WTH? 'RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert' UPDATED with more warnings

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,211
0
76

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/mon...&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

Barclays warns of a financial storm as Federal Reserve's credibility crumbles

Last Updated: 12:01am BST 28/06/2008

US central bank accused of unleashing an inflation shock that will rock financial markets, reports Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Barclays Capital has advised clients to batten down the hatches for a worldwide financial storm, warning that the US Federal Reserve has allowed the inflation genie out of the bottle and let its credibility fall "below zero".

"We're in a nasty environment," said Tim Bond, the bank's chief equity strategist. "There is an inflation shock underway. This is going to be very negative for financial assets. We are going into tortoise mood and are retreating into our shell. Investors will do well if they can preserve their wealth."

Barclays Capital said in its closely-watched Global Outlook that US headline inflation would hit 5.5pc by August and the Fed will have to raise interest rates six times by the end of next year to prevent a wage-spiral. If it hesitates, the bond markets will take matters into their own hands. "This is the first test for central banks in 30 years and they have fluffed it. They have zero credibility, and the Fed is negative if that's possible. It has lost all credibility," said Mr Bond.

Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke has made a huge policy mistake, according to Barclays
Strategists at Barclays accuse Ben Bernanke of a policy blunder
# RBS issues global crash alert
# Read more by Ambrose Evans Pritchard

The grim verdict on Ben Bernanke's Fed was underscored by the markets yesterday as the dollar fell against the euro following the bank's dovish policy statement on Wednesday.

Traders said the Fed seemed to be rowing back from rate rises. The effect was to propel oil to $138 a barrel, confirming its role as a sort of "anti-dollar" and as a market reproach to Washington's easy-money policies.

The Fed's stimulus is being transmitted to the 45-odd countries linked to the dollar around world. The result is surging commodity prices. Global inflation has jumped from 3.2pc to 5pc over the last year.

Mr Bond said the emerging world is now on the cusp of a serious crisis. "Inflation is out of control in Asia. Vietnam has already blown up. The policy response is to shoot the messenger, like the developed central banks in the late 1960s and 1970s," he said.

"They will have to slam on the brakes. There is going to be a deep global recession over the next three years as policy-makers try to get inflation back in the box."

Barclays Capital recommends outright "short" positions on Asian bonds, warning that yields could jump 200 to 300 basis points. The currencies of trade-deficit states like India should be sold. The US yield curve is likely to "steepen" with a vengeance, causing a bloodbath for bond holders.

David Woo, the bank's currency chief, said the Fed's policy of benign neglect towards the dollar had been stymied by oil, which is now eating deep into the country's standard of living. "The world has changed all of a sudden. The market is going to push the Fed into a tightening stance," he said.
# Gazprom chief expects 'radical' change in oil price
# More comment and analysis from The Telegraph

The bank said the full damage from the global banking crisis would take another year to unfold.

Rob McAdie, Barclays' credit strategist, said: "The core issues have not been addressed. We're still in a very large deleveraging cycle and we're seeing losses continue to mount. We think smaller banks will struggle to raise capital. We're very bearish - in the long-term - on high-yield debt. The default rate will reach 8pc to 9pc next year."

He said investors had taken their eye off the slow-motion disaster engulfing the US bond insurers or "monolines". Together these firms guarantee $170bn of structured credit and $1,000bn of US municipal bonds.

The two leaders - MBIA and Ambac - have already been downgraded as the rating agencies belatedly turn stringent. The risk is further downgrades could set off a fresh wave of bank troubles. "The creditworthiness of many US financial institutions will decline in coming months," he said.

The bank warned that engineering and auto firms we're likely to face a crunch as steel and oil costs surge. "Their business models will have to be substantially altered if they are going to survive," said Mr McAdie.

A small chorus of City bankers dissent from the view that inflation is the chief danger in the US and other rich OECD countries. The teams at Société Générale, Dresdner Kleinwort, and Banque AIG all warn that deflation may loom as housing markets crumble under record levels of household debt.

