Wow we must have wanted that treaty really bad. We sell out the Brits.

[Hayabusa Rider]

This isn't cool at all.

WikiLeaks cables: US agrees to tell Russia Britain's nuclear secrets

The US secretly agreed to give the Russians sensitive information on Britain’s nuclear deterrent to persuade them to sign a key treaty, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.


Information about every Trident missile the US supplies to Britain will be given to Russia as part of an arms control deal signed by President Barack Obama next week.

Defence analysts claim the agreement risks undermining Britain’s policy of refusing to confirm the exact size of its nuclear arsenal.

The fact that the Americans used British nuclear secrets as a bargaining chip also sheds new light on the so-called “special relationship”, which is shown often to be a one-sided affair by US diplomatic communications obtained by the WikiLeaks website.



A series of classified messages sent to Washington by US negotiators show how information on Britain’s nuclear capability was crucial to securing Russia’s support for the “New START” deal.
Although the treaty was not supposed to have any impact on Britain, the leaked cables show that Russia used the talks to demand more information about the UK’s Trident missiles, which are manufactured and maintained in the US.
Washington lobbied London in 2009 for permission to supply Moscow with detailed data about the performance of UK missiles. The UK refused, but the US agreed to hand over the serial numbers of Trident missiles it transfers to Britain.
Professor Malcolm Chalmers said: “This appears to be significant because while the UK has announced how many missiles it possesses, there has been no way for the Russians to verify this. Over time, the unique identifiers will provide them with another data point to gauge the size of the British arsenal.”
Duncan Lennox, editor of Jane’s Strategic Weapons Systems, said: “They want to find out whether Britain has more missiles than we say we have, and having the unique identifiers might help them.”
While the US and Russia have long permitted inspections of each other’s nuclear weapons, Britain has sought to maintain some secrecy to compensate for the relatively small size of its arsenal.
William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, last year disclosed that “up to 160” warheads are operational at any one time, but did not confirm the number of missiles.

No honor among thieves.

 

[Fern]

That's deplorable.

Fern

 

[Red Dawn]

The Queen Disaproves. What does "mintained in the US" exactly mean?

 

[Nintendesert]

Shameful. We have no honor anymore.

 

[bfdd]

Why is everyone so angry that the US gov't is giving away information on the 51st state?

 

[boomerang]

He sent back the bust. A big message was sent with that move.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Why is everyone so angry that the US gov't is giving away information on the 51st state?

This isn't about Saudi Arabia.

I don't think this is true but if it is, it's going to cause diplomatic problems.

 

[CanOWorms]

No way, really? Obama betrayed the country that mutilated his grandfather's testicles?

The Eurosupremacist Brigade must come here and claim that yet ANOTHER Obama activity that plainly disrespects the UK is imaginary.

 

[Red Dawn]

No way, really? Obama betrayed the country that mutilated his grandfather's testicles?

The Eurosupremacist Brigade must come here and claim that yet ANOTHER Obama activity that plainly disrespects the UK is imaginary.

Well if we'd do that to Britian what do you think we'd do to India?

 

[SAWYER]

I haven't been following this wiki story at all, how factual are these leaks? I am having a hard time believing the US would do this to GB

 

[CanOWorms]

Well if we'd do that to Britian what do you think we'd do to India?

I would suggest that the treatment would be positive as opposed to negative to the UK. Obama threw his first official state dinner for the Indian PM. He has repeatedly insulted the British.

It's no secret that Obama dislikes Europe and "looks East rather than West." It's so refreshing to have a foreign policy not based on racial similarities.

 

[irishScott]

While deplorable if true, maybe the Brits could simply manufacture their own nukes? It's not like they lack the technology or know-how.

 

[Red Dawn]

I would suggest that the treatment would be positive as opposed to negative to the UK. Obama threw his first official state dinner for the Indian PM. He has repeatedly insulted the British.

It's no secret that Obama dislikes Europe and "looks East rather than West." It's so refreshing to have a foreign policy not based on racial similarities.

Aside from you I really like Indians but if you think that the American voter is ready to discard our Eurpean allies you are sadly mistaken. There's more than racial similarities the bind us, there's a lot of cultural simlarities that we share.

 

[CanOWorms]

Aside from you I really like Indians but if you think that the American voter is ready to discard our Eurpean allies you are sadly mistaken. There's more than racial similarities the bind us, there's a lot of cultural simlarities that we share.

It's already happening and I don't see many Americans upset about it. I can imagine the Tea Party types and older folks being upset. But, the cultural and racial similarities are fading every day. Demographics on both sides are pointing towards a new and different future.

 

[PottedMeat]

While deplorable if true, maybe the Brits could simply manufacture their own nukes? It's not like they lack the technology or know-how.

not without spending a huge amount of money to do it from scratch. we've already got the manufacturing capability to build tons of nukes and the delivery systems, so why not offer them to a trusted ally?



i'm wondering - do we 'own' the warheads?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Did anyone read the (admittedly fact-lite) article?

