WTF is Up with France Demanding No Death Penalty for Terrorist?

Midnight Rambler

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I mean, who do they think they are to tell us what to do with a terrorist, caught breaking U.S. laws, conspiring to commit terrorist acts against the U.S. and its citizens, on U.S. soil. ??

If the situation were reversed, they would be in a huge outrage over there if we even so much as suggested such a thing, let alone demanded it.

Even worse, they had him in custody a few years ago on terrorism suspicions. Who knows just how much they might actually have known about him and his intentions.


Some times I wonder why we bothered to save their miserable a$$es in WWII ...
 

goldboyd

Golden Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Just be happy they haven't surrendered and handed bin laden their whole country yet. :)
 

gittyup

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2000
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I believe the British have taken the same stance. If they catch OBL and his flunkies, they will only hand them over to the US if the US promises they won't be put to death.

I don't understand it either. :|
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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<< Just be happy they haven't surrendered and handed bin laden their whole country yet. :) >>



:) I was about to say the same thing.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I believe the British have taken the same stance.

Rather hypocritical considering things they've done to the IRA in the past . . .

EDIT - And you know, as I think about it, the French have done some pretty nasty things to Action Directe, as well.

 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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<< I believe the British have taken the same stance. If they catch OBL and his flunkies, they will only hand them over to the US if the US promises they won't be put to death.
I don't understand it either. :|
>>



Is the Brighton lobby in the UK *really* that strong?

 

Valnir

Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Well since we can't use a cruel punishment, it would probably be better that we just let him rot in jail for a good 20-30 years. Being sure to make sure he has to eat pork everyday, even if we have to direct inject it into him.

Assuming of course that we just don't VX his a$$ in that cave :) Most preferable if you ask me.
 

Dougster

Senior member
Dec 14, 1999
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It is true, we have taken this stance, let me explain why.

The bottom line is, we do not believe in execution. Shooting known IRA terrorists who lived in heavily armed communities, where arrest was impossible, is another issue.

If, under no circumstances do we execute any individual, no matter what their crime, based on ethical beliefs, we will not enter into an extradition treaty with any country who practices execution, unless they forfeit their "right" to execute this any individuals extradited from us.

Whether we are right or wrong to not practice execution is another matter... I believe we are, but it is of course debatable.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
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I may be wrong, but isn't it the EU's policy not to extradite people to countries where they might face the death penalty? I coulda swore I read that somewhere but I can't find it.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
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<< If, under no circumstances do we execute any individual, no matter what their crime, based on ethical beliefs, we will not enter into an extradition treaty with any country who practices execution, unless they forfeit their "right" to execute this any individuals extradited from us.
Whether we are right or wrong to not practice execution is another matter... I believe we are, but it is of course debatable.
>>



I see, so it's *not* just in the Osama Bin Laden case then...I retract my earlier Brighton statement...

and in its stead, I give you pics of 2 girls from Brighton:
Link1
Link2

Errr...Natalie is also from Brighton but...
 

cmdavid

Diamond Member
May 23, 2001
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<< I believe the British have taken the same stance. If they catch OBL and his flunkies, they will only hand them over to the US if the US promises they won't be put to death.

I don't understand it either. :|
>>


actually.. i remember reading that.. then a few days later i read that Britain actually would hand over Bin Laden, regardless of US promises... they changes their stance or the first source was overrun by the second source or something.. ill look for a link...
 

Dougster

Senior member
Dec 14, 1999
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I would be surprised if that is the case... as referred to earlier, we are prohibited by the European Convention on Human Rights, and our domestic UK act, the Human Rights act 1998.
 

Dougster

Senior member
Dec 14, 1999
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From here...



<< British Defence Secretary Geoffrey Hoon has stated that should bin Laden be arrested by British officials, they would be unable to extradite him to the United States if he faced the death penalty there.

Britain has enshrined the European Convention on Human Rights into its domestic laws, and the Convention prohibits the extradition of people to countries where the courts could decide to execute them.
>>

 

bigrash

Lifer
Feb 20, 2001
17,648
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<< and in its stead, I give you pics of 2 girls from Brighton >>



damn nice site...some of you might wanna browse around:D
 

Dougster

Senior member
Dec 14, 1999
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<<

<< and in its stead, I give you pics of 2 girls from Brighton >>



damn nice site...some of you might wanna browse around:D
>>



Courtesy of our biggest selling newspaper... they put one of these photos on their inside page every day, and have done for thirty years. I'm more of a broadsheet man myself, but I see the attraction ;)
 

Midnight Rambler

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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The whole point is, there is no extradition in this case !