Bernard Connolly, global startegist at Banque AIG, said inflation targeting by central banks had become a "totemism that threatens to crush the world economy".

He said it would be madness to throw millions out of work by deflating part of the economy to offset a rise in imported fuel and food prices. Real wages are being squeezed by oil, come what may. It may be healthier for society to let it happen gently.




Has anyone heard anything about this? Is this for real? I can see something like this posted on a blog, but it seems like a much more dire prediction than I would expect from a respected institution like RBS...

Text

RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor
Last Updated: 12:19am BST 19/06/2008

The Royal Bank of Scotland has advised clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation paralyses the major central banks.

"A very nasty period is soon to be upon us - be prepared," said Bob Janjuah, the bank's credit strategist.

A report by the bank's research team warns that the S&P 500 index of Wall Street equities is likely to fall by more than 300 points to around 1050 by September as "all the chickens come home to roost" from the excesses of the global boom, with contagion spreading across Europe and emerging markets.

RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert
RBS warning: Be prepared for a 'nasty' period

Such a slide on world bourses would amount to one of the worst bear markets over the last century.
# RBS alert: Quotes from the report
# Fund managers react to RBS alert
# Support for the euro is in doubt

RBS said the iTraxx index of high-grade corporate bonds could soar to 130/150 while the "Crossover" index of lower grade corporate bonds could reach 650/700 in a renewed bout of panic on the debt markets.

"I do not think I can be much blunter. If you have to be in credit, focus on quality, short durations, non-cyclical defensive names.
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"Cash is the key safe haven. This is about not losing your money, and not losing your job," said Mr Janjuah, who became a City star after his grim warnings last year about the credit crisis proved all too accurate.

RBS expects Wall Street to rally a little further into early July before short-lived momentum from America's fiscal boost begins to fizzle out, and the delayed effects of the oil spike inflict their damage.

"Globalisation was always going to risk putting G7 bankers into a dangerous corner at some point. We have got to that point," he said.

US Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank both face a Hobson's choice as workers start to lose their jobs in earnest and lenders cut off credit.

The authorities cannot respond with easy money because oil and food costs continue to push headline inflation to levels that are unsettling the markets. "The ugly spoiler is that we may need to see much lower global growth in order to get lower inflation," he said.
# Morgan Stanley warns of catastrophe
# More comment and analysis from the Telegraph

"The Fed is in panic mode. The massive credibility chasms down which the Fed and maybe even the ECB will plummet when they fail to hike rates in the face of higher inflation will combine to give us a big sell-off in risky assets," he said.

Kit Jukes, RBS's head of debt markets, said Europe would not be immune. "Economic weakness is spreading and the latest data on consumer demand and confidence are dire. The ECB is hell-bent on raising rates.

"The political fall-out could be substantial as finance ministers from the weaker economies rail at the ECB. Wider spreads between the German Bunds and peripheral markets seem assured," he said.

Ultimately, the bank expects the oil price spike to subside as the more powerful force of debt deflation takes hold next year.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
I have no doubt that our upcoming Depression will Rival "The Great Depression"
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: dahunan
I have no doubt that our upcoming Depression will Rival "The Great Depression"

I don't see our 'springing back' from this one the same way. It seems more like a permanent adjustment as the world catches up to the US while the US slides to compete.

Are there any investment people who care to share their input on how to protect from this? There's cash (US), cash (non-US), gold, as the obvious...
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
i heard this over and over again on the radio, part of the doom and gloom, buy gold now! advertisements. Every week they follow with another gloomy report and then spout off ways they are selling you gold for a good price.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,411
8,465
136
Originally posted by: maddogchen
i heard this over and over again on the radio, part of the doom and gloom, buy gold now! advertisements. Every week they follow with another gloomy report and then spout off ways they are selling you gold for a good price.

