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Wow. Bush is finally using common sense in regards to Iran

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,505
3,008
126
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We will judge all life by what voice we listen to with ourselves. Put simply we will either listen to the Devil who will tell us to mistrust every one, to strike them first before they strike us, to devalue the enemy to give ourselves the moral permission to exterminate him, or we will listen to the voice of God who tells us that the Kingdom of heaven is within, and that the aim of man should be to manifest that kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven. We are gods who were put down an children and made to hate ourselves. We are suffering from Stockholm syndrome and have aligned ourselves with the devil, or we try to resist and hold to what is sacred.

We are paranoids who long for the good but are terrified to trust because we trusted as children and were killed. We have all been through a concentration camp of now unimagined evil because all memory has been repressed, but our fears come out in our nightmares and things that lurk under the bed. That evil that happened to us long ago is our there hiding in the Mullah's beard. Poor humanity, so sweet and so deeply sick.

For humanity to survive, somewhere somehow some attempt will have to be made for each of us to find a way to heal. All the violence of the world is only all the violence that is within each of us. May you find a way to confront your own evil.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
You're driven by logic and humanity, they're driven by their Pan-Arabian respect (although they aren't Arabs) and Islam. What kind of common denominator do you have with them? It would be like explaining your values - Love of mankind is among them, if I understood you correct - to a Martian who seeks to destroy your planet.

Your rather advanced ideas have place in a modern society that seeks to prosper; Definitely NOT in the Iranian regime.
We they, us them, you are what I described in my post. We have to act with violence because They are bad. We are all the same. We and they are all the same. You tell yourself that they are worthless because it's what you feel about yourself. They aren't Martians and that is the whole point. And for your information the Martians are millions of years more morally advanced than we are. It is us who seek to destroy our planet. We have to because we feel so bad. We don't deserve to live on this heaven. Open your eyes.
What kind of patronization is that? Are you denying the difference of their religion and culture? They sure wouldn't want to hear that "we are all the same", especially not when it comes from an infidel.

Look at the goals of the Iranian regime; Are they same as yours? Do you cherish the same values? Do you share the same religion, beliefes, language? Other than being humanoid-like in form, what do you have in common with them?

It's not that they are bad in absolute terms. They are very bad for US, and like it or not, you reside in the free world, which puts you firmly in the "us" and not in the "them".

You have to act with violence because turning the other cheek simply doesn't work when it comes to radicals with WMD.

The lack of real, tangible war, near your home, has clearly made some people - you included - forget their survival instincts. You put the good of your enemy with your own, on the same level, and you don't even realize he's an enemy.

Would you deal with the Nazis in the same way you're suggesting we deal with the Iranians - i.e. "We're all humans, they're not an enemy, we basically want the same thing"?
Nazi Germany was treated that way, with submissive respect and peaceful negotiations. After people the likes of Chamberlain declared ?Peace for our time? millions of people died.

It could have been prevented before it got worse, history is repeating itself. We will allow the upcoming war to grow horrific before we realize we must take a stand and condemn their violence. Only by the time we do it the nuclear weapons will have already stuck us.

North Korea proved to the world that we will no longer stand in their way of neutralizing us. Iran and Venezuela are well on their way to achieving that goal all because we are allowing it.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We will judge all life by what voice we listen to with ourselves. Put simply we will either listen to the Devil who will tell us to mistrust every one, to strike them first before they strike us, to devalue the enemy to give ourselves the moral permission to exterminate him, or we will listen to the voice of God who tells us that the Kingdom of heaven is within, and that the aim of man should be to manifest that kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven. We are gods who were put down an children and made to hate ourselves. We are suffering from Stockholm syndrome and have aligned ourselves with the devil, or we try to resist and hold to what is sacred.

We are paranoids who long for the good but are terrified to trust because we trusted as children and were killed. We have all been through a concentration camp of now unimagined evil because all memory has been repressed, but our fears come out in our nightmares and things that lurk under the bed. That evil that happened to us long ago is our there hiding in the Mullah's beard. Poor humanity, so sweet and so deeply sick.

For humanity to survive, somewhere somehow some attempt will have to be made for each of us to find a way to heal. All the violence of the world is only all the violence that is within each of us. May you find a way to confront your own evil.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
You're driven by logic and humanity, they're driven by their Pan-Arabian respect (although they aren't Arabs) and Islam. What kind of common denominator do you have with them? It would be like explaining your values - Love of mankind is among them, if I understood you correct - to a Martian who seeks to destroy your planet.

