[WSJ] Intel to Stop Making Modem Chips for 5G Smartphones

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,027
11,607
136
The plot thickens!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/app...els-modem-division-for-1-billion-or-more.html

https://www.thestreet.com/video/jim...-buy-intel-smartphone-modem-business-15029181

Nothing is final yet. The street already thinks that Apple is paying $1 billion for Intel's shuttered modem business. Cramer's skepticism is understandable. I don't know that Intel is prepared to spin off anything/anyone, and none of Intel's 5G modems ever worked anyway (apparently). And then there's Apple's own modem design team about which I've heard nothing in months.
 

deathBOB

Senior member
Dec 2, 2007
569
239
116
The plot thickens!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/app...els-modem-division-for-1-billion-or-more.html

https://www.thestreet.com/video/jim...-buy-intel-smartphone-modem-business-15029181

Nothing is final yet. The street already thinks that Apple is paying $1 billion for Intel's shuttered modem business. Cramer's skepticism is understandable. I don't know that Intel is prepared to spin off anything/anyone, and none of Intel's 5G modems ever worked anyway (apparently). And then there's Apple's own modem design team about which I've heard nothing in months.

Just the patents are probably worth something.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,322
5,351
136
The plot thickens!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/app...els-modem-division-for-1-billion-or-more.html

https://www.thestreet.com/video/jim...-buy-intel-smartphone-modem-business-15029181

Nothing is final yet. The street already thinks that Apple is paying $1 billion for Intel's shuttered modem business. Cramer's skepticism is understandable. I don't know that Intel is prepared to spin off anything/anyone, and none of Intel's 5G modems ever worked anyway (apparently). And then there's Apple's own modem design team about which I've heard nothing in months.

I mean Intel's modem business was acquired from Infineon in the first place- is it really that inconceivable that it could be spun back out again?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,027
11,607
136
Possible that the 5G modem design is good, it just got 10 nm'ed.

Intel's modems were pretty terrible, even the 4G ones. Nobody in their right mind wanted an iPhone with an Intel modem versus a Qualcomm one. So bad. Their designs were not good by industry standards. If it was just a process issue, they easily could have fabbed them elsewhere until 10nm reached sufficient maturity.

Just the patents are probably worth something.

That's Cramer's take on it. The question is whether Apple wants to pony up enough cash for the entire unit just to scrape up those patents.

I mean Intel's modem business was acquired from Infineon in the first place- is it really that inconceivable that it could be spun back out again?

When was the last time Intel spun off any of their divisions, though?
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,322
5,351
136
When was the last time Intel spun off any of their divisions, though?

The most similar case is probably when they sold off XScale. It was a low margin embedded business that they originally acquired from someone else, and that they got rid of so that they could focus on x86.

Since then, they spun off SpectraWatt in 2008, McAffee in 2017, and Wind River in 2018.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,027
11,607
136
Hmm. Wind River and McAffee are both software firms though. I would think Intel would at least want to retain the engineering talent from their modem team. Could be wrong though.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
5,064
8,032
136
Computerbase did publish an article about the thing, they are not interested by the designs but by the patents portfolio, ...
The reports I kept reading over the weeks is that Apple is trying to get the R&D team based in Germany that originates from Infineon. Intel reportedly put up both patents and the division for sale separately.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,027
11,607
136
The reports I kept reading over the weeks is that Apple is trying to get the R&D team based in Germany that originates from Infineon. Intel reportedly put up both patents and the division for sale separately.

Ahhh now that's interesting.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,536
4,324
136
The reports I kept reading over the weeks is that Apple is trying to get the R&D team based in Germany that originates from Infineon. Intel reportedly put up both patents and the division for sale separately.

RD team without the patents is useless, Intel sell them separately as a mean to increase the total value and be in abetter position to negociate the sale of the whole package with whom is interested....
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
5,064
8,032
136
RD team without the patents is useless, Intel sell them separately as a mean to increase the total value and be in abetter position to negociate the sale of the whole package with whom is interested....
Sure, but Apple already is a heavyweight in mobile patents and has several cross-licensing deals to boot. Good mobile modem tech knowledge/staff is far harder to acquire even with big money, and Apple likely knows that Intel/Infineon R&D group pretty well at this point.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,536
4,324
136
Sure, but Apple already is a heavyweight in mobile patents and has several cross-licensing deals to boot. Good mobile modem tech knowledge/staff is far harder to acquire even with big money, and Apple likely knows that Intel/Infineon R&D group pretty well at this point.

Apple have mainly patents that are not related to electronic design, it s one thing to patent a square and quite another to patent or register physically characterised functional blocks.

It takes a lot of tries to get mixed sIgnals circuitries working flawlessly, guess that Intel learned it the hard way since they had trouble getting something with a good enough signal/noise ratio, analog design is not that trivial, and even if they are not patented they cant be straightfowardly copied legaly, Intel knows that wthout the designs and related patents the RD part is a hollow shell.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
5,064
8,032
136
The interesting part it that the news release mentions "Apple will hold over 17,000 wireless technology patents". Previous reports were about "Intel is auctioning off 8,500 patents" so either Intel included more patents or Apple indeed had a large portfolio itself already.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
5,064
8,032
136
Remember Apple will also have to buy from Qualcomm in the next 6 years. On the other hand Qualcomm will have to finally follow FRAND for standard patents and split its patents licensing and chips businesses unless Trump's DOJ succeeds.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,786
136
Intels 4G modem business is unaffected and should they wish so, Intel has the choice to develop modems for non smartphone applications, such as IoT, PCs, Autonomous vehicles and so on.

This at least addresses my concern about what they are going to do with it on the PC space.

They were talking about 90+ ACPC designs coming this year. Unless they plan to stop next year, they'll need successors for the future.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,322
5,351
136
This at least addresses my concern about what they are going to do with it on the PC space.

They were talking about 90+ ACPC designs coming this year. Unless they plan to stop next year, they'll need successors for the future.

Meh. Intel has been pushing "Always Connected" for years, and it isn't happening. Outside of some niches like traveling business people, nobody wants to pay hundreds of dollars a year to the cellular network just to have 4G on their laptop.
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,158
992
146
Meh. Intel has been pushing "Always Connected" for years, and it isn't happening. Outside of some niches like traveling business people, nobody wants to pay hundreds of dollars a year to the cellular network just to have 4G on their laptop.
Better to cover that niche than let a competitor take it
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,158
992
146
Not if you need to spend millions in R&D that you're never going to get back.
They were already spending it on Smarthphones, that was just a bonus, also willing to be majority of those ACPCs dont use Intel modems.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,786
136
Meh. Intel has been pushing "Always Connected" for years, and it isn't happening. Outside of some niches like traveling business people, nobody wants to pay hundreds of dollars a year to the cellular network just to have 4G on their laptop.

In general I agree with this, even on a Tablet.

I still think its worth trying as a defensive move.