Nothing happens over night. Rome was not built in a day - nor did it fall in a day. In our lifetime however, we have a front row seat. You complain that it has not yet come to pass, yet it is already unfolding before your very eyes you just have to open your eyes.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,363
1
0
Originally posted by: maddogchen
i heard this over and over again on the radio, part of the doom and gloom, buy gold now! advertisements. Every week they follow with another gloomy report and then spout off ways they are selling you gold for a good price.

Not the same thing. Last few years USA's economy was built on housing bubble, running the economy rolling based on false premise of houses suddenly worth more for no good reason. Do you really expect nothing of consequence will come out?

Sadly, Americans are more interested in burying their head in the sands than anything else. Even now as we speak, Americans are borrowing more and more money from other countries to finance our life style like it's no problem.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: maddogchen
i heard this over and over again on the radio, part of the doom and gloom, buy gold now! advertisements. Every week they follow with another gloomy report and then spout off ways they are selling you gold for a good price.

Nothing happens over night. Rome was not built in a day - nor did it fall in a day. In our lifetime however, we have a front row seat. You complain that it has not yet come to pass, yet it is already unfolding before your very eyes you just have to open your eyes.

I'm not that concerned. I'm far from retiring so my investment objectives are long term. I'm diversified in cash, gold (bought in 1980), mutual funds (domestic and global equities, bonds, commodities). So if there is a downtrend in global stocks for the next couple of years I will continue to invest through dollar cost averaging.

Trying to time the market has been proven to be a fool's game and more than one institution has been wrong when sounding the alarm. They cost their investors a lot of money when the markets instead went up instead of down. The key is still to keep yourself well diversified but still in the market.

The key concern for many people will still be your job and how its affected. I just have to hope I can weather the storm in my job area which is Health Care.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
Originally posted by: babylon5
Originally posted by: maddogchen
i heard this over and over again on the radio, part of the doom and gloom, buy gold now! advertisements. Every week they follow with another gloomy report and then spout off ways they are selling you gold for a good price.

Not the same thing. Last few years USA's economy was built on housing bubble, running the economy rolling based on false premise of houses suddenly worth more for no good reason. Do you really expect nothing of consequence will come out?

Sadly, Americans are more interested in burying their head in the sands than anything else. Even now as we speak, Americans are borrowing more and more money from other countries to finance our life style like it's no problem.

yes if you borrow more and more and live off credit or buy a house bigger than you can afford or even need then yes you'll be screwed. But with that lifestyle you'll be screwed anyway regardless of whether or not it will be a recession, depression, or a small bump in the road.

I think its actually pretty simple to prevent. Teach financial responsibility in schools. Too many people go to college, graduate from college, without the knowledge of how to budget, spend, and save accordingly so that they will live a economically healthier life.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: maddogchen

yes if you borrow more and more and live off credit or buy a house bigger than you can afford or even need then yes you'll be screwed. But with that lifestyle you'll be screwed anyway regardless of whether or not it will be a recession, depression, or a small bump in the road.

I think its actually pretty simple to prevent. Teach financial responsibility in schools. Too many people go to college, graduate from college, without the knowledge of how to budget, spend, and save accordingly so that they will live a economically healthier life.

You're only looking at one part of the picture. All the responsible financial planning doesn't counter the situation being bad. It's like being a doctor and having no medicine.

That's a common fallacy of the right, in fact. They're often very correct in some observations such as 'personal responsibility', but the fallacy is that they ignore the other factors.

If policy causes wages to go down 30%, then 'personal responsibility' will prevent additional harm, but the person is still on average going to lose 30%. Policy has to be addressed as well.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: maddogchen

yes if you borrow more and more and live off credit or buy a house bigger than you can afford or even need then yes you'll be screwed. But with that lifestyle you'll be screwed anyway regardless of whether or not it will be a recession, depression, or a small bump in the road.