Your rather advanced ideas have place in a modern society that seeks to prosper; Definitely NOT in the Iranian regime.
We they, us them, you are what I described in my post. We have to act with violence because They are bad. We are all the same. We and they are all the same. You tell yourself that they are worthless because it's what you feel about yourself. They aren't Martians and that is the whole point. And for your information the Martians are millions of years more morally advanced than we are. It is us who seek to destroy our planet. We have to because we feel so bad. We don't deserve to live on this heaven. Open your eyes.
What kind of patronization is that? Are you denying the difference of their religion and culture? They sure wouldn't want to hear that "we are all the same", especially not when it comes from an infidel.

Look at the goals of the Iranian regime; Are they same as yours? Do you cherish the same values? Do you share the same religion, beliefes, language? Other than being humanoid-like in form, what do you have in common with them?

It's not that they are bad in absolute terms. They are very bad for US, and like it or not, you reside in the free world, which puts you firmly in the "us" and not in the "them".

You have to act with violence because turning the other cheek simply doesn't work when it comes to radicals with WMD.

The lack of real, tangible war, near your home, has clearly made some people - you included - forget their survival instincts. You put the good of your enemy with your own, on the same level, and you don't even realize he's an enemy.

Would you deal with the Nazis in the same way you're suggesting we deal with the Iranians - i.e. "We're all humans, they're not an enemy, we basically want the same thing"?
Nazi Germany was treated that way, with submissive respect and peaceful negotiations. After people the likes of Chamberlain declared ?Peace for our time? millions of people died.

It could have been prevented before it got worse, history is repeating itself. We will allow the upcoming war to grow horrific before we realize we must take a stand and condemn their violence. Only by the time we do it the nuclear weapons will have already stuck us.

North Korea proved to the world that we will no longer stand in their way of neutralizing us. Iran and Venezuela are well on their way to achieving that goal all because we are allowing it.
North Korea proved that when a made man gets nukes nothing happened. Just like when Iran gets nukes nothing will happen.
 

UptheMiddle

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
235
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: KHudson30
A military option will be the only option with this guy. He thinks he is the guy to bring the end of the world....The UN won't do anything about them.
People see what is unknowable about others what they know, but hide, about themselves. You are tremendously mistrustful of yourself is what I hear.
This ridiculous post amazes me....an attempt to portray oneself as a philosopher. Must be an esteemed member of the failing US educational system.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,512
3,264
126
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: KHudson30
A military option will be the only option with this guy. He thinks he is the guy to bring the end of the world....The UN won't do anything about them.
People see what is unknowable about others what they know, but hide, about themselves. You are tremendously mistrustful of yourself is what I hear.
This ridiculous post amazes me....an attempt to portray oneself as a philosopher. Must be an esteemed member of the failing US educational system.
Actually the post is amazing to you because you are ignorant and uneducated. The facts I gave are known to even the most rudimentary student of psychology and have nothing at all to do with philosophy. Look up the phenomenon called projection.
 

UptheMiddle

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
235
0
0
Perhaps the US can leverage your sweeping knowledge of psychology to bring about the end of terrorism? What an asset you must be!! But then again, taking you out of the classroom would be akin to taking a fish out of water.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,512
3,264
126
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Perhaps the US can leverage your sweeping knowledge of psychology to bring about the end of terrorism? What an asset you must be!! But then again, taking you out of the classroom would be akin to taking a fish out of water.
There isn't a classroom anywhere that teaches what I know, my dear friend. To know what I know you have to feel. There isn't anywhere an academic setting that does that, at least that I know of, which I'll admit isn't much, since I know nothing of classrooms. But you do succeed in imagining you know something about me, like I'm an academic, that shows you to be a fool, even though only I really know it. You may have much schooling but have not learned how to think.
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
1,408
0
0
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We will judge all life by what voice we listen to with ourselves. Put simply we will either listen to the Devil who will tell us to mistrust every one, to strike them first before they strike us, to devalue the enemy to give ourselves the moral permission to exterminate him, or we will listen to the voice of God who tells us that the Kingdom of heaven is within, and that the aim of man should be to manifest that kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven. We are gods who were put down an children and made to hate ourselves. We are suffering from Stockholm syndrome and have aligned ourselves with the devil, or we try to resist and hold to what is sacred.

