WTF Was Bush supposed to do?

[sapiens74]

I am no fan of either party but when you have the CIA, Russia, Isreal and the UK all telling you that Saddam is a threat what the hell was he supposed to do?

We say on one hand he wasn't proactive enough to prevent 9/11 then he is told by every credible inteligence agency on the planet that Saddam had weapons and may sell or use them.

I don't agree with the way Iraq h as been handled, but how in the world after 9/11 was he supposed to hear all that so called proof from so many sources and not act on it?

Democrats including Kerry and Edwards and Clinton (Bill) came to the same conclusions.

You cannot fault one man for believeing what everyone else believed and told him.

you can however blame him for the way he's handled it.

But when I hear "What about WMD's" Those are the same weapons the whole world thought he had, and the best intilligence agencies in the world assured him so.

 

[Siddhartha]

He could have waited until the weapon inspectors finished before he invaded Iraq. GWB went into thie situation wanting to invade Iraq and used everything to justify doing it.

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
He could have waited until the weapon inspectors finished before he invaded Iraq. GWB went into thie situation wanting to invade Iraq and used everything to justify doing it.

Finish? Is such a thing even possible...I wasn't aware that the never ending story had a conclusion to it.

13 years.....Three Presidents later......back to square one.......Clintons grandkids would have become president before any final assesment could have been made against Iraq.

I believe patience is a virtue, don't get me wrong....but I could hear Ghandi screaming hurry the f*ck up already.

 

[BadKatz]

Bush is only one man. The weight of the world sits on his shoulders every single day for at least four years. I sure as hell would not want that job, no matter how much prestige or money it would create.

There will always be good and evil. He thought he would be doing good by beating evil Saddam. I am sure that there were a considerable number factors to why Bush chose to oust Saddam. Pressure from the Cabinet, CIA, his DAD, US allies, and his own conscience. Those who serve in the Armed Forces have proudly chosen to serve their country and follow the leader. Even as a 30 year old mom, I would lay my life down for my country in a heartbeat. (God first, family second, country third). Do not blame any leader man for the deaths of our troops. (During the draft, yes...)

There will always be history and historical critics. (We could forever argue: Reformation (new church formed), Slavery, Vietnam, the 2000 election, why Jay Leno got the job and David Letterman didn't...) What can we do today to improve on our way of life and the lives of others? This is the ultimate question that people in power ask themselves constantly. Bush may or may not have had his own agenda, but as President, he has the power to try improve the way of life for his country and other countries. As do all presidents before and after him.

Will we look back on the passing of time as what we did FOR each other or what we did TO each other? I can only pray that our leaders/lawmakers/law-enforcers have OUR best interests in mind when making such decisions.

 

[sandorski]

This is utter BS. Bush is running around sayin, "My dog ate my homework" while the year he was building up to invade Iraq the evidence against Iraqi WMD was piling up. The CIA even had to notify that the Bush Admin was wrong on some of its' claims numerous times. The much vaunted Nigerian connection was shot down and the infamous CIA Operative leak was made to silence the Ambassador who found that link to be bogus. The UN Inspectors were turning up nothing, but that didn't deter Bush.

No, the CIA isn't at fault here, the blame lies squarely at Bush.

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is utter BS. Bush is running around sayin, "My dog ate my homework" while the year he was building up to invade Iraq the evidence against Iraqi WMD was piling up. The CIA even had to notify that the Bush Admin was wrong on some of its' claims numerous times. The much vaunted Nigerian connection was shot down and the infamous CIA Operative leak was made to silence the Ambassador who found that link to be bogus. The UN Inspectors were turning up nothing, but that didn't deter Bush.

No, the CIA isn't at fault here, the blame lies squarely at Bush.

I wonder why Congress approved a war that was made up by entirely one man? I wonder why every single person who has ran for President, or is currently running for President, since the Gulf War ended, has been making the same argument Bush was, verbatim, prior to the war actually taking place?

