WOW, Microsoft has a real "winner" with WGA :s

[Stumps]

I was trying to diagnose a dodgy startup program and I thought I would use good ole trusty MSCONFIG.

I ran it and selected to disable Windows services and startup programs, just to see if the problem would appear when WINXP restarted.

so I restarted the PC and was greated at the Welcome Screen with the following message

"Windows Geniune Validation has detected hardware changes with your PC. You have 1 day to reactivate Windows. If you are recieving this message you could have a non-genuine copy of Windows XP Professional. Please contact Microsoft to purchase a new product key"

wow...Just WOW, what the fvck has Microsoft done now?
I always use geniune OEM Windows, purchased legally with hardware, I have never had any problems with Activating them and up to 30 minutes ago my windows was a fully functional and LEGALLY ACTIVATED operating system, other than the odd game(which I get copies off my friends to decide wether to buy or not, If I don't like them I don't keep them...I like the pretty boxes games come in) I legally own ALL of my software....I have paid thousand of dollars for...even little things like Winzip I have purchased.

Now I feel Like Microsoft is now trying to screw me over.....I angrly contacted Microsoft by phone and after a bit of a heated discussion had my PC activated again...

now I can't use on of my favorite tools anymore because of MS's fvck ups.

Nice one Microsoft...way to screw up people who do the right thing....I think that my next windows upgrade, I might just have to screw MS out of purchasing it.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Stumps
Nice one Microsoft...way to screw up people who do the right thing....I think that my next windows upgrade, I might just have to screw MS out of purchasing it.

If you're fed up with Microsoft and product activation, pirating their software isn't the answer. Use an alternative operating system if you want to make a statement.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: Stumps
Nice one Microsoft...way to screw up people who do the right thing....I think that my next windows upgrade, I might just have to screw MS out of purchasing it.

If you're fed up with Microsoft and product activation, pirating their software isn't the answer. Use an alternative operating system if you want to make a statement.

Windows itself isn't the problem, it's Microsoft and their bullsh!t Activation and WGA.

I like Windows XP, but this WGA crap is starting to get out of hand...the MS operator knew how my PC was setup and what other PC's were connected to it on my network.
Thats how I got it reactivated, he couldn't find the hardware changes that WGA was complaining about...

This worries me, if MS can tell how my PC is setup and the configuration of the other PC's it is connected to on my LAN, what else do they know about me....sure I do register my software, I want the tech support for it, but it starts to go to far when the operator can list the specs of the 8 other PC's and their product keys over the phone.

 

[Jeff7]

Sure I do register my software, I want the tech support for it, but it starts to go to far when the operator can list the specs of the 8 other PC's and their product keys over the phone.

Are you serious about this?

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: Stumps
Nice one Microsoft...way to screw up people who do the right thing....I think that my next windows upgrade, I might just have to screw MS out of purchasing it.

If you're fed up with Microsoft and product activation, pirating their software isn't the answer. Use an alternative operating system if you want to make a statement.

Statement? Sure, you first show me an alternative OS that can run all the software I need to use. Even if pirating isn't the answer as you claim - it's sure as heck looking like the much smarter way to go.

Really, I thought the point of WGA was not so much to twart the pirates, but to inform the unknowing innocent that are using pirated software. See, the "pirates" just never allowed WGA to be installed in the first place - while most all paying customers are receiving the wonderful benifits of daily background internet chats with Microsoft, and periodic phone calls to reps pleading for permission to use the computer.

What are these daily chats WGA has with MS servers doing to help stop piracy? Not a darn thing.

 

[kamper]

Ah, good ol' digital inconvenience management...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: Stumps
Nice one Microsoft...way to screw up people who do the right thing....I think that my next windows upgrade, I might just have to screw MS out of purchasing it.

If you're fed up with Microsoft and product activation, pirating their software isn't the answer. Use an alternative operating system if you want to make a statement.

Statement? Sure, you first show me an alternative OS that can run all the software I need to use. Even if pirating isn't the answer as you claim - it's sure as heck looking like the much smarter way to go.

