WTF happened to general motors?

Kibbo

Platinum Member
Jul 13, 2004
2,847
0
0
Man, if they reissued the roadstar with a new engine, they'd make a ton of cash
 

Mucho

Guest
Oct 20, 2001
8,231
2
0
Their cars are not reliable and one thing women look for when buying a car is reliability. Women now make up a very large percent of consumers so the Japanese pull the rug from under them.
 

dman

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
9,110
0
76
The body styling is awful on 75% of the models, and the other 24% is tolerable but not market leading. I guess corvette makes up the 1% I like, my numbers may be slightly off, I didn't do the math.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Its not the consumers fault the company cant deliver on what the consumer wants.
Our consumers are fvcktards! What they gave up to save a few bucks per month on fuel is ludicrous! Hell, they waste more money on fast food, than they save in gasoline expense. Great priorities, eh? :roll:
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Its not the consumers fault the company cant deliver on what the consumer wants.
Our consumers are fvcktards! What they gave up to save a few bucks per month on fuel is ludicrous! Hell, they waste more money on fast food, than they save in gasoline expense. Great priorities, eh? :roll:

Whatever.

My wife's car, Volkswagen Passat, has the lowest multi-vehicle death rates of ANY vehicle tested by the IIHS. It's the only vehicle tested that had zero deaths reported in MV crashes.

The Crown Vic had 29 MV deaths, the Grand Marquis had 52. A Camry had 52, and an Accord had 36.

Overall death rates for the Passat were 16.
Crown Vic was 53, Grand Marquis was 83.
Camry was 56.
Accord was 58.

Big size car what?

:roll:

http://www.iihs.org/srpdfs/sr4003.pdf
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
1. Roger Smith made it so that all GM cars are based on common bodies and chassis.

2. The polution control and safety design forced GM to use its resources on technology instead of style. Back during the 50's the GM changed body styles every couple of years but the mechanics pretty much stayed the same.

3. The guy, I forgot his name, responsible for GM car style moved on.
 

Heifetz

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,398
0
0
crappy cars
cheaper and more reliable japanese alternatives
.....
no profit

seriously, most people would rather get a reliable honda or toyota over any GM car. GM does have a few niche products, like the hummer and corvette that still attracts a lot of attention, but they don't have any middle of the market car to generate revenue. Instead their revenue is based on the fact that they own tons of brands, and have to sell tons of cars to make a tidy profit. Not to mention, they have to pay tons for health care and pension. GM is the biggest private health care provider in the US. And they make most of their profit not on the cars that they sell, but on the financing through their finance arm.

 

cavemanmoron

Lifer
Mar 13, 2001
13,664
28
91

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,756
600
126
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Its not the consumers fault the company cant deliver on what the consumer wants.
Our consumers are fvcktards! What they gave up to save a few bucks per month on fuel is ludicrous! Hell, they waste more money on fast food, than they save in gasoline expense. Great priorities, eh? :roll:

Cry all you want. But its the consumers that pay the bills. Ignore them and you're fvcked.
 

mwmorph

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2004
8,877
1
81
GIVE ME BACK MY AFFORDABLE V* POWERED CAMARO AND FIREBIRDS!

anyway, gm has gone way downhill since this reinvention.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Its not the consumers fault the company cant deliver on what the consumer wants.
Our consumers are fvcktards! What they gave up to save a few bucks per month on fuel is ludicrous! Hell, they waste more money on fast food, than they save in gasoline expense. Great priorities, eh? :roll:
Whatever...

http://www.iihs.org/srpdfs/sr4003.pdf
Vehicle weight and the risk of death:
  • Because vehicle size and weight are so closely related, it shouldn?t be surprising that their effects on driver death rates are similar. In each group (cars, SUVs, pickups) the heavier vehicles, like bigger ones, generally had lower death rates (see table, p. 7). The rate in the lightest SUVs, for example, was more than twice as high as in the heaviest SUVs. ?Pound for pound across the vehicle types, cars almost always have lower death rates than either pickups or SUVs. This generally is because the SUVs and pickups have much higher rates of death in single-vehicle rollover crashes,? Lund explains. In some weight groups, the death rates in cars were dramatically lower. For example, the rate in cars weighing 3,501 to 4,000 pounds was about half of the rates in pickups or SUVs of similar weight. The exception was light pick ups, which had relatively low rates compared with cars or SUVs weighing about the same. ?There?s no ready explanation for this exception,? Lund says. ?It probably has some thing to do with how light pickups are driven and their use patterns compared with larger and heavier pickups.
On topic: In 1974, our fvcktard consumers traded in their nice safe, heavy, V8, RWD, living rooms on wheels, for the econoboxes offered by Europe and Japan. All in the name of saving a few dollars per month in fuel. They weren't NEARLY as crashworthy as the behemoths that were traded in.

