wtf? YAPSIFUT (Yet another patent system is...

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...ALL&S1=08676045&OS=PN/08676045&RS=PN/08676045

Amazon patented taking pictures a certain way with a white background. Seriously?? Now, what's to stop patent trolls from patenting a larger number of "types" of photography, with the aim of later suing anyone using images of their products for copyright infringement? So, flash from the front, flash from the back, white surface, and camera 9 feet away = patent violation.
 

ThatsABigOne

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
4,422
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Not surprising. There are a lot problems with the current patent system, most vocal of which is the Apple vs Samsung saga.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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I think patents are rapidly coming to mean whatever huge corporations want them to mean. In the future they will just ride up and shout "Prima Noctae!" and take your stuff.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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Looking over the document, it sounds pretty specific. Are you opposed to patents in any form?

Except it doesn't sound like this is an invention.

Has anybody patented the MySpace angle yet? "A method for photographing fat and ugly women such that they appear attractive."
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Looking over the document, it sounds pretty specific. Are you opposed to patents in any form?

I simply don't think a specific (though general) way to take photos should be patentable. It would be like patenting fishing - "We have the patent on casting a replica of a 4-5" fish in either gold or silverish color, to a distance between 30 and 40 feet, containing 2 treble hooks, attached to the line with a snap swivel at the end of a short steel leader." Sure, it's specific - but patentable??
 

CrimsonWolf

Senior member
Oct 28, 2000
867
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Thanks to that stick figure in the picture, if someone just showed me that picture with no context, I would think it's from xkcd making fun of the patent process.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
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That is seriously messed up. So if I put my camera here, my subject here, use this size lense, use this color background, use this size light.... BAM, patent, no one can ever do that again?

Can I also patent a method of diving, when to tuck, when to turn, when to flip? What the hell? Is the USPTO made up of a bunch of drooling fuckwits?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
yeah patents system needs a overhaul. it's getting fucking nuts.
 

Hoober

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2001
4,380
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That is seriously messed up. So if I put my camera here, my subject here, use this size lense, use this color background, use this size light.... BAM, patent, no one can ever do that again?

Can I also patent a method of diving, when to tuck, when to turn, when to flip? What the hell? Is the USPTO made up of a bunch of drooling fuckwits?

Not sure they're capable of drooling.
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
5,401
2
0
Hmm... can I take out a patent for "the concept of patenting intellectual property and ideas in effort to prevent all other businesses and individuals from profiting from said property or ideas?" :hmm:
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
I want to patent the process of filing for patents!

I'd make sooooo much money off these greedy bastards!
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...ALL&S1=08676045&OS=PN/08676045&RS=PN/08676045

Amazon patented taking pictures a certain way with a white background. Seriously?? Now, what's to stop patent trolls from patenting a larger number of "types" of photography, with the aim of later suing anyone using images of their products for copyright infringement? So, flash from the front, flash from the back, white surface, and camera 9 feet away = patent violation.

First - Here are the three independent claims of the patent you cited -

1. A studio arrangement, comprising: a background comprising a white cyclorama; a front light source positioned in a longitudinal axis intersecting the background, the longitudinal axis further being substantially perpendicular to a surface of the white cyclorama; an image capture position located between the background and the front light source in the longitudinal axis, the image capture position comprising at least one image capture device equipped with an eighty-five millimeter lens, the at least one image capture device further configured with an ISO setting of about three hundred twenty and an f-stop value of about 5.6; an elevated platform positioned between the image capture position and the background in the longitudinal axis, the front light source being directed toward a subject on the elevated platform; a first rear light source aimed at the background and positioned between the elevated platform and the background in the longitudinal axis, the first rear light source positioned below a top surface of the elevated platform and oriented at an upward angle relative to a floor level; a second rear light source aimed at the background and positioned between the elevated platform and the background in the longitudinal axis, the second rear light source positioned above the top surface of the elevated platform and oriented at a downward angle relative to the floor level; a third rear light source aimed at the background and positioned in a lateral axis intersecting the elevated platform and being substantially perpendicular to the longitudinal axis, the third rear light source further positioned adjacent to a side of the elevated platform; and a fourth rear light source aimed at the background and positioned in the lateral axis adjacent to an opposing side of the elevated platform relative to the third rear light source; wherein a top surface of the elevated platform reflects light emanating from the background such that the elevated platform appears white and a rear edge of the elevated platform is substantially imperceptible to the image capture device; and the first rear light source, the second rear light source, the third rear light source, and the fourth rear light source comprise a combined intensity greater than the front light source according to about a 10:3 ratio.