Either Bush is one master manipulator (which after watching him speak I don?t believe), or the information coming out of Iraq has been faulty for a very long time.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Mockery

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is utter BS. Bush is running around sayin, "My dog ate my homework" while the year he was building up to invade Iraq the evidence against Iraqi WMD was piling up. The CIA even had to notify that the Bush Admin was wrong on some of its' claims numerous times. The much vaunted Nigerian connection was shot down and the infamous CIA Operative leak was made to silence the Ambassador who found that link to be bogus. The UN Inspectors were turning up nothing, but that didn't deter Bush.

No, the CIA isn't at fault here, the blame lies squarely at Bush.

I wonder why Congress approved a war that was made up by entirely one man? I wonder why every single person who has ran for President, or is currently running for President, since the Gulf War ended, has been making the same argument Bush was, verbatim, prior to the war actually taking place?

Either Bush is one master manipulator (which after watching him speak I don?t believe), or the information coming out of Iraq has been faulty for a very long time.

Perhaps the initial Intel provided(before the buildup began) was incorrect, but during that entire time the Intel was being shot down. By the time he started the invasion there was nothing left to justify it.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Bush's excuse was that the U.S. was in immediate danger, no delay could be tolerated. Even with his bogus intel, that was a lie and he knew it when he said it.

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Mockery

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is utter BS. Bush is running around sayin, "My dog ate my homework" while the year he was building up to invade Iraq the evidence against Iraqi WMD was piling up. The CIA even had to notify that the Bush Admin was wrong on some of its' claims numerous times. The much vaunted Nigerian connection was shot down and the infamous CIA Operative leak was made to silence the Ambassador who found that link to be bogus. The UN Inspectors were turning up nothing, but that didn't deter Bush.

No, the CIA isn't at fault here, the blame lies squarely at Bush.

I wonder why Congress approved a war that was made up by entirely one man? I wonder why every single person who has ran for President, or is currently running for President, since the Gulf War ended, has been making the same argument Bush was, verbatim, prior to the war actually taking place?

Either Bush is one master manipulator (which after watching him speak I don?t believe), or the information coming out of Iraq has been faulty for a very long time.

Perhaps the initial Intel provided(before the buildup began) was incorrect, but during that entire time the Intel was being shot down. By the time he started the invasion there was nothing left to justify it.

I personally believe that the tide and overall consensus about Iraqs WMD only started shifting after we were already in Iraq. Immediately before the war in Iraq all the major politicians on Capital Hill basically believed the information they were being shown.

Some examples????

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America?s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

If you don't believe ... Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldn't vote for me." -- USA Today on 2/13/03

"Iraq may not be the war on terror itself, but it is critical to the outcome of the war on terror, and therefore any advance in Iraq is an advance forward in that..." -- John Kerry 12/15/03

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

---------------------------------------------------

Rather frightening if you think about it. Apparently this current war with Iraq was inevitable no matter who took office. This is why I believe this problem is far more severe than an administration flickup.

How the war has been handled, on the other hand, and to what extent it was carried out is a different story.

 

[smashp]

the President Screwed up, the congress and senate screwed up, and the intelligence community screwed up.


They all botched it and failed to perform their duties to the country in one way or another.


But of the Three, Which group isnt elected, doesnt Campaign, doesnt need votes. That where the blame will lie.

 

[Spencer278]

Ok lets see once piece of intel, that wasn't discredited, from when Bush was president that proves Saddam had WMD?

Until it is produced you can not blame the inteligence agences for Bush thinking Saddam had WMD.

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: Spencer278
Ok lets see once piece of intel, that wasn't discredited, from when Bush was president that proves Saddam had WMD?

Until it is produced you can not blame the inteligence agences for Bush thinking Saddam had WMD.

