WTF? Why wasn't that jerk fired?

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BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
why not look at it from the pharmacists point of view?(or as usual just do not and call yourself "open minded" anyway) maybe he did not want to be what in his mind an accomplice to murder...but then again why should his idea of morality be important when we have PC to be morality instead to be pushed on the masses.
I did look at it from the pharmacists point of view. And he's still wrong. If he filled the 'script immediately he reduces the likelihood that she induces a failed implantation . . . as I note above . . . MOST doctors don't call that an abortion. But even if they did . . . it is highly unlikely that Plan B works well by inhibiting implantation.

Looking for a warm place to lay my zygote
Allen J. Wilcox of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences in Research Triangle Park, N.C., and his colleagues recruited 221 women who were about to stop using birth control because they wanted to become pregnant. From the concentrations of certain hormones in urine, the researchers could determine the day a woman ovulated. "We collected about 20,000 urine specimens. That's a lot of women collecting urine every morning and putting it into freezers," laughs Wilcox.

As the researchers describe in the June 10 NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, they followed 189 women after conception. In almost all the women, the egg implanted 6 to 12 days after ovulation. The later the time of implantation, however, the more likely it became that the fetus would not survive its first 6 weeks. Indeed, no egg implanting after 12 days endured that initial period, let alone produced a live birth.
Plan B has less than a 72hr window b/c it's function is to impair fertilization NOT implantation.

kudo's to the pharmacist for not letting himself to be forced to act against his moral beliefs in the name of political correctness and the nazi hypocrites who try to force it on everyone else.
I think you are arguing something very different from the situation described. I don't know anyone that doesn't wish for abortion to be a relic of the past. But the best way to reduce unwanted pregnancies is to avoid pregnancy. Abstinence and sterilization work like a charm. Next comes barrier methods and various hormonal regimens. Plan B is emergency contraception for failure of one of the above (granted I'm not sure how you would know about sterilization). The only time Plan B has the potential to act as a pseudo-abortifacent is if administration is delayed. It is incumbent upon the doctor writing the prescription to determine if Plan B is appropriate as opposed to an abortifacent protocol. If this pharmacist's morals REQUIRE him to deny conception control to women then I hope he bans the sale of condoms and nonoxyl-9 as well. If it's only abortifacents he abhors then he grossly failed his responsibility as a pharmacist in this case.





 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: KK
I thought that the morning after pill was not an abortion? Listening to Loveline, they say it just suppresses ovulation or something like that.

KK

we may be talking about 2 different "morning after" pills. i am refering to RU486 which does not "prevent" pregnancy, but is designed as an early term abortion method. when the article in the original post described it as "the morning after abortion pill" i believe that was what was referenced. also i do not see how an ovulation inhibiter will prevent an embyo from sustaining further cell division since not only has ovulation already occured, but so has fertilization.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Another situation where a Fund A Mental Case Whacko projects his own morals on someone else. He should not only be fired, he should have his license revoked!

ahhh, i have been gone a long time(playing lots of cal of duty and working)


did you notice the irony/self contradiction of your statement? of course not...your to busy pushing your ideas on others yourself to notice.

i suppose it also goes unnoticed by the baby killing whackos that murdering a baby just because the mother was raped is somehow "morally acceptable" and the idea is pushed on others by people who say you should not push your morals on soemone else... the baby did not do anything, why kill it? is it somehow the baby's fault and thus deserving the death penalty?

why not look at it from the pharmacists point of view?(or as usual just do not and call yourself "open minded" anyway) maybe he did not want to be what in his mind an accomplice to murder...but then again why should his idea of morality be important when we have PC to be morality instead to be pushed on the masses.

to date almost 50 million babies have been murdered, and only 1% were actually "medically neccesary" to preserve the life of the mother.

kudo's to the pharmacist for not letting himself to be forced to act against his moral beliefs in the name of political correctness and the nazi hypocrites who try to force it on everyone else.
Hey Chief, we are takinbg about a Birth Control Pill not an Abortion Pill