I think its actually pretty simple to prevent. Teach financial responsibility in schools. Too many people go to college, graduate from college, without the knowledge of how to budget, spend, and save accordingly so that they will live a economically healthier life.

You're only looking at one part of the picture. All the responsible financial planning doesn't counter the situation being bad. It's like being a doctor and having no medicine.

That's a common fallacy of the right, in fact. They're often very correct in some observations such as 'personal responsibility', but the fallacy is that they ignore the other factors.

If policy causes wages to go down 30%, then 'personal responsibility' will prevent additional harm, but the person is still on average going to lose 30%. Policy has to be addressed as well.

yes, I was just focusing on issues we can control in our own daily lives.

Policy will be addressed coming this november when you go to the polls and pick a president. And when this current administration ends. But whether the new administration will be better than the current one, I can't forsee that far ahead. But our ability to influence policy is very limited. We can vote for the next President but what he choses to do is not always up to us.

Hopefully the new administration tackles our national debt, balance the budgets with none of this we'll pay for the war later stuff that Bush did earlier. Also stop borrowing from social security, tackle this unregulated oil and food speculation problem we seem to be having now, and cut government spending to repay what we owe. Also I want more accountability....and my wishlist goes on and on. But we rarely get all that we want.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: maddogchen
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: maddogchen

yes if you borrow more and more and live off credit or buy a house bigger than you can afford or even need then yes you'll be screwed. But with that lifestyle you'll be screwed anyway regardless of whether or not it will be a recession, depression, or a small bump in the road.

I think its actually pretty simple to prevent. Teach financial responsibility in schools. Too many people go to college, graduate from college, without the knowledge of how to budget, spend, and save accordingly so that they will live a economically healthier life.

You're only looking at one part of the picture. All the responsible financial planning doesn't counter the situation being bad. It's like being a doctor and having no medicine.

That's a common fallacy of the right, in fact. They're often very correct in some observations such as 'personal responsibility', but the fallacy is that they ignore the other factors.

If policy causes wages to go down 30%, then 'personal responsibility' will prevent additional harm, but the person is still on average going to lose 30%. Policy has to be addressed as well.

yes, I was just focusing on issues we can control in our own daily lives.

Policy will be addressed coming this november when you go to the polls and pick a president. And when this current administration ends. But whether the new administration will be better than the current one, I can't forsee that far ahead. But our ability to influence policy is very limited. We can vote for the next President but what he choses to do is not always up to us.

Hopefully the new administration tackles our national debt, balance the budgets with none of this we'll pay for the war later stuff that Bush did earlier. Also stop borrowing from social security, tackle this unregulated oil and food speculation problem we seem to be having now, and cut government spending to repay what we owe. Also I want more accountability....and my wishlist goes on and on. But we rarely get all that we want.

I'm not disagreeing with you on your part of the issue, but I wonder if you haven't hit on one of the differences between left and right, that the left sees the policy issues as part of a citizen's responsibility too, to be aware what's going on and to to vote for the government ot have the policies needed as well, while the right may ignore that part of the issue more and take a 'whatever they do they do' attitude.

Hence the left's outrage at the excesses fo the powerful while the right ignores it, and the right's outrage when the government gets involved in things.

IMO, being a citizens is more than the few minutes every election to vote. These policies are set on an ongoing basis, and the power structures are subject to change on an ongoing basis. The 'special interests' have people working full time, every day to push things their direction; the public needs to do the same, and the fact that it's not goes a long way to explaining why we have the problems we do.

Just today there was a vote involving the issue of the President violating the constitution and the law, and it wasn't a vote for impeachment but a vote for amnesty for his helpers.

How many citizens knew there was a vote, much less contacted their representative?

Citizens not using their power as citizens will see it atrphy and be in danger of removal as an unneeded appendage as the government serves those who are paying it attention.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
I can't believe that, more than a year into it already, many people still cannot see the full ramifications of the economic crisis that is upon us. This isn't about balancing checkbooks. This is about global banks that fscked up, and oil that has more than tripled in price.
 