Show me a single piece of evidence that was actually created by Bush's administration and I may be able to do so. Last I checked Colin Powell wasn't combing Iraq with a magnifying glass and a scientific notebook. Every single piece of information that led up to the war against Iraq came from some place else. Our Executive Branch isn?t in the business of creating intelligence, that?s what organizations such as the CIA are for. If it doesn?t come from them it?s imported from foreign intelligence agencies, and yes this even includes the U.N..

BTW: http://intelligence.senate.gov/conclusions.pdf

Some of you people arguing otherwise may want to take a gander at the Senate Intelligence Committees official report that basically exonerates the White House and put the majority of the prewar intelligence blame on the CIA, along with other intelligence gathering entities.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Mockery

Originally posted by: Spencer278
Ok lets see once piece of intel, that wasn't discredited, from when Bush was president that proves Saddam had WMD?

Until it is produced you can not blame the inteligence agences for Bush thinking Saddam had WMD.

Show me a single piece of evidence that was actually created by Bush's administration and I may be able to do so. Last I checked Colin Powell wasn't combing Iraq with a magnifying glass with a scientific notebook. Every single piece of information that led up to the war against Iraq came from some place else. Our Executive Branch isn?t in the business of creating intelligence, that?s what organizations such as the CIA are for. If it doesn?t come from them it?s imported from foreign intelligence agencies, and yes this even includes the U.N..

Thats the problem Bush didn't look for any intel. he just went buy what clinition knew 6 years ago.

 

[Mockery]

http://intelligence.senate.gov/conclusions.pdf

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Mockery
http://intelligence.senate.gov/conclusions.pdf

I'm sorry it seems the intel was even older then I guessed

At the time the IC drafted and coordinated the NIE on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction(WMD) program in September 2002, most of what intelligence analysts actually knew about Iraq's weapons program pre-dated the 1991 Gulf War, leaving them with very little direct knowledge about the current state of those programs.

 

[jackschmittusa]

The collecting of information does not produce much in the way of usable intellegence. The analysis and interpretation of that collected information does. It almost seems incredable that so much info was run through so many filters in the intellegence community and yielded such consistantly bad results. Not only bad, but uniform in their conclusions. I liken it to a group where each member adds 2 numbers. The first adds 1 and 8, the second 2 and 7, the next 3 and 6, and so on. And they all come up with 4.26! I would like an explination of how our our intel got to the point that it did without some specific guidance.

 

[Mockery]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mockery
http://intelligence.senate.gov/conclusions.pdf

I'm sorry it seems the intel was even older then I guessed

At the time the IC drafted and coordinated the NIE on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction(WMD) program in September 2002, most of what intelligence analysts actually knew about Iraq's weapons program pre-dated the 1991 Gulf War, leaving them with very little direct knowledge about the current state of those programs.

So did you have equal indignation for the 1998 bombing campaigns against Iraq, or are you one of those elitist bickerers?.......

 

[arsbanned]

Bush is deluded. He thinks he can get away with attacking a sovereign country with impunity. There was no genuine basis for attacking Iraq. He should be impeached, but I will settle for him leaving office vouluntarily after the next election.
Then we can spend the next 50 years cleaning up his mess.:disgust:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Congress was covering it's ass as well as the Presidents. There WERE people who were voicing objections who were ignored. Remember the reaction to the Army College report critical of this war? Something very much like this "If it's not supportive of our position, it's not going to be read".

That has been this administration's take. Choose what you like, and ignore the rest.

Intel is not evidence, it's intel. There was no new information coming out of Iraq.

Look at Joe Wilson and his CIA wife. There is also Sibel Edmonds who is a former FBI translator. She found shenanigans going on at the FBI regarding pre 9/11, and who got fired for her concerns. She went to Congress which investigated the matter, and in the public record the FBI admitted to her accusations. She then brought suit which was dismissed by a judge who said he could not even look at that evidence because Ashcroft invoked the state secret act, making the public record which was widely distributed classified, thereby protecting all involved. George Orwell is rolling over in his grave on this one.

