Wow NV is basically beaten at all price points

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
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Good for ATI to starve sales from NV and build reputation. The reputation is strong enough now that guys like me won't consider an Nvidia card. I see no purpose to their lineup of DX10.0 cards with mediocre performance. It's also bad for NV because this is one of their few markets. AMD has other major markets to fall back on if one collapses. With Nvidia out of the mainboard business, they're scrambling (screaming) in desperation... and the 800lb gorilla (Intel) is working to shut their big traps for good.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good for ATI to starve sales from NV and build reputation. The reputation is strong enough now that guys like me won't consider an Nvidia card. I see no purpose to their lineup of DX10.0 cards with mediocre performance. It's also bad for NV because this is one of their few markets. AMD has other major markets to fall back on if one collapses. With Nvidia out of the mainboard business, they're scrambling (screaming) in desperation... and the 800lb gorilla (Intel) is working to shut their big traps for good.

Wow....AMDZone is -------->


I dont think anyone is bashing the performance of nV, seeing as how they have the top cards. The OP is talking price/performance ratio.


nV has priced GT200 at a point where they feel they are retaining enough marketshare and margins.

AMD is not gaining any marketshare on them, so why would they lower prices even more? AMD is clearing stock right now, and just had another cut last week.
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
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0
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.

Ah, so everyone is mediocre. I see........




:confused:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.

What big title requires 10.1? Nobody cares about .1 updates. We have had a few of them in the past that resulted in nothing worth talking about and were quickly superseded by a major release anyways. Much like 10.1 will be superseded by DX11.

Marketshare wise NV is doing just fine and isnt bleeding money like AMD. Economy is tough.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good for ATI to starve sales from NV and build reputation.

Tiger Direct's current top seller list:


1.
BFG GeForce GTX 280 OC 1GB P
2.
EVGA GeForce 9500 GT Video C
3.
XFX GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB P
4.
XFX GeForce 9600 GT Video Ca
5.
XFX Radeon HD 4870 XXX Editi
6.
BFG GeForce GTX 260 OC MAXCO
7.
Samsung 22" 3D Gaming LCD Mo
8.
Galaxy GeForce 9600 GT Video
9.
EVGA GeForce GTX 285 2048MB
10.
BFG GeForce 7600 GS OC 512MB
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,670
13,415
146
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good for ATI to starve sales from NV and build reputation. The reputation is strong enough now that guys like me won't consider an Nvidia card. I see no purpose to their lineup of DX10.0 cards with mediocre performance. It's also bad for NV because this is one of their few markets. AMD has other major markets to fall back on if one collapses. With Nvidia out of the mainboard business, they're scrambling (screaming) in desperation... and the 800lb gorilla (Intel) is working to shut their big traps for good.

Wow....AMDZone is -------->


I dont think anyone is bashing the performance of nV, seeing as how they have the top cards. The OP is talking price/performance ratio.


nV has priced GT200 at a point where they feel they are retaining enough marketshare and margins.

AMD is not gaining any marketshare on them, so why would they lower prices even more? AMD is clearing stock right now, and just had another cut last week.

I tend to agree that Nv thinks their doing just fine right now.

I think it's bad for ATI that theyy have to be extra competitive in all those brackets to try and increase market share.

I think it's good that ATI CAN lower their prices due to the efficient nature of their cards.

I also think it's good for us the consumer that ATI is competing heavily.
posted via Palm Pre
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.

If they are both so mediocre, who makes a better gpu?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: Paratus


I tend to agree that Nv thinks their doing just fine right now.

I think it's bad for ATI that theyy have to be extra competitive in all those brackets to try and increase market share.

I think it's good that ATI CAN lower their prices due to the efficient nature of their cards.

I also think it's good for us the consumer that ATI is competing heavily.
posted via Palm Pre


Oh it is a very good thing. And i'm glad to see the rumors that AMD's next card will be competitive with GT300, or else they could launch @ $649 again.
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,300
23
81
Children, behave!

;)

ATi certainly has the best performance/$ ratio for gaming but unfortunately they fall short in the one category that really matters to me: F@H ppd.

I mostly play WoW on my system and even the 8800GTS in my second rig is more than adequate for that purpose. But for folding - nVidia is the only way to go from a ppd/$ viewpoint. GTX 260 cranks through ~7k ppd while an equivalently priced 4870 only does about 3-4k.
 