We are paranoids who long for the good but are terrified to trust because we trusted as children and were killed. We have all been through a concentration camp of now unimagined evil because all memory has been repressed, but our fears come out in our nightmares and things that lurk under the bed. That evil that happened to us long ago is our there hiding in the Mullah's beard. Poor humanity, so sweet and so deeply sick.

For humanity to survive, somewhere somehow some attempt will have to be made for each of us to find a way to heal. All the violence of the world is only all the violence that is within each of us. May you find a way to confront your own evil.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
You're driven by logic and humanity, they're driven by their Pan-Arabian respect (although they aren't Arabs) and Islam. What kind of common denominator do you have with them? It would be like explaining your values - Love of mankind is among them, if I understood you correct - to a Martian who seeks to destroy your planet.

Your rather advanced ideas have place in a modern society that seeks to prosper; Definitely NOT in the Iranian regime.
We they, us them, you are what I described in my post. We have to act with violence because They are bad. We are all the same. We and they are all the same. You tell yourself that they are worthless because it's what you feel about yourself. They aren't Martians and that is the whole point. And for your information the Martians are millions of years more morally advanced than we are. It is us who seek to destroy our planet. We have to because we feel so bad. We don't deserve to live on this heaven. Open your eyes.
What kind of patronization is that? Are you denying the difference of their religion and culture? They sure wouldn't want to hear that "we are all the same", especially not when it comes from an infidel.

Look at the goals of the Iranian regime; Are they same as yours? Do you cherish the same values? Do you share the same religion, beliefes, language? Other than being humanoid-like in form, what do you have in common with them?

It's not that they are bad in absolute terms. They are very bad for US, and like it or not, you reside in the free world, which puts you firmly in the "us" and not in the "them".

You have to act with violence because turning the other cheek simply doesn't work when it comes to radicals with WMD.

The lack of real, tangible war, near your home, has clearly made some people - you included - forget their survival instincts. You put the good of your enemy with your own, on the same level, and you don't even realize he's an enemy.

Would you deal with the Nazis in the same way you're suggesting we deal with the Iranians - i.e. "We're all humans, they're not an enemy, we basically want the same thing"?
Nazi Germany was treated that way, with submissive respect and peaceful negotiations. After people the likes of Chamberlain declared ?Peace for our time? millions of people died.

It could have been prevented before it got worse, history is repeating itself. We will allow the upcoming war to grow horrific before we realize we must take a stand and condemn their violence. Only by the time we do it the nuclear weapons will have already stuck us.

North Korea proved to the world that we will no longer stand in their way of neutralizing us. Iran and Venezuela are well on their way to achieving that goal all because we are allowing it.
North Korea proved that when a made man gets nukes nothing happened. Just like when Iran gets nukes nothing will happen.
Not true at all. North Korea proved that when they got nukes, they didn't do much bad with them, besides having the improved influence, at least until the present. Show me anyone at all that thinks that oh man, is it great that North Korea got the nuke or what? Same with Iran. If they could do stupid stuff like, say, bomb Israel, and get away with it, they would sooo do it sooo fast. Just because they won't, at least for the time being, doesn't mean that it is good for them to have them. When you have the ability to kill millions of people with the motive to kill millions of people, the only restraint being a higher power (the US for example), I think that you find the situation very, very bad.

As for all the stuff from UptheMiddle, come on now, no matter your religion or beliefs or whatever, you can't really sit there and tell me that there is no universal good. Can you imagine a perfect world where nobody has nukes, nobody wants to kill each other etc.? If you can, then there is a possibility for that world to exist, in fact it would if people didn't have so much hate. No matter if people screw up the universal good, it is still there, and you recognize it, you just don't realize it.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: themusgrat
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We will judge all life by what voice we listen to with ourselves. Put simply we will either listen to the Devil who will tell us to mistrust every one, to strike them first before they strike us, to devalue the enemy to give ourselves the moral permission to exterminate him, or we will listen to the voice of God who tells us that the Kingdom of heaven is within, and that the aim of man should be to manifest that kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven. We are gods who were put down an children and made to hate ourselves. We are suffering from Stockholm syndrome and have aligned ourselves with the devil, or we try to resist and hold to what is sacred.