Really, I thought the point of WGA was not so much to twart the pirates, but to inform the unknowing innocent that are using pirated software. See, the "pirates" just never allowed WGA to be installed in the first place - while most all paying customers are receiving the wonderful benifits of daily background internet chats with Microsoft, and periodic phone calls to reps pleading for permission to use the computer.

What are these daily chats WGA has with MS servers doing to help stop piracy? Not a darn thing.

What software do you need?

 

[bendixG15]

Thanks for the post

 

[P0ldy]

Obviously it's time you get Vista... most secure OS ever, and twice the annoyances.

I agree with n0c. What software do you *need*? (a serious question.)

 

[Smilin]

So you had one or more services that were improperly emulating a hardware device and when you disabled them enough of a hardware change occured that you triggered activation?

You know what item it was?

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Sure I do register my software, I want the tech support for it, but it starts to go to far when the operator can list the specs of the 8 other PC's and their product keys over the phone.

Are you serious about this?

Actually that disturbs me as well.

HOWEVER...he probably has eight other copies of windows as well...and if they are registered under his name, they should easily be able to make the connection.

Either way I find it a little un nerving that they want it... What I would be a little more disturbed is if they knew I had computers with Linux hooked up to the network. Because then it would show that they actually do probe to see if there is a LAN, and then what computers are connected rather than a simple "there are 8 Microsoft Pcs registered under his name"

 

[nova2]

perhaps they've made some changes to get even more data, but this is news from back in 2003

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Feb/gee20030226018826.htm

 

[Markbnj]

I had that same problem after messing around with my overclock. Fortunately (and unlike the first time it happened six months ago) just reactivating over the net worked and I had no further messages.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Sure I do register my software, I want the tech support for it, but it starts to go to far when the operator can list the specs of the 8 other PC's and their product keys over the phone.

Are you serious about this?

Actually that disturbs me as well.

HOWEVER...he probably has eight other copies of windows as well...and if they are registered under his name, they should easily be able to make the connection.

Either way I find it a little un nerving that they want it... What I would be a little more disturbed is if they knew I had computers with Linux hooked up to the network. Because then it would show that they actually do probe to see if there is a LAN, and then what computers are connected rather than a simple "there are 8 Microsoft Pcs registered under his name"

I have 8(I have 12, but I'm only using 8 ATM, all were purchased legally and are genuine) individual licences for WinXP, they are all registered. it wasn't a simple "oh I see you have 8 PC's running WinXP registered in your name" it was" according to our records you have the following PC's(lists all of the computers names on the network) with the following configurations (lists the major hardware components of each, in order of each machine) with the following products key(lists each PC name followed by it's product key and date of installion).

I asked the operator how they got that info, because even when I register I don't get asked that infomation, only my name, address, ocupation and a few other pointless details.
the operator informed me that this info is collected at activation, this is when the arguement really started to get interesting...I informed the operator that my pc a not connected via then network, nor the network is setup up for them at the time I do activation(which is right after WinXP finishes it's instalation).

There was a breif pause and then the operator tried to tell me that it is collected when the first update (Windows update installer)is applied...I said wrong again for the same reasons...the PC's ARE only connected once they are 100% finished(this saves have a fvck up on the network bring the others down)...the phone call then switched to a computer operator which spat out the activation code and hung up...

your guess is as good as mine as to how they collect this info, but next you have to activate your windows, ask the operator what info they have about your setup...I garrantee you will be surprised.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Smilin
So you had one or more services that were improperly emulating a hardware device and when you disabled them enough of a hardware change occured that you triggered activation?

You know what item it was?

I do use software emulated hardware (Midi synthesisers for GM/GS work)..the rest I believe is hardware, unless the NF3 board I'm using has something on it that is primarly software based.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Stumps
I have 8(I have 12, but I'm only using 8 ATM, all were purchased legally and are genuine) individual licences for WinXP, they are all registered. it wasn't a simple "oh I see you have 8 PC's running WinXP registered in your name" it was" according to our records you have the following PC's(lists all of the computers names on the network) with the following configurations (lists the major hardware components of each, in order of each machine) with the following products key(lists each PC name followed by it's product key and date of installion).