GM and Detroit in general, spent the next few decades trying to build econoboxes, and were always lagging behind. If consumers would have kept buying the land barges that was GMs bread & butter, they could have kept concentrating on improving those, and it would have been impossible for Japan to compete. It was another 15 years before Japan released a V8, RWD sedan and the cost was insane! V8, RWDs were a dime a dozen until our consumers pulled the rug out. Great job! :|
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
GM =>> gas hogging/unreliable vehicles + bad stylings +depending too much on big trucks and SUVs + UAW union + clueless management + HUGE liabilities on health care and pensions = BIG TROUBLE

Customers =>> switch to imports from Japan, Korea, German

GM =>>> opps, gotta cut back costs (cut jobs from both white and blue collars, may need concessions from the UAW union), may cut one division/brand (after they done away with Olds).

Me =>> after witness how a vehicle was build by UAW workmanship in person, won't ever pay a penny for GM/Ford/CHrysler vehicles again (unless they change their mindset and workmanship).

Edit: before any of you flame me, remember the CUSTOMERS = THE BOSSES. I don't see import makers give out tons and tons of incentives to sell their vehicles as much as domestics. Yet, they are gaining market shares. Wondering why???
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
1. Roger Smith made it so that all GM cars are based on common bodies and chassis.

2. The polution control and safety design forced GM to use its resources on technology instead of style. Back during the 50's the GM changed body styles every couple of years but the mechanics pretty much stayed the same.

3. The guy, I forgot his name, responsible for GM car style moved on.

#1 is the true answer in my opinion. Once the difference between a Chevy and a Pontiac became nothing more than what plastic and trim was bolted to the car the reason for so many divisions disappeared. #2 is something that all the domestics had to deal with so I don't see that the effect would be any more profound for GM than any other domestic manufacturer.
 

brigden

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2002
8,702
2
81
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
1. Roger Smith made it so that all GM cars are based on common bodies and chassis.

2. The polution control and safety design forced GM to use its resources on technology instead of style. Back during the 50's the GM changed body styles every couple of years but the mechanics pretty much stayed the same.

3. The guy, I forgot his name, responsible for GM car style moved on.

Number 2 is a crock of shit. European and Japanese manufactures have been able to design beautiful vehicles and meet standards.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
Cheap construction, unappealing designs, lack of innovation, overpriced...you name it. The things they are trying to innovate on are missing the mark (for instance, the $40000 SSR).
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Ornery

http://www.iihs.org/srpdfs/sr4003.pdfVehicle weight and the risk of death:
  • Because vehicle size and weight are so closely related, it shouldn?t be surprising that their effects on driver death rates are similar. In each group (cars, SUVs, pickups) the heavier vehicles, like bigger ones, generally had lower death rates (see table, p. 7). The rate in the lightest SUVs, for example, was more than twice as high as in the heaviest SUVs. ?Pound for pound across the vehicle types, cars almost always have lower death rates than either pickups or SUVs. This generally is because the SUVs and pickups have much higher rates of death in single-vehicle rollover crashes,? Lund explains. In some weight groups, the death rates in cars were dramatically lower. For example, the rate in cars weighing 3,501 to 4,000 pounds was about half of the rates in pickups or SUVs of similar weight. The exception was light pick ups, which had relatively low rates compared with cars or SUVs weighing about the same. ?There?s no ready explanation for this exception,? Lund says. ?It probably has some thing to do with how light pickups are driven and their use patterns compared with larger and heavier pickups.
On topic: In 1974, our fvcktard consumers traded in their nice safe, heavy, V8, RWD, living rooms on wheels, for the econoboxes offered by Europe and Japan. All in the name of saving a few dollars per month in fuel. They weren't NEARLY as crashworthy as the behemoths that were traded in.

GM and Detroit in general, spent the next few decades trying to build econoboxes, and were always lagging behind. If consumers would have kept buying the land barges that was GMs bread & butter, they could have kept concentrating on improving those, and it would have been impossible for Japan to compete. It was another 15 years before Japan released a V8, RWD sedan and the cost was insane! V8, RWDs were a dime a dozen until our consumers pulled the rug out. Great job! :|

Are you much safer in a behemoth vs. behemoth crash than in a compact vs. compact crash? You're more likely to die in a small car because the guy who hits you is likely to be driving a much bigger car. So you could turn it around and say that people who drive a larger carn than necessary are selfishly putting other people's lives at risk. But I'm not going to whine about what other people CHOOSE to buy.

Maybe it's not about saving a few bucks on gas, maybe it's because oil is a FINITE RESOURCE and we'd like it to last as long as possible?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
The camaro in the last link is the only one I'd be seen dead in. The others are hideous/boring/pathetic. Of course nostalgia compels others to lament the downfall of GM, but objectively those old cars are fvcking ugly. Believe it.
Are you much safer in a behemoth vs. behemoth crash than in a compact vs. compact crash? You're more likely to die in a small car because the guy who hits you is likely to be driving a much bigger car. So you could turn it around and say that people who drive a larger carn than necessary are selfishly putting other people's lives at risk. But I'm not going to whine about what other people CHOOSE to buy.
you could, and to a great degree you'd be right, as evidenced by the fact that in single vehicle accidents (eg. you ram a tree) small cars are similar in safety to large ones).