We are paranoids who long for the good but are terrified to trust because we trusted as children and were killed. We have all been through a concentration camp of now unimagined evil because all memory has been repressed, but our fears come out in our nightmares and things that lurk under the bed. That evil that happened to us long ago is our there hiding in the Mullah's beard. Poor humanity, so sweet and so deeply sick.

For humanity to survive, somewhere somehow some attempt will have to be made for each of us to find a way to heal. All the violence of the world is only all the violence that is within each of us. May you find a way to confront your own evil.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
You're driven by logic and humanity, they're driven by their Pan-Arabian respect (although they aren't Arabs) and Islam. What kind of common denominator do you have with them? It would be like explaining your values - Love of mankind is among them, if I understood you correct - to a Martian who seeks to destroy your planet.

Your rather advanced ideas have place in a modern society that seeks to prosper; Definitely NOT in the Iranian regime.
We they, us them, you are what I described in my post. We have to act with violence because They are bad. We are all the same. We and they are all the same. You tell yourself that they are worthless because it's what you feel about yourself. They aren't Martians and that is the whole point. And for your information the Martians are millions of years more morally advanced than we are. It is us who seek to destroy our planet. We have to because we feel so bad. We don't deserve to live on this heaven. Open your eyes.
What kind of patronization is that? Are you denying the difference of their religion and culture? They sure wouldn't want to hear that "we are all the same", especially not when it comes from an infidel.

Look at the goals of the Iranian regime; Are they same as yours? Do you cherish the same values? Do you share the same religion, beliefes, language? Other than being humanoid-like in form, what do you have in common with them?

It's not that they are bad in absolute terms. They are very bad for US, and like it or not, you reside in the free world, which puts you firmly in the "us" and not in the "them".

You have to act with violence because turning the other cheek simply doesn't work when it comes to radicals with WMD.

The lack of real, tangible war, near your home, has clearly made some people - you included - forget their survival instincts. You put the good of your enemy with your own, on the same level, and you don't even realize he's an enemy.

Would you deal with the Nazis in the same way you're suggesting we deal with the Iranians - i.e. "We're all humans, they're not an enemy, we basically want the same thing"?
Nazi Germany was treated that way, with submissive respect and peaceful negotiations. After people the likes of Chamberlain declared ?Peace for our time? millions of people died.

It could have been prevented before it got worse, history is repeating itself. We will allow the upcoming war to grow horrific before we realize we must take a stand and condemn their violence. Only by the time we do it the nuclear weapons will have already stuck us.

North Korea proved to the world that we will no longer stand in their way of neutralizing us. Iran and Venezuela are well on their way to achieving that goal all because we are allowing it.
North Korea proved that when a made man gets nukes nothing happened. Just like when Iran gets nukes nothing will happen.
Not true at all. North Korea proved that when they got nukes, they didn't do much bad with them, besides having the improved influence, at least until the present. Show me anyone at all that thinks that oh man, is it great that North Korea got the nuke or what? Same with Iran. If they could do stupid stuff like, say, bomb Israel, and get away with it, they would sooo do it sooo fast. Just because they won't, at least for the time being, doesn't mean that it is good for them to have them. When you have the ability to kill millions of people with the motive to kill millions of people, the only restraint being a higher power (the US for example), I think that you find the situation very, very bad.

As for all the stuff from UptheMiddle, come on now, no matter your religion or beliefs or whatever, you can't really sit there and tell me that there is no universal good. Can you imagine a perfect world where nobody has nukes, nobody wants to kill each other etc.? If you can, then there is a possibility for that world to exist, in fact it would if people didn't have so much hate. No matter if people screw up the universal good, it is still there, and you recognize it, you just don't realize it.
Yup all that BS and yet still nothing happened.
 