From TFA:

Washington lobbied London in 2009 for permission to supply Moscow with detailed data about the performance of UK missiles. The UK refused, but the US agreed to hand over the serial numbers of Trident missiles it transfers to Britain.

So all they gave out were the serial numbers? Who cares about serial numbers? It seems the UK, since they have such few nuclear warheads, try to keep the exact amount secret for some reason.

It certainly isn't top secret performance data (which Russia probably already has anyway, either from spies or from watching test missile shots), and given the the US uses Trident missiles, the US could give Russia the information anyway.

This really doesn't sound like a big deal.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Did anyone read the (admittedly fact-lite) article?

From TFA:


So all they gave out were the serial numbers? Who cares about serial numbers? It seems the UK, since they have such few nuclear warheads, try to keep the exact amount secret for some reason.

It certainly isn't top secret performance data (which Russia probably already has anyway, either from spies or from watching test missile shots), and given the the US uses Trident missiles, the US could give Russia the information anyway.

This really doesn't sound like a big deal.

It was apparently important enough to the Russians to make it part of their accepting the treaty.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

It was apparently important enough to the Russians to make it part of their accepting the treaty.

They probably wanted an exact count to satisfy their paranoid types. Just like we have our paranoid types that demand all sorts of things.

They admit to ~160 warheads from the article...if it is 140 or 200, who really cares? The US and Russia have thousands. They aren't telling them where they are, but given they are tridents, they probably either are at a naval dock, where everyone can probably find them anyway, or at sea, in which case (hopefully) no one knows where they are anyway.

The article also doesn't say if the UK disagreed with handing over the serial numbers (at least from my reading). Still not a big deal.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I'm fine with this. What are the British going to do? They're becomingly increasingly isolated in the world as their power and influence rapidly declines. They're already basically an American lap dog. They'll just keep on taking it and if they don't, well, they'll just have the future King Charles cry to the US ambassador and our ambassador will just say that he can't understand an inbred.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

They probably wanted an exact count to satisfy their paranoid types. Just like we have our paranoid types that demand all sorts of things.

They admit to ~160 warheads from the article...if it is 140 or 200, who really cares? The US and Russia have thousands. They aren't telling them where they are, but given they are tridents, they probably either are at a naval dock, where everyone can probably find them anyway, or at sea, in which case (hopefully) no one knows where they are anyway.

The article also doesn't say if the UK disagreed with handing over the serial numbers (at least from my reading). Still not a big deal.

It's a fundamental betrayal of trust. Relationships have fallen apart for less. When you assume good faith from your allies, but it turns out that it was misplaced faith, what else is false? No, this is significant. Perhaps not from physical harm, but precisely why should or allies place the same faith in us as before?

BTW, a shout out to Tim elsewhere! (long story)

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I'm fine with this. What are the British going to do? They're becomingly increasingly isolated in the world as their power and influence rapidly declines. They're already basically an American lap dog. They'll just keep on taking it and if they don't, well, they'll just have the future King Charles cry to the US ambassador and our ambassador will just say that he can't understand an inbred.

Making shit up to fit your own fantasies won't make your wishes come true, Icelandic Mongolian.

In reality, the UK is a respected ally of all civilised nations, a head member of the EU and the closest ally the US has got.

Your fantasies and hopes won't change that in our lifetime and not in our childrens lifetime either.

You should know what it means to be a lapdog though, COW orders you to squeal like a pig, so squeal boy, squeal.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

It's a fundamental betrayal of trust. Relationships have fallen apart for less. When you assume good faith from your allies, but it turns out that it was misplaced faith, what else is false? No, this is significant. Perhaps not from physical harm, but precisely why should or allies place the same faith in us as before?

BTW, a shout out to Tim elsewhere! (long story)

I'll await confirmation but if true, it's going to be a problem.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Making shit up to fit your own fantasies won't make your wishes come true, Icelandic Mongolian.

In reality, the UK is a respected ally of all civilised nations, a head member of the EU and the closest ally the US has got.

Your fantasies and hopes won't change that in our lifetime and not in our childrens lifetime either.

You should know what it means to be a lapdog though, COW orders you to squeal like a pig, so squeal boy, squeal.

The UK is not an ally - it's a lap dog. An ally is a partner while a lap dog is a lackey. The UK is obviously the latter.

The US should just use the UK as it sees fit and if the UK ever gets out of line then the US should just throw the UK under the bus. Really, relations with Russia are a lot more significant than relations with the UK.

 

[Sinsear]

Nothing like selling out our greatest ally.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The UK is not an ally - it's a lap dog. An ally is a partner while a lap dog is a lackey. The UK is obviously the latter.

The US should just use the UK as it sees fit and if the UK ever gets out of line then the US should just throw the UK under the bus. Really, relations with Russia are a lot more significant than relations with the UK.

See, these are the fantasies i was referring to, just like some Arabs have their fantasies planted firmly in their head that the US is Israels lapdog you have your fantasy about the UK being US's lapdog.

It's quite pathetic, even for the little Mongolian slave of his Indian master...