I asked the operator how they got that info, because even when I register I don't get asked that infomation, only my name, address, ocupation and a few other pointless details.
the operator informed me that this info is collected at activation, this is when the arguement really started to get interesting...I informed the operator that my pc a not connected via then network, nor the network is setup up for them at the time I do activation(which is right after WinXP finishes it's instalation).

There was a breif pause and then the operator tried to tell me that it is collected when the first update (Windows update installer)is applied...I said wrong again for the same reasons...the PC's ARE only connected once they are 100% finished(this saves have a fvck up on the network bring the others down)...the phone call then switched to a computer operator which spat out the activation code and hung up...

your guess is as good as mine as to how they collect this info, but next you have to activate your windows, ask the operator what info they have about your setup...I garrantee you will be surprised.

Now was what you said true? Is that how you really setup your network? If you lied on your part...well then we aren't sure.

But if that is what you said, then WOW. As for activating Windows...I'm using a education version through my ICS friend but I haven't loaded it up in alteast six months or seriously used it in the past year or so I don't think any of those patches are applied....and hopefully I won't have to in the future

It would be nice to hear the opinions of some of the Microsoft workers here, as I know there are a few...including some of the guys in this thread (assuming they are qualified to speak a little bit...and if not at least give their personal opinion)

 

[Stumps]

yes it is how I set up my network, sure it takes longer but for me it lets me do each PC seperate so I can make sure it is working 100% before I connect it up....although once they are hooked up and running if any new updates(like WGA) or programs are installed, I apply them to every machine on the network to save any hassles of doing them seperate.

everything I have stated is 100% true and I would like to hear from some MS employees as well...my question to them would be "PLEASE EXPLAIN?"

 

[stash]

I don't want to say you are a liar, since I have no way to verify what you are telling us, so I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt. That said, Windows activation does NOT send any of the information you say the operator gave you. Activation sends a hash of the hardware on your system, but there is no way for someone with that hash to figure out exactly what components you had or the machine name.

This article discusses exactly what is sent when you activate: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xpactiv.mspx

You will notice that the article shows that there is no way to determine the components in your PC, nor the names of your PCs from activating.

WGA sends the following information, and it is not hashed, because it is used for statistical purposes.

* Windows product key
* PC manufacturer
* Operating System version
* PID/SID
* BIOS information (make, version, date)
* BIOS MD5 Checksum
* User locale (language setting for displaying Windows)
* System locale (language version of the operating system)
* Office product key (if validating Office)
* Hard drive serial number

Again, there is no PII (personally identifiable information) sent here. And the 'phone home' thing that has been getting a lot of play in the media is a complete misnomer by the media. It does not phone home at all, all it does is check to see if there is an updated version of the WGA bits. No information whatsoever is sent from the client to Microsoft during the daily ping.

Microsoft takes privacy seriously, and meaures are taken to prevent PII from ever being transmitted. If you believe that PII has been transmitted (which again, does not appear to be likely), I would suggest posting at the WGA forum. Those guys can answer definitively about the mechanics of WGA. But I can guarantee you that they will tell you that no PII should ever be sent, and if you have evidence to the contrary, they will take it very seriously.

http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/default.aspx?ForumGroupID=125&SiteID=25

 

[Markbnj]

I asked the operator how they got that info, because even when I register I don't get asked that infomation, only my name, address, ocupation and a few other pointless details.
the operator informed me that this info is collected at activation, this is when the arguement really started to get interesting...I informed the operator that my pc a not connected via then network, nor the network is setup up for them at the time I do activation(which is right after WinXP finishes it's instalation).

You can't activate unless you are connected to the network or call them with the key at install time.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

I asked the operator how they got that info, because even when I register I don't get asked that infomation, only my name, address, ocupation and a few other pointless details.
the operator informed me that this info is collected at activation, this is when the arguement really started to get interesting...I informed the operator that my pc a not connected via then network, nor the network is setup up for them at the time I do activation(which is right after WinXP finishes it's instalation).

You can't activate unless you are connected to the network or call them with the key at install time.

