WSJ claims gov't didn't invent internet, the author they cite claims otherwise

[Phokus]

More right-wing garbage not backed up by reality in the op-ed pages of the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...?mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs=article

The WSJ cites an author of the book, 'Dealers of Lightning' as their source of 'internet history' that "debunks" government involvement in the internet.

However, the author of that book wrote a counter OP-ED basically highlighting just how wrong the WSJ is when referencing his book:

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-mo-who-invented-internet-20120723,0,5052169.story

Not that it matters, because you know your average conservative is going to just point to this WSJ article, reality be damned. That's their MO now.

 

[blankslate]

Conservative hack who wants to discount the fact that vast infrastructure is usually if not always initiated at the Governmental level. After all, every corporation will just spend billions of dollars just for academic research that doesn't have an immediate or (seemingly at the time) long term return.

That's all.

 

[DaveSimmons]

ArsTechnica did a good job of pointing out the factually incorrect mistakes in that WSJ opinion piece:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...o-argue-government-didnt-launch-the-internet/

TCP/IP? "Crovitz is right that Vinton Cerf, along with Bob Kahn, invented the TCP/IP protocol that is the foundation of the modern Internet. But he neglects to mention that Cerf's early work on the protocol was funded by the US military through its DARPA program."

WWW? ""Hyperlinks" are not the Internet, and Tim Berners-Lee didn't invent them. Nor is the World Wide Web the Internet, although the Web has become such a popular Internet application that many people confuse the two. But more to the point, Berners-Lee was working at CERN, a research organization funded by European governments, when he invented the World Wide Web in the early 1990s."

 

[Ldir]

The WSJ has become another worthless Murdoch tabloid.

 

[Abwx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel

 

[Lanyap]

A rational take on the internet issue.

Statists claim that government "invented" the internet. As President Obama told an audience, "The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money."

In the Wall Street Journal, Gordon Crovitz correctly points out that the internet flourished in spite of government, not because of it.

The government did create Arpanet, the world's first decentralized computer network. It was supposed to help the Department of Defense communicate after a nuclear attack. Even then, government scientists relied heavily on inventions by private companies.

Arpanet introduced TCP/IP, the protocol that the internet uses to transfer information. That was useful, but for decades, the government possessed the technology it needed to create the Internet, and did very little with it.

In 1969, Arpanet linked 4 computers. Over the next three years, Email and instant messaging were invented, but they weren't useful to you, because the government's Arpanet linked only 37 computers.

Only as the program was declassified did the private sector make the investments, in money and creativity, that gave us the internet we have now.

Why didn't the private sector develop an Arpanet?

According to Andrew Morriss of The Freeman, two reasons: First, government crowded out the private sector by hiring many talented computer scientists, and then keeping their contributions classified. Second, laws required the FCC to authorize new networks, and "Regulatory barriers to entry, not a lack of entrepreneurial activity, slowed the efforts to build private networks."

In 1995, government fully privatized their network. That's when the current internet started to flourish. Morriss says, "the real Internet grew out of a spontaneous ordering process of the interactions of millions of individual users.... The explosive growth in commerce, for example, became possible only when the government's ban on commercial use of the networks it financed was lifted."

Peter Klein, of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, points out that most of the internet went "unforeseen by its original designers - [but was] developed in the private sector." For example, Xerox and Apple developed "a useable graphical user interface (GUI), a lightweight and durable mouse, and the Ethernet protocol."

Yes, President Obama, government invented the Arpanet. But what happened next shows how government fails, but individuals succeed. Government enacted barriers to private-sector research, and took decades before it allowed all of us to benefit from an important new technology. Once it was privatized, individuals - not government -created the internet that we know today.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2012/07/24/did-government-invent-internet#

 

[Phokus]

A rational take on the internet issue.



http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2012/07/24/did-government-invent-internet#

Peter Klein, of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, points out that most of the internet went "unforeseen by its original designers - [but was] developed in the private sector." For example, Xerox and Apple developed "a useable graphical user interface (GUI), a lightweight and durable mouse, and the Ethernet protocol."

These are not the 'internet'. I wouldn't even call ethernet 'the internet', it's layer 2 of the OSI model:

Conservatives need to shut the hell up, everytime they open their mouths about technology, we get retarded shit like 'series of tubes' type comments.

The internet would have NEVER happened without government force, because of property rights. If i don't want wires going through my property or i ask for too much money for the ISP to get the right to do so, my neighbors won't get internet service.

If you've ever noticed, countries that have MORE government getting involved in their internet tend to have BETTER/FASTER internet than those that DON'T. That's because internet connections are somewhat of a natural monopoly.

Also, LOL @ calling anything john stossel writes 'balanced'. He is a libertarian propagandist.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I heard Limbaugh going on about Ethernet and mice and GUIs today on the radio. Must have been based on the same article.