<< it would probably be better that we just let him rot in jail for a good 20-30 years. Being sure to make sure he has to eat pork everyday, even if we have to direct inject it into him. >>

LOL! :D Perhaps we could arrange to have pork "injected" in to both ends of him ... ;)
 

drewshin

Golden Member
Dec 14, 1999
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civilized people dont put people to death.

they practice good christian values and let god do the judging. *yay* *cheer* LOL

 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
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<< civilized people dont put people to death. >>


This is exactly right, though religious values don't have anything to do with my reasoning.

Frankly, the "best" that could happen is that OBL gets killed in military fire. That way we wouldn't have to worry about what to do with him.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
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The British have said that they would hand over bin Laden, regardless of the convention. The statement that they would not was made apparently by the defense minister who grossly overestimated his power. He has no doubt received a well-deserved tongue-lashing at the hands of both the Labour and Conservative party. :p
 

Logix

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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<< The British have said that they would hand over bin Laden, regardless of the convention. The statement that they would not was made apparently by the defense minister who grossly overestimated his power. He has no doubt received a well-deserved tongue-lashing at the hands of both the Labour and Conservative party. :p >>


Yep, that was thoroughly discussed over in this thread.

The story: UK vows to hand over bin Laden
 

Dougster

Senior member
Dec 14, 1999
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There seems to be some confusion here... as far as I can see there has only ever been one stance taken by the UK government. The UK is MORE than happy to hand over OBL, if we are unfortunate enough to come across him. However:

I'm not sure about the legal wrangling of where "extradition" comes in to play and where a "hand-over" is not considered an extradition, but if the US needs to take legal action to secure his custody, as in an extradition, we have no choice but to insist that there is a guarantee of no capital punishment for him.



<< Parliament would have to rewrite its death penalty law or make emergency provisions if it wanted to extradite a suspect to a country where the death penalty could be imposed. >>



Now US news services are renowned in this country for their inaccuracy when it comes to reporting on foreign affairs, and here is another example of it. There are no changes that could be made in the UK parliament, that would allow us to extradite a suspect to another country that practices the death penalty, unless cast iron guarantees are given that it will not be used on this person. Even if we did change our domestic law, it is beyond our control, he could go above the UK courts and appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, where he would win.

The European Convention on Human rights has several inalienable rights listed, one of which is the right to life. In other words, above the laws of all of the member nations, a human's life must be protected, no matter what he has done, or how depraved his actions. End of story. No individual member state can repeal this convention, in fact not even a majority could do it as every nation has a veto to nearly any change that is made in the union.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
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<< civilized people dont put people to death.

they practice good christian values and let god do the judging. *yay* *cheer* LOL
>>



hehe :)

The European Convention on Human rights has several inalienable rights listed, one of which is the right to life. In other words, above the laws of all of the member nations, a human's life must be protected, no matter what he has done, or how depraved his actions. End of story. No individual member state can repeal this convention, in fact not even a majority could do it as every nation has a veto to nearly any change that is made in the union.

and the problem with the EU comes clear :)

i dunno about you, but i feel that killing a couple thousand people in cold blood forfeits your right to life. i don't believe in inalienable rights.
 

Haircut

Platinum Member
Apr 23, 2000
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<< There seems to be some confusion here... as far as I can see there has only ever been one stance taken by the UK government. The UK is MORE than happy to hand over OBL, if we are unfortunate enough to come across him. However:

I'm not sure about the legal wrangling of where "extradition" comes in to play and where a "hand-over" is not considered an extradition, but if the US needs to take legal action to secure his custody, as in an extradition, we have no choice but to insist that there is a guarantee of no capital punishment for him.
>>



I think that we have now said that if SAS forces catch Bin Laden they would be able to give him to American forces while still in Afghanistan, if he is brought back to Britain then according to EU law we would have no choice but to demand no death penalty.

I'm not a big fan of the EU and IMHO the convention on human rights has caused more problems than it has solved, but Britain is bound by law to abide by it.