Bush was deceived like Johnson was about the Gulf of Tonkin.

Much has been made of what former administrations believed. Well they didn't buy it to the degree that they had a war.

Bush and the others used this as an excuse. They are a secretive vindictive group who either are pathological liars or criminally stupid. In any case these people need to go.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
He could have waited until the weapon inspectors finished before he invaded Iraq. GWB went into thie situation wanting to invade Iraq and used everything to justify doing it.

Had saddam acted liked he had nothing to hide, this all would likely have been avoided. But he played his old tricked and acted like he has something to hide. After 13 years of this game, the right thing was done.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
He could have waited until the weapon inspectors finished before he invaded Iraq. GWB went into thie situation wanting to invade Iraq and used everything to justify doing it.

Had saddam acted liked he had nothing to hide, this all would likely have been avoided. But he played his old tricked and acted like he has something to hide. After 13 years of this game, the right thing was done.

We went in and starting killing people. War isn't a grudge football game. We take people and kill them.

We did the wrong thing. For generations, other means (some good and some not) were used in other regions. Sometimes we just contained a threat. Saddam was powerless. We didn't go to war with Saddam, that is BS. He is still alive, but here are a lot of kids without parents or limbs at the hands of Bush.

We could have locked him down. We had pulled his fangs. Look at the military of Iraq this last time. Pitiful threat.

We went to war when we did not need to. Saddam gave us the finger and we killed for it.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
He could have waited until the weapon inspectors finished before he invaded Iraq. GWB went into thie situation wanting to invade Iraq and used everything to justify doing it.

Had saddam acted liked he had nothing to hide, this all would likely have been avoided. But he played his old tricked and acted like he has something to hide. After 13 years of this game, the right thing was done.

We went in and starting killing people. War isn't a grudge football game. We take people and kill them.

We did the wrong thing. For generations, other means (some good and some not) were used in other regions. Sometimes we just contained a threat. Saddam was powerless. We didn't go to war with Saddam, that is BS. He is still alive, but here are a lot of kids without parents or limbs at the hands of Bush.

We could have locked him down. We had pulled his fangs. Look at the military of Iraq this last time. Pitiful threat.

We went to war when we did not need to. Saddam gave us the finger and we killed for it.

And remember before the war, the US was blamed for the sanctions on Iraq which were killing 500k Iraqi children every year. Also remember how well sanctions have worked on North Korea.

This should have been done during Gulf war I, but the internation community lacked the courage to do it then as well.

 

[Jhhnn]

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill laid it out in his book. Three weeks into his new Administration, the President's attitude about invading Iraq was "Find Me A Way." 9/11, and any sort of tenuous linkeage to that event and or/the perps, or to the concept of terrorism in general provided that way...

At some primal level, the public yearned for r@ghead blood, and that sentiment was ruthlessly exploited to pursue an agenda unrelated to 9/11. I suspect that some realization that such sentiment existed within our hearts and that it was so easily turned to base purposes is the basis for some of the current recriminations. The realization that we've been conned has been slow in coming, but will hopefully arrive full-force on election day. As a nation, we were tricked, frightened, and exploited into complicity for something we wouldn't have otherwise countenanced....

Shame on you, Dubya.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Bush's excuse was that the U.S. was in immediate danger, no delay could be tolerated. Even with his bogus intel, that was a lie and he knew it when he said it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Bush has taken the US from being a champion of the rule of law on the highest moral plane to being a filthy aggressor nation. That piece of sh!t should rot in hell for that. He should go down in history as a traitor and enemy of our nation. He is nothing but a mafia don. The damage Bush has done to our reputation as a nation is incalculable. He has opened us up to preemptive attack and any nation who does so will be as justified as Bush pretended to be.

The war was not about WMD or threat. It was about the New Century of American Imperialism, the one where we become Nazi Germany and the rest of the world turns against us and destroys us in the end.

While America slept, it became a nation of monsters.

The wages of sin are death.