Kuragami

Member
Jun 20, 2008
92
0
0
The question is how it will develop. I say this because depending on how the crash occurs it can swing the market back and forth in different ways.

It all depends on the Iran situation. Of course it would have occurred naturally given time but world events have forced the issue.

Either Iran is allowed to setup its oil exchange in Euros and other currency and will, supposedly, flood the market with cheap oil or Iran will be bombed into the 1930s to protect the US currency and the current oil for US Currency (debt) system.

If the first occurs then the oil market will shatter like a crystal vase. Gold and Silver will loose half their value overnight but it could soar higher initially as it's still denominated world wide in US Dollars which will collapse in sudden hyper inflation. This is definitely harder to predict. There will be a demand to denominate Gold not in US Dollars but in Euros or another currency. I wouldn't put it past them to pull out the Amero at this point. Seeing no other way out the population of North America will adopt it.

If the second occurs then the oil market will soar higher into the $200+ mark overnight and within months could hit $300+ and in a year perhaps higher. This of course could be offset by the closure of the Enron loophole but it wouldn't be enough to reset the price to realistic levels. Gold and Silver will skyrocket along with oil.

My personal opinion is that the later will occur because the IMF and World Bank have already dumped their Gold on the market. If war was coming then it would make more sense for them to wait and dump Gold on the market when it's much higher.

As an investor myself it's really though to decide what to put any money into. Who knows what a US currency collapse will mean to other currencies and the various markets especially when the oil market also implodes at the same time. I don't have much money so I can't cross invest in the different markets to win regardless of what happens. Either way the end result is the same. The person paying for all of this is the tax payer.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Kuragami

As an investor myself it's really though to decide what to put any money into. Who knows what a US currency collapse will mean to other currencies and the various markets especially when the oil market also implodes at the same time. I don't have much money so I can't cross invest in the different markets to win regardless of what happens. Either way the end result is the same. The person paying for all of this is the tax payer.

In the Great Depression, the second-tier wealthy got hit pretty hard in many cases, but some of the most wealthy got far wealthier by buying up assets at low prices.

We're seeing the milking of the middle class in the US now; what do you do after you milk them? You put them into debt.

The middle class has a pretty small % ownership of American's wealth now. The top 1% now owns more wealth than the bottom 90% combined.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Kuragami
The question is how it will develop. I say this because depending on how the crash occurs it can swing the market back and forth in different ways.

It all depends on the Iran situation. Of course it would have occurred naturally given time but world events have forced the issue.

Either Iran is allowed to setup its oil exchange in Euros and other currency and will, supposedly, flood the market with cheap oil or Iran will be bombed into the 1930s to protect the US currency and the current oil for US Currency (debt) system.

OK, I am going to have to stop you right there.

Why would Iran flood the market with cheap oil? Do you even understand how oil works? It's a global commodity with a price set by the highest bidder, not by a single producing country selling it below market value. The currency used to denominate the oil has no bearing on the price charged in other currencies. It's called Purchasing Power Parity.

If the first occurs then the oil market will shatter like a crystal vase. Gold and Silver will loose half their value overnight but it could soar higher initially as it's still denominated world wide in US Dollars which will collapse in sudden hyper inflation. This is definitely harder to predict. There will be a demand to denominate Gold not in US Dollars but in Euros or another currency. I wouldn't put it past them to pull out the Amero at this point. Seeing no other way out the population of North America will adopt it.
LOL, the USD won't collapse. If simply because the people holding any USD treasury reserves or debt will suddenly be screwed. Nobody wants to be stuck holding about 10tr in assets that are worthless. It's a stupid assumption. and again, highlights you know nothing about what yo're talking about.