Scali

Banned
Dec 3, 2004
2,495
0
0
Originally posted by: OCguy
Tiger Direct's current top seller list:


1.
BFG GeForce GTX 280 OC 1GB P
2.
EVGA GeForce 9500 GT Video C
3.
XFX GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB P
4.
XFX GeForce 9600 GT Video Ca
5.
XFX Radeon HD 4870 XXX Editi
6.
BFG GeForce GTX 260 OC MAXCO
7.
Samsung 22" 3D Gaming LCD Mo
8.
Galaxy GeForce 9600 GT Video
9.
EVGA GeForce GTX 285 2048MB
10.
BFG GeForce 7600 GS OC 512MB

I think we may be seeing a combination of two things here:
1) nVidia is a 'stronger' brand than AMD, so people are more likely to buy nVidia because they are more familiar with it (similar to the Intel Inside-effect).
2) AMD has only just lowered its prices. nVidia hasn't responded yet. If nVidia responds by similar pricecuts of its own, then what we're seeing now is just a temporarily distorted balance. It happens often in the PC world.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: Scoop
If I was buying now, I would definitely go with the 4890.

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue against the price/performance of the 4890 right now.
 

1ManArmY

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2003
1,333
0
0
Originally posted by: Scoop
If I was buying now, I would definitely go with the 4890.
I considered the 4890 but went with a GTX 275 SC, I am very pleased with my purchase, card is quiet and temps reasonable. This card will hold me over until the next gen cards show up this fall.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good for ATI to starve sales from NV and build reputation.

Tiger Direct's current top seller list:


1.
BFG GeForce GTX 280 OC 1GB P
2.
EVGA GeForce 9500 GT Video C
3.
XFX GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB P
4.
XFX GeForce 9600 GT Video Ca
5.
XFX Radeon HD 4870 XXX Editi
6.
BFG GeForce GTX 260 OC MAXCO
7.
Samsung 22" 3D Gaming LCD Mo
8.
Galaxy GeForce 9600 GT Video
9.
EVGA GeForce GTX 285 2048MB
10.
BFG GeForce 7600 GS OC 512MB

Not to mention NVIDIA had 67% of the discrete market last quarter.

Even selling their cards at a probable loss doesn't seem to be bringing customers to ATI's side.

 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
2
0
this is probably going to turn into that other thread which i apparently ruined by saying amd was 'winning' the current pricing battle. which they are- but then the nvidia supporters get offended not realizing that nvidia is winning everything else- brand recognition, oem sales, ect. they're not going anywhere. joe blow has no idea which cards are a good deal, so nvidia often still wins with him.

but i think anyone with a brain should still thank amd for current pricing. if they hadn't brought out the 4xxx series we'd probably still be playing on $300 9800's. they stopped the epic overpricing that really went through the ceiling with the 8-series.
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,650
1,512
126
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.

Ah, so everyone is mediocre. I see........




:confused:

Especially since you can buy a 22in LCD and 4850/GTX 250 class video card for around $300, and can reasonably expect to play modern games with very good framerates and even some AA and AF thrown in for good measure for at least the next year or so; I cannot recall ever having so much performance for so little money.

I normally budget around $250 for my graphics cards, and I splurged a little this time around and have 4870 1GB cards in crossfire for around $350 (I could get the same thing for around $300 now) out of pocket. I don't imagine I'll be forced to upgrade for quite awhile.
 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
2,337
15
81
Originally posted by: brblx
this is probably going to turn into that other thread

What thread on the Videocard board doesn't end up sounding exactly like all the other threads?...ATI vs. nVidia and the requisite mud slinging.
 

Piano Man

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
3,370
0
76
I think its a good thing as it will hopefully swing business back to ATI. nVidia still has a sizable market lead of ATI, so anything to even that out will be good for us. Still, if you're for the latest and greatest, regardless of price, nVidia is still the way to go. But I've always been the "I want a single card solution for <$200" customer, and ATI is definitely kicking butt in that segment.

Hopefully AMD can get some good tech in their CPU line as well, and force Intel to come down on their prices.

 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,650
1,512
126
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
Good for ATI to starve sales from NV and build reputation.