Morning-after pills have been sold under the brand names Plan B and Preven since 1998. Taken within 72 hours of sexual intercourse, the hormone pills are at least 75 percent effective at preventing pregnancy.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Another situation where a Fund A Mental Case Whacko projects his own morals on someone else. He should not only be fired, he should have his license revoked!

ahhh, i have been gone a long time(playing lots of cal of duty and working)


did you notice the irony/self contradiction of your statement? of course not...your to busy pushing your ideas on others yourself to notice.

i suppose it also goes unnoticed by the baby killing whackos that murdering a baby just because the mother was raped is somehow "morally acceptable" and the idea is pushed on others by people who say you should not push your morals on soemone else... the baby did not do anything, why kill it? is it somehow the baby's fault and thus deserving the death penalty?

why not look at it from the pharmacists point of view?(or as usual just do not and call yourself "open minded" anyway) maybe he did not want to be what in his mind an accomplice to murder...but then again why should his idea of morality be important when we have PC to be morality instead to be pushed on the masses.

to date almost 50 million babies have been murdered, and only 1% were actually "medically neccesary" to preserve the life of the mother.

kudo's to the pharmacist for not letting himself to be forced to act against his moral beliefs in the name of political correctness and the nazi hypocrites who try to force it on everyone else.
Hey Chief, we are takinbg about a Birth Control Pill not an Abortion Pill


Morning-after pills have been sold under the brand names Plan B and Preven since 1998. Taken within 72 hours of sexual intercourse, the hormone pills are at least 75 percent effective at preventing pregnancy.
Don't call him Chief, he hasn't even come close to earning it.

 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Another situation where a Fund A Mental Case Whacko projects his own morals on someone else. He should not only be fired, he should have his license revoked!

ahhh, i have been gone a long time(playing lots of cal of duty and working)


did you notice the irony/self contradiction of your statement? of course not...your to busy pushing your ideas on others yourself to notice.

i suppose it also goes unnoticed by the baby killing whackos that murdering a baby just because the mother was raped is somehow "morally acceptable" and the idea is pushed on others by people who say you should not push your morals on soemone else... the baby did not do anything, why kill it? is it somehow the baby's fault and thus deserving the death penalty?

why not look at it from the pharmacists point of view?(or as usual just do not and call yourself "open minded" anyway) maybe he did not want to be what in his mind an accomplice to murder...but then again why should his idea of morality be important when we have PC to be morality instead to be pushed on the masses.

to date almost 50 million babies have been murdered, and only 1% were actually "medically neccesary" to preserve the life of the mother.

kudo's to the pharmacist for not letting himself to be forced to act against his moral beliefs in the name of political correctness and the nazi hypocrites who try to force it on everyone else.
Hey Chief, we are takinbg about a Birth Control Pill not an Abortion Pill


Morning-after pills have been sold under the brand names Plan B and Preven since 1998. Taken within 72 hours of sexual intercourse, the hormone pills are at least 75 percent effective at preventing pregnancy.
Don't call him Chief, he hasn't even come close to earning it.

 

HorizonSeeker

Member
Dec 11, 2002
63
0
0
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
in china,...lesson.

it's an "after birth" abortion

Is this true?

I think if you stay long enough, you'll find out the rei is the resident moron on this board. although I have to say lately I haven't heard quite as much crap from him as a while ago.

I guess all those parents with 2 kids or more in China are just imaging the whole thing? and yes, I've been there and know some of the families, so unless you have been there and witnessed it, why don't you actually back it up with unbiased sources instead of spewing crap.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,672
5,145
126
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I'm not talking about this guy in particular, I'm talking about a broader question of whether morality should have any bearing on how someone conducts themselves professionally.
Physicians . . . well some physicians lie (or fudge) b/c if they don't some patients will not get the services they need. Lying is certainly always unethical but in these cases the rules do not serve the patient . . . they serve some system. Denial of necessary (but not emergent) care is immoral but our healthcare system has a variety of rules that make such denial of care . . . ethical.

