot dictate how your brother raises your dad now. It's like telling someone how to raise their children.

The best you can do is offer to take him on full-time.

This may not be the answer you wanted to hear, but that is the reality of the situation.

We have a lot of retirees down here in Florida whose families have just written them off. These were people that spent money to send their kids to medical and law schools even, gave them great head starts and a great life growing up.

This sort of goes hand in hand with the computer repair story I just mentioned in another thread. I was much younger and did it as a side business and most of my clients were wealthy retirees and those that pretty much never had to work. I spent a lot of time at their homes and I feel many times they just paid me to work on their PC's because they wanted someone to talk to. Some made jokes about putting me in their wills and mentioned they were not leaving ANYTHING to their children. Some even cut out their great/grandkids.

It was fucking sad at times. I could agree with a child that was abused and neglected to just forget about 'mom and dad' when they were finally able to escape, but to do this to a parent(s) that sacrificed greatly and gave them a life of wealth themselves is inexcusable.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
Did Dad not make any provisions or plans for when he became elderly and unable to take care of himself?

I think it's kind of crappy that you and your brother had to decide this at the last minute. Yes, you've got to address the issue and do your best to take care of him, but don't feel guilty if you don't provide perfect living conditions for him, either.

This is as much your father's fault as anyone else.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
You had your wife to help you and i say this from having taking care of my mom before she passed, without my wife there would have been no way i could have done it alone.

Brother isn't alone. It sounds like the brother and his husband are in over their heads and/or weren't prepared for the life and routine changes required to care for and live with their father....even if it was somewhat the brother's idea.

Again, as mentioned, call and work it out in a calm, direct manner. Have a conference call or something and find out together what it is your dad wants and needs and how the brother/husband can address those needs. If they're unable, or unwilling, get it out in the air and then move forward.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Did Dad not make any provisions or plans for when he became elderly and unable to take care of himself?

I think it's kind of crappy that you and your brother had to decide this at the last minute. Yes, you've got to address the issue and do your best to take care of him, but don't feel guilty if you don't provide perfect living conditions for him, either.

This is as much your father's fault as anyone else.

See this response by OP. Dad was living by himself in the Czech Republic. He had social security, alimony and socialized healthcare, but the OP and (moreso) his brother thought it might be best if he moved back to be close to family in his late years. Financially, he may have even been better off in the Czech Republic if his taxes were less than what medicare eats.
 
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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I have taken care of my mother and father in their older years.

I'll just say it like this, I wouldn't take your father's word as the be all end all.

this is a great point.

I live "with" my 86 year-old great aunt (we're in a 2 family house... I live in one unit, and she's in the other). some of the stuff she says about me to my mom is just astounding.

like complete, utter, 100% fabrications and I have no clue where she gets it from. she's nice as can be to my face and is always talking about how glad she is to have me around to help take care of her, but christ the stuff she says behind my back is jaw-dropping.

obviously my mom and I talk about it because we both know she's crazy and this is all stemming from her dementia, and we both know not to put too much stock in what she says (likewise, she also trashtalks my parents to me).

yesterday she threatened to call the cops on me because a piece of her mail was supposedly missing :eek: nevermind the fact that this was 9 am on a Monday and the mail hadn't been delivered yet (and no mail the day before). the front door was locked and I was in bed asleep.

I heard her knocking on my door and I was doing my best to ignore her, but once she started ranting in our shared entryway about me stealing her mail and threatening to call the cops, I finally had to relent and open the door. once she actually saw me in-person, the vile she was spewing 10 seconds prior completely vanished.
 

eng2d2

Golden Member
Nov 7, 2013
1,007
38
91
What type of planning did you guys have if any? Did you and your brother talked about this extensively before he arrived or did you just say will just deal with it when he gets here?
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
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Things that were known prior to starting this experiment:

  • bro be self centered "spoiled"
  • Works alot
  • lived in the sticks
  • had little in common with father
  • rarely speaks with father
  • bro talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk
So what were the pros again?

Looks like your gonna have to bite the bullet and negotiate for full custody of pops
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
so your brother quits his job? I think you are being totally unfair. I dont think your brother knew what he was getting into. You had your wife to help you and i say this from having taking care of my mom before she passed, without my wife there would have been no way i could have done it alone.

seems to me there are two options. your father moves back with you and you take care of him to the standards you feel are adequate or you put him in assisted living.

My brother is not alone. He has his husband to help out, just as I have my wife.

I am not asking my brother to quit his job. I am asking my brother to make changes in his schedule to accommodate the fact that my father is there and under his care. That might involve him giving up some weekend and night gigs so that he can attend to my father's basic needs. This will not bankrupt him or put him under undue financial strain, though it would affect his ability to take a ridiculous vacation every year.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
Buy your father a car so he can get around on his own.

I can't! My father is living in another state now. He needs a valid driver's license before he can buy a car. He has a VA drivers license and is fine to drive, but neither my brother nor I live in Virginia anymore. My brother needs to take him to the DMV to get a new license . . . but will he do that? Nope.]