Tiger Direct's current top seller list:


1.
BFG GeForce GTX 280 OC 1GB P
2.
EVGA GeForce 9500 GT Video C
3.
XFX GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB P
4.
XFX GeForce 9600 GT Video Ca
5.
XFX Radeon HD 4870 XXX Editi
6.
BFG GeForce GTX 260 OC MAXCO
7.
Samsung 22" 3D Gaming LCD Mo
8.
Galaxy GeForce 9600 GT Video
9.
EVGA GeForce GTX 285 2048MB
10.
BFG GeForce 7600 GS OC 512MB

Yea, just for kicks I checked out Newegg.com's current top sellers. 23 use ATI chipsets and 35 use nVidia chipsets for all PCIe 2.0 graphics cards. The most popular are the 8800GTS, GTX 260, and 4850 1GB. Looks pretty even to me and it also looks like the average person spends $100-$150 right now on gaming graphics cards.
 

WaitingForNehalem

Platinum Member
Aug 24, 2008
2,497
0
71
Especially since you can buy a 22in LCD and 4850/GTX 250 class video card for around $300, and can reasonably expect to play modern games with very good framerates and even some AA and AF thrown in for good measure for at least the next year or so;

That's because there are no more PC FPS exclusives.
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Originally posted by: HOOfan 1
Originally posted by: brblx
this is probably going to turn into that other thread

What thread on the Videocard board doesn't end up sounding exactly like all the other threads?...ATI vs. nVidia and the requisite mud slinging.

I've noticed that too. Everything starts with someone saying something good about one company, then others land and start bashing that company, then wreckage comes and says something about how Nvidia owns the market share and so on until the thread is locked. Nice.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
I have never understood Derek's lust for the 4670. It gets blown out of the water by the 9600GT and costs almost the same amount of money($7 difference between the cheapest 512MB 4670 and an OC BFG 9600GT- they aren't that close performance wise). He has done everything in his power to try and shield the 4670 from going head to head with the 9600GT- every other site compared them as they are obviously direct competitors. For some reason he states the 9600GTs are priced against the 4830s while a quick check of NewEgg shows that the 9800GTs are the ones at that price point- cheapest 9800GT is $5 more then the cheapest 4830. I'm not arguing that the 4830 doesn't give more bang for the buck at that price point, but it isn't going head to head with the 9600GT(the nV parts also tend to have decent bundles, but I can understand ignoring those).

The rest of the price points seem to be handled relatively well, but the only reason I know that is I checked them. Sadly, that seems to be a requirement when getting any buying reccomendation from AT lately :(
 

Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
0
Originally posted by: nitromullet
Originally posted by: Obsoleet
It is mediocre, they are on par with ATI. They are nothing exceptional anymore. You could say ATI is mediocre too (they are), but they aren't sitting with DX10.0 cards and trying to sell it as something special.

If they are both so mediocre, who makes a better gpu?

It's getting to the point everything on the market is pretty stale.
At the moment, ATI has the best offerings with tossing in DX10.1 + audio processing. I think from an engineering standpoint the Ars Technica crowd have always stood by ATI's engineering over Nvidia's (for hardware).

As far as sales charts, individual examples are ok but I think in the future ATI's surge will show up in marketshare increases. It always goes back and forth and one could say things will remain even as they pretty much always have (until Intel and AMD remove Nvidia's place from the market with Larrabee). Nvidia's scared and I think everyone here knows it. Their arrogant commentary has left a bad taste in my mouth. Considering the slow decline in driver quality over the years (it isn't at the level of Carmack's gold standard comments from years ago) and rather unappealing hardware compared to what ATIs been doing.

As for me, I've never been leaning this way towards ATI in my life.. having started with a 3dfx monster 3d and then moving to other 3dfx cards, then a few ATI and NV products that convinced me I was going to have better luck (at the time) with Nvidia... for the first time a lot of us are starting to be disillusioned with the almighty Nvidia.

It's just about high time to be moving towards ATI's lineup, they've got it figured out and overall have a better lineup... and will be first to market with DX11.
Debates on DX10.1 and other DX revisions are moot when performance is the same (or better bang/buck) and one chipset offers you more advanced hardware.

All the sophism in the world can't erase the fact one company has older, outdated hardware specs.

AMD is going to be a more stable ship longterm because Intel has a vested interest in keeping them alive and Nvidia is just a mouthy, fabless Intel-wannabe (or at least that's what their arrogance has truly made themselves out to be and it's not pretty). I'm not an AMD fan, or an anything-fan, just calling like I see it. My observations are too raw for most who would rather dance around it.