UptheMiddle

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
235
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: KHudson30
A military option will be the only option with this guy. He thinks he is the guy to bring the end of the world....The UN won't do anything about them.
People see what is unknowable about others what they know, but hide, about themselves. You are tremendously mistrustful of yourself is what I hear.
This ridiculous post amazes me....an attempt to portray oneself as a philosopher. Must be an esteemed member of the failing US educational system.
Actually the post is amazing to you because you are ignorant and uneducated. The facts I gave are known to even the most rudimentary student of psychology and have nothing at all to do with philosophy. Look up the phenomenon called projection.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Perhaps the US can leverage your sweeping knowledge of psychology to bring about the end of terrorism? What an asset you must be!! But then again, taking you out of the classroom would be akin to taking a fish out of water.
There isn't a classroom anywhere that teaches what I know, my dear friend. To know what I know you have to feel. There isn't anywhere an academic setting that does that, at least that I know of, which I'll admit isn't much, since I know nothing of classrooms. But you do succeed in imagining you know something about me, like I'm an academic, that shows you to be a fool, even though only I really know it. You may have much schooling but have not learned how to think.
Moonbeam, it seems as though you didn't appreciate my making assumptions of you. This is very similiar to how I felt when reading your reply to KHudson30's post. From my somewhat limited readings within these forums, it seems as though you've done this on more than one occasion. Just bear in mind how it feels when broad statements and/or inferences are made regarding another person that you really don't know.
And the guy that "hasn't learned how to think" may very well be the guy who provides the solution to wiring your home in a manner that allows you to live safely in it for the next 30 years. Or the mechanic who fixes a faulty component on that Northwest jet which delivers you safely from one point to another, etc. Yours is not the intellect that keeps this nation running.

 

imported_nocturne

Senior member
Jun 21, 2005
567
0
0
too little too late...

Or best oppurtunity to 'negotiate' with Iran was before invading Iraq. They were 'eager' to serve the US, but bush wouldn't give them the time of day.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,512
3,264
126
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: KHudson30
A military option will be the only option with this guy. He thinks he is the guy to bring the end of the world....The UN won't do anything about them.
People see what is unknowable about others what they know, but hide, about themselves. You are tremendously mistrustful of yourself is what I hear.
This ridiculous post amazes me....an attempt to portray oneself as a philosopher. Must be an esteemed member of the failing US educational system.
Actually the post is amazing to you because you are ignorant and uneducated. The facts I gave are known to even the most rudimentary student of psychology and have nothing at all to do with philosophy. Look up the phenomenon called projection.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: UptheMiddle
Perhaps the US can leverage your sweeping knowledge of psychology to bring about the end of terrorism? What an asset you must be!! But then again, taking you out of the classroom would be akin to taking a fish out of water.
There isn't a classroom anywhere that teaches what I know, my dear friend. To know what I know you have to feel. There isn't anywhere an academic setting that does that, at least that I know of, which I'll admit isn't much, since I know nothing of classrooms. But you do succeed in imagining you know something about me, like I'm an academic, that shows you to be a fool, even though only I really know it. You may have much schooling but have not learned how to think.
Moonbeam, it seems as though you didn't appreciate my making assumptions of you. This is very similiar to how I felt when reading your reply to KHudson30's post. From my somewhat limited readings within these forums, it seems as though you've done this on more than one occasion. Just bear in mind how it feels when broad statements and/or inferences are made regarding another person that you really don't know.
And the guy that "hasn't learned how to think" may very well be the guy who provides the solution to wiring your home in a manner that allows you to live safely in it for the next 30 years. Or the mechanic who fixes a faulty component on that Northwest jet which delivers you safely from one point to another, etc. Yours is not the intellect that keeps this nation running.
I fully expect you to make assumptions about me. I know you will make assumptions about me which is why I almost never provide anything personal about myself in my posts. I try to keep my mirror as clean as I can so you can see only yourself there. I know how you are psychologically because we are all the same, but what you did is make assumptions about my actual life circumstances which is pure incorrect assumption on your part and this is why, regardless of your level of education I accused you of not being able to think. It is just plain silly to imply what is just your imaginative guess, especially so since what I say and what can be found in a classroom are far far apart, in my opinion. Now, also, you are imagining I'm not an electrician or a flight mechanic or even have no respect for such folk. I speak of non thinking as the belief in ones own absurd assumptions. Try not to do that, please, for your own sake. Learn who you are and you will know everyone, but not as to details and the particulars of their life. You will know what makes them tick.
 

UptheMiddle

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
235
0
0
Nothing different that what you did to me ("uneducated...", etc). You're "not learned how to think" statement was equally as rich.

Saying that we are all the same psychologically is an enormous stretch. The mental processes of religious fanatics, extremists, thieves, assassins, etc, differ from what we would consider 'normal'. Gender certainly plays a role, as do other life-factors such as environment.

In short (too late), I strongly disagree with this statement that you made: "Learn who you are and you will know everyone".

 

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