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WTC Cross -- The Fight continues.

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,028
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It is a private museum. They can display whatever they want. They are paying the government for the property. The government isn't sponsoring them...

Some people will cry about anything, I swear.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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As a non-believing agnostic, I think this lawsuit is ridiculous. It serves only to make atheists look petty and spiteful. While I agree separation of church and state is vital, this "cross" is a historic artifact, not something promoting religion. Their lawsuit serves no reasonable purpose and is only going to cause pain for those who lost loved ones on 9/11.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,106
13,040
136
It's perfectly obvious that this particular piece of scrap iron was selected for religious significance. Duh!

The fact that it's a private museum moots concerns about separation of Church & State, afaic. Another Duh!
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
It's perfectly obvious that this particular piece of scrap iron was selected for religious significance. Duh!

The fact that it's a private museum moots concerns about separation of Church & State, afaic. Another Duh!
I agree...though Bowfinger makes a good point but if that beam weren't shaped like a cross, it wouldn't be there.

I think the only reason the removal of it would cause anyone pain is because its been assigned sentimental value. I simply cannot personally find a silver lining in the murder of thousands of people on 9/11
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,392
31
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The fact that it's a private museum moots concerns about separation of Church & State,
Not if the government leased it for a specific purpose. A private party taking on a government function does not detach their actions from the government.

>City leases out parking enforcement
>Private enforcement agency overlooks the infraction of anyone with a Jesus fish and writes false tickets for those with a Darwin fish.

Is the city off the hook because they're a private organization simply acting in accordance with their religion? No.

It's The National September 11 Memorial & Museum. It holds a preeminent place as the only memorial and museum at the WTC site. A memorial that gives preeminence to Christianity cannot be disentangled from the governmental promotion of Christianity.
 
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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,209
456
126
http://www.today.com/news/world-trade-center-cross-fight-continues-athiest-group-appeals-ruling-2D79328902

I don't have much of an opinion on this, just cannot personally see how a cross-shaped steel beam is anything more than a cross-shaped steel beam.

Maybe instead of fighting against it, AA should erect something of their own (maybe the "A" for atheist symbol I commonly see out here) just for kicks. :p
You don't see the slippery slope here, next abortion clinics will be closed, women will be forced back into the kitchen, gays back in the closet, the bible will become required reading, pornography will become illegal, cats and dogs will live together, etc., etc.D::rolleyes:


How about putting this cross-shaped steel beam in a jar of urine and displaying it in a government building then those so called liberal hypocrites opposing it on 1st amendment grounds will defend it as art.:colbert:
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
Jesus clearly wanted all those people to die, hence why he signed his work.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,483
1
81
I say let the babies have their bottle. Take it down if they are offended. Put something "less offensive" up in its place. So what if this symbol stays in that place? What significant gain is made for those who believe? Let's not play pretend anymore.
Once all the steel and stone monuments are gone, they will be looking to tear down monuments of bone and blood.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
You don't see the slippery slope here, next abortion clinics will be closed, women will be forced back into the kitchen, gays back in the closet, the bible will become required reading, pornography will become illegal, cats and dogs will live together, etc., etc.D::rolleyes:


How about putting this cross-shaped steel beam in a jar of urine and displaying it in a government building then those so called liberal hypocrites opposing it on 1st amendment grounds will defend it as art.:colbert:
I don't think there is any doubt atheists are being extremely bigoted here...hiding behind "Separation of Church and State" in the same manner they accuse Christians of hiding their homophobia behind the Bible.

Please, I'm sure the poor can make better use of AA funds...
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,392
31
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I don't think there is any doubt atheists are being extremely bigoted here...hiding behind "Separation of Church and State" in the same manner they accuse Christians of hiding their homophobia behind the Bible...
Oh, you poor oppressed white male Christian, you.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
I agree...though Bowfinger makes a good point but if that beam weren't shaped like a cross, it wouldn't be there.

I think the only reason the removal of it would cause anyone pain is because its been assigned sentimental value. I simply cannot personally find a silver lining in the murder of thousands of people on 9/11
I agree that certainly a cross is a religious symbol. My point is that the museum isn't displaying it because it's a religious symbol, but rather because it is a historic artifact from the 9/11 rescue and recovery efforts. In other words, there is no attempt to promote a religion in displaying this artifact.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,392
31
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I agree that certainly a cross is a religious symbol. My point is that the museum isn't displaying it because it's a religious symbol, but rather because it is a historic artifact from the 9/11 rescue and recovery efforts. In other words, there is no attempt to promote a religion in displaying this artifact.
Somehow I doubt it's going to be labeled: "This is to commemorate that a bunch of superstitious morons who believe that a Jewish itinerant preacher is the Jewish messiah (and that this somehow has some relevance to them as gentiles) saw the superficial similarity between this debris and the method of that preacher's execution and concluded that said dead preacher was sending them a message through said similarity."

But if I'm wrong, I retract my objection.
 
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MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
Somehow I doubt it's going to be labeled: "This is to commemorate that a bunch of superstitious morons who believe that a Jewish itinerant preacher is the Jewish messiah (and that this somehow has some relevance to them as gentiles) saw the superficial similarity between this debris and the method of that preacher's execution and concluded that said dead preacher was sending them a message through said similarity."

But if I'm wrong, I retract my objection.
Oh, you poor oppressed white male Christian, you.

From one atheist to another, you're a douche bag.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Somehow I doubt it's going to be labeled: "This is to commemorate that a bunch of superstitious morons who believe that a Jewish itinerant preacher is the Jewish messiah (and that this somehow has some relevance to them as gentiles) saw the superficial similarity between this debris and the method of that preacher's execution and concluded that said dead preacher was sending them a message through said similarity."

But if I'm wrong, I retract my objection.
You're being an asshat for the sake of being an asshat. Seems like somebody who regularly congratulates himself on his own brilliance could offer something less useless.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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The resulting efforts of 19 religious ideologues provided the melding of bits to roughly form another religion's icon or a Roman torture device or some other thing... It seems that what you see in that clump of steel is opinion and that ought not form an objection to another's view of it... Well... unless you consume bananas in abundance.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,392
31
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"This is to commemorate that some Christians felt that Katrina was God's wrath for, 'Teh gays.'"

Somebody contact New Orleans! This needs to be on the memorial!

 

The_AC

Member
May 29, 2012
28
0
0
I guess the Greek government needs to demolish the Acropolis, to avoid imposing Zeus-ism on its citizens?

I view Christianity about the same as Christians view Satanism, and even I think this is stupid.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,895
7
0
Hey, if Christians can be fucking stupid with sending the gubnament after things they don't like (no big government,.. but, stop those gays from having sex) then Athiests can be fucking stupid as well with things like this.

See, both sides can be fucking stupid!

Seriously though, American Athiests,... what the fuck is your problem??
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,777
3
0
As a lifelong, die hard atheist I find this behavior on the part of American Atheists to be annoying and stupid.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,029
352
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AA is becoming douchbag zealots like most organized religious zealots. Or something to that effect.
 

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