Utterly clueless. As if GUIs and mice and link layer protocols are what made the Internet what it is!

Saying that credit for the Internet goes to the inventors of Ethernet is like saying that credit for the interstate highway system goes to the guy who invented asphalt concrete. Saying that credit for th Internet goes to the inventor of the mouse is like saying credit for the interstate highway system goes to the guy who invented the wheel.

I could rip apart every bullshit point and flat out lie in that Fox propaganda report, but I honestly can't be bothered. I did really like the part where they pretended that Internet took years to get going because of government holding it back, rather than, you know, computers costing a bloody fortune.

 

[techs]

Clearly Mark Zuckerberg invented the internet.

 

[Matt1970]

Also, the internet would have NEVER happened without government force, because of property rights. If i don't want wires going through my property or i ask for too much money for the ISP to get the right to do so, my neighbors won't get internet service.

And then they did everything they could to stick it to Microsoft, the one company that brought the Internet into every household.

 

[DaveSimmons]

And then they did everything they could to stick it to Microsoft, the one company that brought the Internet into every household.

Hahhahahahahahahaha. No, that was Netscape and AOL.

Once Bill Gates saw the light, he then directed MS to come up ways to abuse their Windows monopoly power to take over from the innovators like Netscape.

IE didn't win on merits, it won on:
- making IE "part of the operating system", causing a decade of security exploits
- forcing developers to ship and install IE with their desktop applications if they wanted to use the latest versions of Windows "common controls" for things like image lists.
- strong arming PC makers to limit choice and only offer IE on their desktops
- making their internet software free to "cut off the oxygen" of Netscape

 

[Lanyap]

The internet would have NEVER happened without government force, because of property rights. If i don't want wires going through my property or i ask for too much money for the ISP to get the right to do so, my neighbors won't get internet service.

Non sequitur. The government forced a right of way for whatever they needed/wanted to install - power lines, telephones, cable, water, sewer, etc. It's not related to the original statement.

The internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the internet so that all the companies could make money off the internet.

If you've ever noticed, countries that have MORE government getting involved in their internet tend to have BETTER/FASTER internet than those that DON'T. That's because internet connections are somewhat of a natural monopoly.

Again, non sequitur. Our government started the project but it did not become the internet as we know it until it was released to the private sector. The government could have easily canned the project or never released it.

Government research created the internet so that all the companies could make money off the internet.

True or False?

 

[Phokus]

Non sequitur. The government forced a right of way for whatever they needed/wanted to install - power lines, telephones, cable, water, sewer, etc. It's not related to the original statement.







Again, non sequitur. Our government started the project but it did not become the internet as we know it until it was released to the private sector. The government could have easily canned the project or never released it.



True or False?

The only nonsequitor is your crap article that doesn't even know the fundamentals of what constitutes 'the internet'.

Funny how you didn't comment on THAT. Considering none of what the private sector did in his list of 'private sector internet contributions' is even the 'internet', all of your 'points' are a waste of breath.

Take a look again. See what OSI layer THREE is (the thing that corresponds to the 'internet' in the tcp/ip model)? Those things in your shit article aren't THAT.

Stop posting, it's embarrassing. You might as well go on a ted stevens 'it's a series of tubes!' rant.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

And then they did everything they could to stick it to Microsoft, the one company that brought the Internet into every household.

OMG.

Every time I think I've seen the stupidest thing I can possibly imagine you could ever say, you prove me wrong.

 

[rchiu]

More right-wing garbage not backed up by reality in the op-ed pages of the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...?mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs=article

The WSJ cites an author of the book, 'Dealers of Lightning' as their source of 'internet history' that "debunks" government involvement in the internet.

However, the author of that book wrote a counter OP-ED basically highlighting just how wrong the WSJ is when referencing his book:

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-mo-who-invented-internet-20120723,0,5052169.story

Not that it matters, because you know your average conservative is going to just point to this WSJ article, reality be damned. That's their MO now.

Hehe, what is this? Another pathetic attempt to defend Obama's "you didn't build that" crap? You know the truth is always somewhere down the middle. All these infrastructure are effort from both public and private sectors. But make no mistake, private sectors paid for all these fiber optic lines government laid down, all these telcomm tower, all these ISP, content providers. Most of the innovation were started by one/or a few smart person, but tons of private sector investment money and demand from private sector to make it what it is today.

You think internet would fly without private sector paying and using it? You think private sector haven't been paying for the Internet?

What matters is Obama's pathetic attempt to justify his tax increase backfired. Stop wasting time to defend that.

 

[glenn1]

WSJ claims gov't didn't invent internet, the author they cite claims otherwise.