If the second occurs then the oil market will soar higher into the $200+ mark overnight and within months could hit $300+ and in a year perhaps higher. This of course could be offset by the closure of the Enron loophole but it wouldn't be enough to reset the price to realistic levels. Gold and Silver will skyrocket along with oil.

My personal opinion is that the later will occur because the IMF and World Bank have already dumped their Gold on the market. If war was coming then it would make more sense for them to wait and dump Gold on the market when it's much higher.

As an investor myself it's really though to decide what to put any money into. Who knows what a US currency collapse will mean to other currencies and the various markets especially when the oil market also implodes at the same time. I don't have much money so I can't cross invest in the different markets to win regardless of what happens. Either way the end result is the same. The person paying for all of this is the tax payer.

The taxpayer isn't paying for anything. Oil won't go to 300 because nobody will pay that for it in the current situation. Again, mere doomsday BS.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Kuragami
The question is how it will develop. I say this because depending on how the crash occurs it can swing the market back and forth in different ways.

It all depends on the Iran situation. Of course it would have occurred naturally given time but world events have forced the issue.

Either Iran is allowed to setup its oil exchange in Euros and other currency and will, supposedly, flood the market with cheap oil or Iran will be bombed into the 1930s to protect the US currency and the current oil for US Currency (debt) system.

OK, I am going to have to stop you right there.

Why would Iran flood the market with cheap oil? Do you even understand how oil works? It's a global commodity with a price set by the highest bidder, not by a single producing country selling it below market value. The currency used to denominate the oil has no bearing on the price charged in other currencies. It's called Purchasing Power Parity.

If the first occurs then the oil market will shatter like a crystal vase. Gold and Silver will loose half their value overnight but it could soar higher initially as it's still denominated world wide in US Dollars which will collapse in sudden hyper inflation. This is definitely harder to predict. There will be a demand to denominate Gold not in US Dollars but in Euros or another currency. I wouldn't put it past them to pull out the Amero at this point. Seeing no other way out the population of North America will adopt it.
LOL, the USD won't collapse. If simply because the people holding any USD treasury reserves or debt will suddenly be screwed. Nobody wants to be stuck holding about 10tr in assets that are worthless. It's a stupid assumption. and again, highlights you know nothing about what yo're talking about.

Well as long as no one wants to see it happen then where all good right? Everyone have happy thoughts please so no bad things ever happen.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Kuragami
The question is how it will develop. I say this because depending on how the crash occurs it can swing the market back and forth in different ways.

It all depends on the Iran situation. Of course it would have occurred naturally given time but world events have forced the issue.

Either Iran is allowed to setup its oil exchange in Euros and other currency and will, supposedly, flood the market with cheap oil or Iran will be bombed into the 1930s to protect the US currency and the current oil for US Currency (debt) system.

OK, I am going to have to stop you right there.

Why would Iran flood the market with cheap oil? Do you even understand how oil works? It's a global commodity with a price set by the highest bidder, not by a single producing country selling it below market value. The currency used to denominate the oil has no bearing on the price charged in other currencies. It's called Purchasing Power Parity.

If the first occurs then the oil market will shatter like a crystal vase. Gold and Silver will loose half their value overnight but it could soar higher initially as it's still denominated world wide in US Dollars which will collapse in sudden hyper inflation. This is definitely harder to predict. There will be a demand to denominate Gold not in US Dollars but in Euros or another currency. I wouldn't put it past them to pull out the Amero at this point. Seeing no other way out the population of North America will adopt it.
LOL, the USD won't collapse. If simply because the people holding any USD treasury reserves or debt will suddenly be screwed. Nobody wants to be stuck holding about 10tr in assets that are worthless. It's a stupid assumption. and again, highlights you know nothing about what yo're talking about.

Well as long as no one wants to see it happen then where all good right? Everyone have happy thoughts please so no bad things ever happen.


Did I ever say we don't face challenges? I just think his scenarios are wholly ignorant of any reasonable economic and financial knowledge.
 