Plan B . . . I forget the name of the other one in the US
How does Plan B work?
Plan B is believed to act as an emergency contraceptive principally by delaying ovulation or preventing fertilization. In addition, it may inhibit implantation by altering the endometrium. Plan B is not effective if a woman is pregnant. Plan B is contraception and cannot terminate an established pregnancy.
Medicine . . . and in particular . . . pharmacology is an evolving (yet inexact) science. Even if you believe life begins at fertilization, Plan B is still most likely acting as conception control NOT birth control (abortifacent). Assuming all of the above actions occur with Plan B, then by his actions . . . the pharmacist actually INCREASED the odds that Plan B would induce an abortion instead of being conception control.

EDIT for clarity: Plan B activity:
1) Delays ovulation: No egg . . . no fertilization . . . no pregnancy.
1') Prevents fertilization: Mucking up the physiological changes necessary to make the egg receptive to sperm penetration . . . no fertilization . . . no pregnancy.
2) Inhibits implantation: Now it gets interesting. Plan B impairs implantation. No implantation leads to loss of zygote. It's an open debate about whether that's an abortion. My understanding is that most OB/Gyns do NOT consider failed implantation to be an abortion/miscarriage. But for anyone guided by their religious principle of conception . . . clearly this would probably qualify as abortion.
3) Plan B is NOT an abortifacent per se: If the egg is fertilized and implants in the endometrium. You be pregnant. You will get all the side effects of taking Plan B but it will not change the natural history of pregnancy. Unlike RU-486 (mifepristone) which is indeed a straight up abortifacent.

The dramatic (time-dependent) fall off in efficacy for Plan B favors 1 and 1' as the primary mechanisms of action. #2 cannot be ruled out but that just makes a case for making Plan B OTC. If you are not opposed to other forms of contraception then VERY early use of Plan B is nothing controversial.

The take home message is that this pharmacist should be quided by knowledge, his ethical responsibility to serve patients in need, and his morality. IMHO, his lack of knowledge is the problem not his morality. Granted, he helps highlight the issue of why pharmacists should have minimal control over prescription drug utilization.

Studies of Plan B
Isn't this elitist? Why the very idea of being guided by knowledge scares me to death.

Ultra Quiet. Interesting questions. I think morality better guide us in out work. What is morality, by the way? There's just no end to questions.

Another way to look at this is what if the situation was over penicillin.
 

BugsBunny1078

Banned
Jan 11, 2004
910
0
0
Pharmacists are a pretty high demand field and companies to work for are a dime a dozen for them.
He can work anywhere he wants to without giving out abortion or morning after pills.He won't be fired for that he probably got a warning which will never be enforced if he does it again and again and again.
A job is nothing anyways, it is meaningless. What counts is God, Heaven and getting to them.
If he got fired he could easily sue and win for it but he wouldn't have to since he would have another job the same day.
Then the pharmacy would probably have to close down until they found a new pharmacist. Well I think money talks bubba and shutting down the pharmacy over this seems less appealing than referring the woman to one of their other branches or whatever to keep their pharmacist.
That is reality.
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
You shouldn't do anything you consider wrong no matter the consequences. Hats off to the fellow. WHy should he be forced to give out abortion pills if he feels it is wrong. They have no other pharmacies or pharmacists?
Next thing you guys will be saying that doctors should be forced to perform abortions whther they like it or not.I wouldnt give someone an abortion pill either.
And he should be prepared to suffer the consequences. IMO firing is extreme, but he should be suspended without pay for his actions.
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
seriously, what type of doctor can go around all day puncturing babies' skulls with needles? guess they don't take the medical oath over there. let's hope their robots follow asimov.
Damn, that's horrible. I support abortion when all you're talking about is a bundle of cells but this is a live human being...

Then again, harsh measures are needed when you already have to support a billion and a half people.

 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,403
11,579
136
One funny thing. Did anyone notice that the woman had to go to several pharmacies before going to the one in question because those other pharmacies didn't even carry the drug? Should we be protesting against them too?
 

Fatdog

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2000
1,001
0
76
I find it equally interesting that the pharmacy has a drug the pharmacist refuses to dispense.

Why bother stocking it?
 

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