Yes, it's wonderful that the government created the internet. It's also wonderful that they stopped being involved in the internet 20 years ago and let the private sector turn it into what it is today without interference. And ultimately only a fucking moron would point to the creation of the internet as if it were a reason we should pay higher taxes, vote for Obama or Democrats, or approve additional "stimulus" spending.

 

[Phokus]

Hehe, what is this? Another pathetic attempt to defend Obama's "you didn't build that" crap? You know the truth is always somewhere down the middle. All these infrastructure are effort from both public and private sectors. But make no mistake, private sectors paid for all these fiber optic lines government laid down, all these telcomm tower, all these ISP, content providers. Most of the innovation are started by one/or a few smart person, and tons of private sector investment money and demand from private sector to make it what it is today.

You think internet would fly without private sector paying and using it? You think private sector haven't been paying for the Internet?

What matters is Obama's pathetic attempt to justify his tax increase backfired. Stop wasting time to defend that.

The private sector wouldn't have laid down fiber optic lines if not for

a) The government's investment into the actual research that laid the groundwork for the technology

and

b) The government using it's power to allow the 'series of tubes' (as republicans call it) to traverse of public and private property.

No government, no internet.

 

[Phokus]

Yes, it's wonderful that the government created the internet. It's also wonderful that they stopped being involved in the internet 20 years ago and let the private sector turn it into what it is today without interference. And ultimately only a fucking moron would point to the creation of the internet as if it were a reason we should pay higher taxes, vote for Obama or Democrats, or approve additional "stimulus" spending.

Actually, IPV6 was developed by the IETF which which was formed by government researchers and now gets partial funding by the NSA. Stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself.

Edit: And if you're a fan of Tor and Onion routing, that was created by the Navy. Again, stop talking, it's embarrassing.

 

[Lanyap]

Conservatives need to shut the hell up, everytime they open their mouths about technology, we get retarded shit like 'series of tubes' type comments.

b) The government using it's power to allow the 'series of tubes' (as republicans call it) to traverse of public and private property.

You seem to be hung up on this 'series of tubes' thing. What other repubs other than Stevens used this term?

 

[Phokus]

You seem to be hung up on this 'series of tubes' thing. What other repubs other than Stevens used this term?

I'm not hung up on anything other than the crap article you posted is well... crap.

 

[Zstream]

Actually, IPV6 was developed by the IETF which which was formed by government researchers and now gets partial funding by the NSA.

Whatare you talking about? The IETF was formed by the Government but within the same year, anyone could join. You're just as delusional as everyone else.

 

[Phokus]

Whatare you talking about? The IETF was formed by the Government but within the same year, anyone could join. You're just as delusional as everyone else.

Did you miss the part of them funding the IETF now via the NSA? Clearly what i was responding to was wrong:

Yes, it's wonderful that the government created the internet. It's also wonderful that they stopped being involved in the internet 20 years ago and let the private sector turn it into what it is today without interference. And ultimately only a fucking moron would point to the creation of the internet as if it were a reason we should pay higher taxes, vote for Obama or Democrats, or approve additional "stimulus" spending.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It's worth mentioning that the internet didn't jump straight from military-funded research to wide commercial development.

The stage in between was use at universities, where it connected government-funded equipment that was used by government-funded researchers and government-subsidized students.

The universities acted as the incubators for the first wave of people creating new ways to use their connected world, from email to usenet and FTP and finally the web.

Some researchers moved their work to the private sector, while students saw the internet in use at school and thought of ways to bring it out into the rest of the world.

 

[Double Trouble]

You guys are really unbelievable. Does everything have to be a democrat/republican liberal/conservative thing?

The foundation of the internet was the result of government research activity and government sponsored activity. That could have been the end of it, but the private sector was able to realize the potential of the technology and made it what it is today. Clearly, neither would have happened without the other. The internet as we know it today is the result of a combination of a lot of things. Beyond that, why does it really matter?

 

[glenn1]

Did you miss the part of them funding the IETF now via the NSA? Clearly what i was responding to was wrong:

Dude, you're trying too hard. The internet was privatized 20 years ago and current involvement by the government is minimal, fairly inconsequential, and related to standards and such. And most importantly more involvement is massively unwanted by basically the entire internet community. Even now when the government gets involved they generally make things worse, e.g. the whole IP patent debacle we're living through now being enabled by the Patent Office.

And back to my original point, even if the government still completely ran the internet, that STILL wouldn't be reason to support any of the progressive agenda or to reject a rethinking of the proper size and scope of government. With all this "government is great and built the internet" you're starting to sound like Al Bundy and his "four touchdowns in one game" speech. I don't know why you expect everyone to be singing the praises of government for having built roads or whatnot because that's what government is supposed to do, hell even Republicans can manage that.