I think you missed the point....I setup and activate my PC's BEFORE I hook them up to MY home network...this is the info that MS isn't supposed to have but do...they could give me details about my Private home network...and this is what is worring me...they shouldn't have this info.

 

[stash]

they could give me details about my Private home network...and this is what is worring me...they shouldn't have this info.

Again, I would recommend taking this up with the WGA folks in the WGA forum I posted.

 

[Kibbo86]

Originally posted by: stash

they could give me details about my Private home network...and this is what is worring me...they shouldn't have this info.

Again, I would recommend taking this up with the WGA folks in the WGA forum I posted.

And link us to the conversation. I'm kinda curious about this.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: Stumps
Nice one Microsoft...way to screw up people who do the right thing....I think that my next windows upgrade, I might just have to screw MS out of purchasing it.

If you're fed up with Microsoft and product activation, pirating their software isn't the answer. Use an alternative operating system if you want to make a statement.

Couldn't agree more...well said :thumbsup:

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Sure I do register my software, I want the tech support for it, but it starts to go to far when the operator can list the specs of the 8 other PC's and their product keys over the phone.

Are you serious about this?

Actually that disturbs me as well.

HOWEVER...he probably has eight other copies of windows as well...and if they are registered under his name, they should easily be able to make the connection.

Either way I find it a little un nerving that they want it... What I would be a little more disturbed is if they knew I had computers with Linux hooked up to the network. Because then it would show that they actually do probe to see if there is a LAN, and then what computers are connected rather than a simple "there are 8 Microsoft Pcs registered under his name"

I have 8(I have 12, but I'm only using 8 ATM, all were purchased legally and are genuine) individual licences for WinXP, they are all registered. it wasn't a simple "oh I see you have 8 PC's running WinXP registered in your name" it was" according to our records you have the following PC's(lists all of the computers names on the network) with the following configurations (lists the major hardware components of each, in order of each machine) with the following products key(lists each PC name followed by it's product key and date of installion).

I asked the operator how they got that info, because even when I register I don't get asked that infomation, only my name, address, ocupation and a few other pointless details.
the operator informed me that this info is collected at activation, this is when the arguement really started to get interesting...I informed the operator that my pc a not connected via then network, nor the network is setup up for them at the time I do activation(which is right after WinXP finishes it's instalation).

There was a breif pause and then the operator tried to tell me that it is collected when the first update (Windows update installer)is applied...I said wrong again for the same reasons...the PC's ARE only connected once they are 100% finished(this saves have a fvck up on the network bring the others down)...the phone call then switched to a computer operator which spat out the activation code and hung up...

your guess is as good as mine as to how they collect this info, but next you have to activate your windows, ask the operator what info they have about your setup...I garrantee you will be surprised.

I'm having a hard time believing this part. It would take several minutes for the operator to read off that much information (product keys are how many characters?), and would be of no benefit to either party. I'm sure the operators have max call times instituted by MS as well.

I own 6 XP licenses, and have had to reactivate numerous times over the phone. Not once have I ever had to have a "heated discussion" with them. Just calmly explain the situation, and confirm that this is the only pc running that license. Usually I talk to the operator for less than 2 minutes.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: Markbnj

I asked the operator how they got that info, because even when I register I don't get asked that infomation, only my name, address, ocupation and a few other pointless details.
the operator informed me that this info is collected at activation, this is when the arguement really started to get interesting...I informed the operator that my pc a not connected via then network, nor the network is setup up for them at the time I do activation(which is right after WinXP finishes it's instalation).

You can't activate unless you are connected to the network or call them with the key at install time.

I think you missed the point....I setup and activate my PC's BEFORE I hook them up to MY home network...this is the info that MS isn't supposed to have but do...they could give me details about my Private home network...and this is what is worring me...they shouldn't have this info.

So how exactly do you activate these copies of windows? I assume you either Phone in for activation, you have multiple independent internet connections (dialup maybe), you disconnect your whole lan from your internet connection and jack it directly into the new machine, or you connect your new pc to the lan and activate it while it's still connected to the other machines. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out your whine's major flaw if it's the latter.