Kuragami

Member
Jun 20, 2008
92
0
0
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Kuragami
The question is how it will develop. I say this because depending on how the crash occurs it can swing the market back and forth in different ways.

It all depends on the Iran situation. Of course it would have occurred naturally given time but world events have forced the issue.

Either Iran is allowed to setup its oil exchange in Euros and other currency and will, supposedly, flood the market with cheap oil or Iran will be bombed into the 1930s to protect the US currency and the current oil for US Currency (debt) system.

OK, I am going to have to stop you right there.

Why would Iran flood the market with cheap oil? Do you even understand how oil works? It's a global commodity with a price set by the highest bidder, not by a single producing country selling it below market value. The currency used to denominate the oil has no bearing on the price charged in other currencies. It's called Purchasing Power Parity.

If the first occurs then the oil market will shatter like a crystal vase. Gold and Silver will loose half their value overnight but it could soar higher initially as it's still denominated world wide in US Dollars which will collapse in sudden hyper inflation. This is definitely harder to predict. There will be a demand to denominate Gold not in US Dollars but in Euros or another currency. I wouldn't put it past them to pull out the Amero at this point. Seeing no other way out the population of North America will adopt it.
LOL, the USD won't collapse. If simply because the people holding any USD treasury reserves or debt will suddenly be screwed. Nobody wants to be stuck holding about 10tr in assets that are worthless. It's a stupid assumption. and again, highlights you know nothing about what yo're talking about.

If the second occurs then the oil market will soar higher into the $200+ mark overnight and within months could hit $300+ and in a year perhaps higher. This of course could be offset by the closure of the Enron loophole but it wouldn't be enough to reset the price to realistic levels. Gold and Silver will skyrocket along with oil.

My personal opinion is that the later will occur because the IMF and World Bank have already dumped their Gold on the market. If war was coming then it would make more sense for them to wait and dump Gold on the market when it's much higher.

As an investor myself it's really though to decide what to put any money into. Who knows what a US currency collapse will mean to other currencies and the various markets especially when the oil market also implodes at the same time. I don't have much money so I can't cross invest in the different markets to win regardless of what happens. Either way the end result is the same. The person paying for all of this is the tax payer.

The taxpayer isn't paying for anything. Oil won't go to 300 because nobody will pay that for it in the current situation. Again, mere doomsday BS.

You clearly do not understand how the oil for debt system works. This system is primarily used in the Middle East. 20% of profits from oil roll back into USD from oil producing nations and they buy into the US debt. While they would indeed be screwed, as you say, when the system falls apart they may be able to offload it into another currency such as Euros. Currently OPEC has no interest in doing this as their nations enjoy US arms as well as other incentives to enrich themselves and hold power. Ending the oil for debt system is a huge question mark and no doubt OPEC nations would have to feel that the benefits of ending the system are greater than the risk involved. The US would never allow this unless there was a reason they wished it.

As for the taxpayer not paying for oil. Well you are clearly not familiar with the concept of oil = life. As of right now we depend on oil for virtually every facet of life. You would be hard pressed to point something out that isn't made from oil or oil byproducts and those that aren't require oil in its very production. I realize what you mean by not paying for it but you will have little choice. It takes decades to change the energy infrastructure of a nation so you can't realistically suggest that you won't be paying for high oil prices.

EDIT: As for why Iran would do this? They bought into the same system everyone else in the Middle East did. They want to stick it to the US and if they start selling oil in Euros the game is up as it would create a competing market. Regardless of what you say oil is priced n USD for a reason. You clearly do not understand why. You may yet learn it the hard way.
 

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/mon...&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

Barclays warns of a financial storm as Federal Reserve's credibility crumbles

Last Updated: 12:01am BST 28/06/2008

US central bank accused of unleashing an inflation shock that will rock financial markets, reports Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Barclays Capital has advised clients to batten down the hatches for a worldwide financial storm, warning that the US Federal Reserve has allowed the inflation genie out of the bottle and let its credibility fall "below zero".