2. A studio arrangement, comprising: a background comprising a cyclorama; a front light source positioned in a longitudinal axis intersecting the background, the longitudinal axis further being substantially perpendicular to a surface of the background; an image capture position located between the background and the front light source in the longitudinal axis; an elevated platform positioned at a first distance from the elevated platform and between the image capture position and the background along the longitudinal axis, the front light source being directed toward the elevated platform; a first at least one rear light source positioned between the elevated platform and the background, the at least one rear light source directed towards the background; a second at least one rear light source positioned in a lateral axis intersecting the elevated platform and being substantially perpendicular to the longitudinal axis; at least one light shield positioned between the second at least one rear light source and the elevated platform, the at least one light shield configured to shield the elevated platform from light emitted directly from the second at least one rear light source from lighting an upper surface of the elevated platform; and wherein a top surface of the elevated platform reflects light emanating from the background such that the elevated platform appears a substantially similar color as the background and a rear edge of the elevated platform is substantially imperceptible to an image capture device positioned at the image capture position.

25. A method, comprising: positioning a subject on an elevated platform in a studio arrangement, the studio arrangement comprising a plurality of rear light sources positioned behind the elevated platform and aimed at a background behind the elevated platform, the background comprising a cyclorama; activating the plurality of rear light sources, the plurality of rear light sources comprising a plurality of light sources being substantially evenly distributed over the background; activating a front light source aimed at the subject, wherein an image capture position is positioned between the front light source and the elevated platform; initiating image capture in an image capture device positioned at the image capture position; shielding the subject from light directly emanating from the plurality of rear light sources onto the subject; and wherein a top surface of the elevated platform reflects light emanating from the background such that the elevated platform appears a substantially similar color as the background and a rear edge of the elevated platform is substantially imperceptible to the image capture device.


Second - There is a hell of a lot of stuff in those claims. They did not patent a basic studio arrangement or method. They patented things with ~20 very specific elements in it. How they plan to enforce either of those claims is a mystery to me. Doesn't seem like it would be possible to determine who is infringing from the photos that are taken. Which means that unless amazon goes into every photo studio they will probably have a tough time making a reasonable determination as to who is infringing their claims.

Third - to answer your question - the thing that is preventing "trolls" from patenting basic methods of taking photos is most likely the existence of prior art. A quick search of the U.S. patent database reveals patents with the word "photography" in them were issued at least as early as 1890. And some of those patents were for "basic" things like mirrors, flashes, etc. Only that at the time those patents were granted, the technology they described was not basic at all. Tell me - was it wrong to patent that stuff back then?


https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US935760.pdf
 
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Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
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Except it doesn't sound like this is an invention.

Has anybody patented the MySpace angle yet? "A method for photographing fat and ugly women such that they appear attractive."

And what is "an invention" to you?

The U.S. Patent law says it is something that meets the requirements of 35 USC 101, 102, 103 and 112 - Basically it has to be patent eligible subject matter, it has to be new (novel), non-obvious, defined in claims that are clear enough to allow someone to ascertain what constitutes infringement, and supported by a specification that is detailed enough to make and use the claimed invention without undue experimentation.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
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That is seriously messed up. So if I put my camera here, my subject here, use this size lense, use this color background, use this size light.... BAM, patent, no one can ever do that again?

Can I also patent a method of diving, when to tuck, when to turn, when to flip? What the hell? Is the USPTO made up of a bunch of drooling fuckwits?

Patent rights in the U.S. are of limited duration. With limited exception, most U.S. patents will remain in force for 20 years from the date of filing, provided the patentee pays the required maintenance fees.

As for your question, you could (at least theoretically) patent a sporting technique such as a method of diving. There are existing patents on sporting techniques, such as this one:

http://www.google.com/patents/US5776016?dq=golf+putting+technique
 
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Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
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I simply don't think a specific (though general) way to take photos should be patentable. It would be like patenting fishing - "We have the patent on casting a replica of a 4-5" fish in either gold or silverish color, to a distance between 30 and 40 feet, containing 2 treble hooks, attached to the line with a snap swivel at the end of a short steel leader." Sure, it's specific - but patentable??

Are you arguing that methods of photography should not be patent eligible subject matter? Or that they should not be "patentable?"