"We're in a nasty environment," said Tim Bond, the bank's chief equity strategist. "There is an inflation shock underway. This is going to be very negative for financial assets. We are going into tortoise mood and are retreating into our shell. Investors will do well if they can preserve their wealth."

Barclays Capital said in its closely-watched Global Outlook that US headline inflation would hit 5.5pc by August and the Fed will have to raise interest rates six times by the end of next year to prevent a wage-spiral. If it hesitates, the bond markets will take matters into their own hands. "This is the first test for central banks in 30 years and they have fluffed it. They have zero credibility, and the Fed is negative if that's possible. It has lost all credibility," said Mr Bond.

Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke has made a huge policy mistake, according to Barclays
Strategists at Barclays accuse Ben Bernanke of a policy blunder
# RBS issues global crash alert
# Read more by Ambrose Evans Pritchard

The grim verdict on Ben Bernanke's Fed was underscored by the markets yesterday as the dollar fell against the euro following the bank's dovish policy statement on Wednesday.

Traders said the Fed seemed to be rowing back from rate rises. The effect was to propel oil to $138 a barrel, confirming its role as a sort of "anti-dollar" and as a market reproach to Washington's easy-money policies.

The Fed's stimulus is being transmitted to the 45-odd countries linked to the dollar around world. The result is surging commodity prices. Global inflation has jumped from 3.2pc to 5pc over the last year.

Mr Bond said the emerging world is now on the cusp of a serious crisis. "Inflation is out of control in Asia. Vietnam has already blown up. The policy response is to shoot the messenger, like the developed central banks in the late 1960s and 1970s," he said.

"They will have to slam on the brakes. There is going to be a deep global recession over the next three years as policy-makers try to get inflation back in the box."

Barclays Capital recommends outright "short" positions on Asian bonds, warning that yields could jump 200 to 300 basis points. The currencies of trade-deficit states like India should be sold. The US yield curve is likely to "steepen" with a vengeance, causing a bloodbath for bond holders.

David Woo, the bank's currency chief, said the Fed's policy of benign neglect towards the dollar had been stymied by oil, which is now eating deep into the country's standard of living. "The world has changed all of a sudden. The market is going to push the Fed into a tightening stance," he said.
# Gazprom chief expects 'radical' change in oil price
# More comment and analysis from The Telegraph

The bank said the full damage from the global banking crisis would take another year to unfold.

Rob McAdie, Barclays' credit strategist, said: "The core issues have not been addressed. We're still in a very large deleveraging cycle and we're seeing losses continue to mount. We think smaller banks will struggle to raise capital. We're very bearish - in the long-term - on high-yield debt. The default rate will reach 8pc to 9pc next year."

He said investors had taken their eye off the slow-motion disaster engulfing the US bond insurers or "monolines". Together these firms guarantee $170bn of structured credit and $1,000bn of US municipal bonds.

The two leaders - MBIA and Ambac - have already been downgraded as the rating agencies belatedly turn stringent. The risk is further downgrades could set off a fresh wave of bank troubles. "The creditworthiness of many US financial institutions will decline in coming months," he said.

The bank warned that engineering and auto firms we're likely to face a crunch as steel and oil costs surge. "Their business models will have to be substantially altered if they are going to survive," said Mr McAdie.

A small chorus of City bankers dissent from the view that inflation is the chief danger in the US and other rich OECD countries. The teams at Société Générale, Dresdner Kleinwort, and Banque AIG all warn that deflation may loom as housing markets crumble under record levels of household debt.

Bernard Connolly, global startegist at Banque AIG, said inflation targeting by central banks had become a "totemism that threatens to crush the world economy".

He said it would be madness to throw millions out of work by deflating part of the economy to offset a rise in imported fuel and food prices. Real wages are being squeezed by oil, come what may. It may be healthier for society to let it happen gently.